Thread: The depletion of imagination

I think you're right

TV kills imagination like nothing else in human history. And the problem with TV is inherent in the technology itself - it doesn't matter what the content is. It is a 'push' technology where you sit back and the thing pushes the content at you. Sure you can flick between this channel and that, but at the end of the day you have virtually no choice. You don't engage your imagination when you watch TV because you don't get a chance. You are already doing enough processing in your brain as you turn the bright dots into meaningful data so that the content is absorbed unfiltered.

Why do they call them programs? Because you are being programmed by someone. Every program has an inherent bias and, as such, cannot be objective. They are always subjective. Brainwashing if you will. The influencing machine is designed soley to brainwash you - for good or bad. And how much entertainment does a person need anyway?

I think PC technology has some fundemental differences. It is essentially a 'pull' technology where you pull what you want and even push your own media onto it. The internet is a prime example of this - although there are obviously a lot of marketing people (commercial and political) vying for your eyeballs on here also. But, being democratic, I think it has more to offer (in the way of developing imagination and innovation) than TV ever will. The big networks don't do democracy.

Gaming doesn't do much for your imagination, afterall you're just engaging with somebody elses imagination, not using your own.

Just my opinions of course....

Books are the way; all the way.
Nothing better to train imagination than reading a book; nothing better to train creativity than writing one.

Actually, if you are seeking to become a video game designer, or something in Multimedia, you are really into imagination more than you think.

After all, in order to take such classes, you have to learn how to draw really well, then the music, ADDIE, and more! Plus, being a multimedia designer is a lot like being in a Lucid dream, since there are no boundaries unless you assign them (for all we know, in private, Nintendo could have made Mario chase after Peach in one of the designs that was edited out, or maybe Pikachu secretly ...?s at night and hangs out with Haunter and Gengar), and you know when creating such is all in your mind, and thus it makes it much easier to do so.

What I am trying to say is Multimedia is pure imagination, and it can almost be considered a LD.

I think you missed his point nesgirl. I will agree, yes those that design the games have wonderful imaginations. However, those that play the games are "substituting" the designer's creativity for their own. As a result, they lose touch with their ability to create things, and as Howe said, just stare at the blank canvas.

I think I have a better than average creative ability, and that daydreaming is a good way to keep the imagination alive.

Originally posted by Distant Clone
I think you missed his point nesgirl. I will agree, yes those that design the games have wonderful imaginations. However, those that play the games are "substituting" the designer's creativity for their own. As a result, they lose touch with their ability to create things, and as Howe said, just stare at the blank canvas.

I think I have a better than average creative ability, and that daydreaming is a good way to keep the imagination alive.

Well, yes in a way, but sometimes those games you play (if you are a video game designer) can help inspire you to make better ones.

Video games are really fun to do as a hobby, but I think it is far better to make one.

wow nesgirl...your ability to associate any topic with pokemon is amazing. But yes, video game designing is an entirely different matter, and it does take creativity, so I would agree with you on that.

However, I think that the point Howie was trying to make is how all teens are lazy! And that they can't think for themselves. Actually that's probably correct for the majority of teens.

Good thing you aren't part of this generation eh, Howetzer?

You forgot to mention obesity, lol.

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines
wow nesgirl...your ability to associate any topic with pokemon is amazing. * But yes, video game designing is an entirely different matter, and it does take creativity, so I would agree with you on that.

However, I think that the point Howie was trying to make is how all teens are lazy! *And that they can't think for themselves. *Actually that's probably correct for the majority of teens.

Good thing you aren't part of this generation eh, Howetzer?

You forgot to mention obesity, lol.

I wasn't associating this topic in particular with it. Mostly, I associate more with Fire Emblem.

Video Game playing might be considered lazy for some, but for designers, it is perfect, as they will see what exactly happens, and what reactions are used, etc.

I seriously find Multimedia to be a lot like a LD, since you can do anything you desire in it, and you know you are in your imagination.

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inverting_world_lines)</div>

wow nesgirl...your ability to associate any topic with pokemon is amazing. * But yes, video game designing is an entirely different matter, and it does take creativity, so I would agree with you on that.

However, I think that the point Howie was trying to make is how all teens are lazy! *And that they can't think for themselves. *Actually that's probably correct for the majority of teens.

Good thing you aren't part of this generation eh, Howetzer?

You forgot to mention obesity, lol.[/b]

I hate to label are youth like that. It is a generation of instant gratification. When people grow up in that environment, this is an inevitable outcome.
Also as pointed out, of coarse there are aspects of the video game world that bolsters creativity. The general idea was also stated.
<!--QuoteBegin-Distant clone
I think you missed his point nesgirl. I will agree, yes those that design the games have wonderful imaginations. However, those that play the games are "substituting" the designer's creativity for their own. As a result, they lose touch with their ability to create things, and as Howe said, just stare at the blank canvas.

I think I have a better than average creative ability, and that daydreaming is a good way to keep the imagination alive.

Most of you have made good points.
I was expecting to get ripped to shreds by viewing my point about this.

Originally posted by Merlock
Books are the way; all the way.
Nothing better to train imagination than reading a book; nothing better to train creativity than writing one.

Missed this one Merlock!

Just think. When we read a book. Is anyone ever satisfied with the movie afterward? No. Nobody is going to equal your own imagination.
You create, in a book what you want for a good portion. Ofcoarse a good writer is descriptive also. Which highlights your point about writing one too.

I was expecting to get ripped to shreds by viewing my point about this.[/b]

I don't think you are unjustified by saying these things about today's youth. I would definitely agree with what you've said. I may have been joking about it in my thread, but I think you're right. Creativity and imagination is something we could all use.

...and nesgirl...I've never played Fire Emblem, but I hear good things about it. You Nintendo fangirl you.

And yes, Multimedia requires imagination.

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines


...and nesgirl...I've never played Fire Emblem, but I hear good things about it. You Nintendo fangirl you.

And yes, Multimedia requires imagination.

Yeah, it is the coolest game, and most of my avatars are of Lyn from it, who is my fav VG character (and hopefully going to make it into SSBB).
Why do you think my username is nesgirl119 (I don't think you need to know the 119 part)

You'd better believe that. Do you think MM is a lot like a LD? In my opinion, MM=LD, so usually when I do it, I think I am dreaming.
After all, just like a LD, you can do whatever you desire. There are no limitations unless you assign them.

I beg to differ. A large amount of artistic appreciation is needed to fully appreciate a video game today. Level designs, story (especially for RPGs), and especially music are all things that are looked for in RPGs and a higher demand has increased over the years (the beeping noises of the Atari would not be accept for music today nor would a simple "save the princess" story in an RPG). Indeed, observing some of the landscapes and character designs in video games has inspired my current artistic works. I fail to see how witnessing what could be described as art could numb ones own creativity. When children are taken to an art museum my first concern isn't that they'll be attempted to "substitute the artists' creativity for their own".

Why do they call them programs? Because you are being programmed by someone. Every program has an inherent bias and, as such, cannot be objective. They are always subjective. Brainwashing if you will. The influencing machine is designed soley to brainwash you - for good or bad. And how much entertainment does a person need anyway?[/b]

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. There is no such thing as an objective work since not only is a piece of art being created by a human being who by very virtue of their species cannot see the world from a objective lens but not only that, all works of art are open to subjective interpretations by the viewers. I don’t quite understand what you were trying to say. How’d we go from the philosophical limits of human perception and creation to brainwashing?

The influencing machine is designed soley to brainwash you - for good or bad. And how much entertainment does a person need anyway?[/b]

Humans don’t need any form of entertainment but I don’t fancy we destroy all animation, literature, theater, and games either. What is the purpose?

Gaming doesn't do much for your imagination, afterall you're just engaging with somebody elses imagination, not using your own.[/b]

This could be said for all works of art and yet such things as the Sistine Chapel continue to inspire artists to this day.

I hate to label are youth like that. It is a generation of instant gratification. When people grow up in that environment, this is an inevitable outcome.[/b]

Since at least the times of Aristotle, people have always criticized and forecasted doom upon the next generation. If we are to trust this than we could all agree that every generation is a “generation of instant gratification” and sin. This is partly because there have always been ways to become instantly gratified from sex, to eating, and yes, videogames. This is far from a new trend and none of these things has yet to cause the collapse of Western civilization. This is the typical knee jerk reaction to every form of media or entertainment. Jazz had its time in this spotlight and video games shall soon leave it as well.

LunarMoon, I think your resemblance argument here is a failure. There is one giant thing you are overlooking. Music and painting, are not so interactive. You listen to it or view it, then it's done. Sure it might cause you to think, but not necessarily. Video games on the other hand, require quite a few hours of gameplay typically, to complete. A CD or a painting can be "consumed" in one sitting, without having to skip lunch. Video games give you tasks, objectives, things to do. Does a CD bark out instructions? Does a painting tell you what to do? No.

Now, why don't you define what an art is, then create a categorical argument of why playing video games is just as much an art as listening to music, or viewing a painting. You may also want to consider watching a movie, or reading a book as well.

You'd better believe that. Do you think MM is a lot like a LD? In my opinion, MM=LD, so usually when I do it, I think I am dreaming.
After all, just like a LD, you can do whatever you desire. There are no limitations unless you assign them. [/b]

well my brother is always saying how all kinds of things are like an LD. Personally, I think he's just obsessed with metaphors, but he always says writing to him is like a lucid dream because it is a manifestation of his subconscious....or something like that.

I'm not really much of an MM person myself, but I guess I can see why you could compare that with an LD.

My opinion is simply: i dont care about the other part of the youth anymore. Let them brainwash themselves. It is outstanding individuals with extreme talents such as music production, art, playing an instrument, singing... whatever it is that makes you a creative individual. I think you all have valid points...Now heres mine.

Video Games: Will your favorite game be recognized in 100 years, what about 1000 years?

Art: We still have art on display from hundreds of years ago.

Literature: We have books that date back over 1000 years...

Music: People still listen to old music, hence oldies station.

My point is Video games are a temporary distraction that offer no real benefits in any real life situation. The only video game thats helped me out was shooting games, helped my hand eye coordination in paintballing, which in turn is just like video games, quite pointless and probably not going to be around in the next 100-1000 years. Video games are played untill everything has been done on them, then another version or another game thats similar with better graphics come out, and we do the same time consuming task over and over again to reach the end of it.

We need to stop depleting our imaginations and create for ourselves, before it is too late and were sucked into the brainwashing of governmental controlled television and unrealistic games. I could go on and on but i have to go to work in the morning so, theres my view.

-Nick

LunarMoon, I think your resemblance argument here is a failure. There is one giant thing you are overlooking. Music and painting, are not so interactive. You listen to it or view it, then it's done. Sure it might cause you to think, but not necessarily. Video games on the other hand, require quite a few hours of gameplay typically, to complete. A CD or a painting can be "consumed" in one sitting, without having to skip lunch. Video games give you tasks, objectives, things to do. Does a CD bark out instructions? Does a painting tell you what to do? No. [/b]

Amazing, I’ve never found that the definition of art stated that it can never involve an element of interactivity. Let us check the definition shall we: n 1: the products of human creativity; works of art collectively; "an art exhibition"; "a fine collection of art" [syn: fine art]. Indeed, I fear that I do not see your definition in this entire dictionary page.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art
By the way, I beg to differ that something cannot be considered art if it takes a large amount of time to take in its message. If you honestly believe this than you’ve just logically stated that all literature, texts, and other such writings that often can’t impatiently be consumed in one sitting are not art. I greatly disagree and I feel that books are some of our most important modes of artistic expression.

Now, why don't you define what an art is, then create a categorical argument of why playing video games is just as much an art as listening to music, or viewing a painting. You may also want to consider watching a movie, or reading a book as well.[/b]

I’m sorry but this is simply an immature ad hominem argument (if you could call it such a thing) and a poor cop out typically used when one runs out of logical arguments (“Your opinion differs from mine so you must be stupid and uneducated!”). Indeed, did you honestly expect me not to quickly deflect that? Nowhere did I ever demonstrate that I was unfamiliar with some of the two largest forms of media. However, on to my main points. The concept of video games as art isn’t exactly a new or rare idea so I’ll provide you with a few sources (I’ve actually already explained why video games are art though you’ve insisted that I explain again) and of course, I’ve already given you a page full of definitions.
http://www.autofish.net/clysm/art/writing/...gamesasart.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art#Art_forms
Lastly, I shall provide a few questions. If I were to create a video game that communicated several philosophical, political, and emotional points that I believe in, would you not define this as art? Tell me, if a story is art, graphical design can be art, and music is art how can video games, composed of all these things, from a logical following not be art? If Lord the Rings were to be made into a video game, having all of its dialogue and scenarios translated into the game almost perfectly, would it suddenly lose all artistic value? Of course not; this is because its artistic value is due to the creativity and messages it expresses, not by its level of interactivity.

Originally posted by LunarMoon

Now, why don't you define what an art is, then create a categorical argument of why playing video games is just as much an art as listening to music, or viewing a painting. You may also want to consider watching a movie, or reading a book as well.

I’m sorry but this is simply an immature ad hominem argument (if you could call it such a thing) and a poor cop out typically used when one runs out of logical arguments (“Your opinion differs from mine so you must be stupid and uneducated!”).[/b]

Actually, what I was incinuating is that your resemblance argument is not strong enough for me, why don't you argue from a stronger approach (i.e. persuasively or categorically).

I have a better idea now of what I want to require. I'm willing to give up all other points except for this one. A piece of art should be static, and unconditional in nature. Every person should be subjected to the same experience. When something changes, due to user interaction, then it's no longer the same piece of art.

I'm willing to say that the music, the levels, the storyline (if fixed) is all art. If you want to take a snapshot of the current video game screen, I would consider that art, but the very next frame, assuming it's not identically the same pixel for pixel, is a different piece of art.

Regarding your Lord of the Rings comment, LunarMoon, you would have to precisely define what a video game is. I am assuming it would require a video game controller, and be driven by user input. In that case, the game itself is not art, but could be used to create art. It's really no different than a computer program that renders art scenes.

What about the human body? Is that art? I mean the physical body that you inhabit from birth until death. I don't think it is, but I do think that any picture of the body, video of the body, as long as it is static, is art.

I think that the extent of the corrosive properties of TV, computer and console games etc., completely depends on the person who is being subjected to it.

All my life, from a very young age, I have avidly and frequently watched movies, played games, read hundreds of books - and they have all constantly fuelled my imagination. For as long as I can remember I've been creating imaginary universes and worlds in my own bedroom, drawing precise diagrams for space crafts, writing stories, and making short films.

To re-state; TV and other such media may well be damaging to the imagination, but it totally depends on the person.

I don't guess that anyone can define what art is for someone else.
One person may get more out of one thing than another. But like most arguments the category as a whole should be what is taken into consideration. There are exceptions to every topic.

Actually, what I was incinuating is that your resemblance argument is not strong enough for me, why don't you argue from a stronger approach (i.e. persuasively or categorically). [/b]

Sorry about that.

I have a better idea now of what I want to require. I'm willing to give up all other points except for this one. A piece of art should be static, and unconditional in nature. Every person should be subjected to the same experience. When something changes, due to user interaction, then it's no longer the same piece of art. [/b]

A static state in art is not in the dictionary definition of it. The same argument can be made for animation, of which video games have the most in common with. Each frame of animation is in itself art though the entire piece is art as well. Also, due to the non-static nature of animation, I could receive a completely different experience from watching an animation piece 30 minutes into it than I'd get if I had seen it from the beginning.

What about the human body? Is that art? I mean the physical body that you inhabit from birth until death. I don't think it is, but I do think that any picture of the body, video of the body, as long as it is static, is art.[/b]

There are several people who do believe that the human body is art, something that is often debated in arguments that address the religious or even Victorian view of the body. However, this is a completely different discussion altogether that could easily result in theological discussion, of which I'd prefer not to get into (I've found that they typically become mere flame fests).

Originally posted by Distant Clone+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Distant Clone)</div>

What about the human body? Is that art? I mean the physical body that you inhabit from birth until death. I don't think it is, but I do think that any picture of the body, video of the body, as long as it is static, is art.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Lunar Moon
There are several people who do believe that the human body is art, something that is often debated in arguments that address the religious or even Victorian view of the body. However, this is a completely different discussion altogether that could easily result in theological discussion, of which I'd prefer not to get into (I've found that they typically become mere flame fests).

Not a work of art?

^^ That's my quote, not Lunar's.

Originally posted by Distant Clone
^^ That's my quote, not Lunar's.

Sorry about that.

I am not clear in either of your views if you feel the body is in fact a work of art or not.
Is it more a work of art than any of natures creations?
In defense that it is, the human figure combined with the countless body gestures and facial expressions I feel does set it aside from the rest.
I also am biased towards the woman's figure. What a work of art.

IMHO, if you can get your hands on a really good video game, you will find that it actually increases your imagination and creativity skill. Well designed video games are innovative and not repetitive. They challenge the player to find out new ways to beat the level. The latest games that are coming out have complex physics engines which can allow players to beat challenges in ways even the developers did not think of. multiple souloutions to problems give players freedom to express their creativity.