Neurological Pathways -- Mind over Matter

**Placebo** · 10-12-2004 09:27 AM

Everyone hates disclaimers, but they’re necessary

By reading this, you agree to the the following:
Any results of this experiment are the product of your own actions. You will not hold me accountable for those actions. I addition, you will not accuse me of any variety of misinformation, as I do not claim to be an expert in these matters. The information I provide is based off of my own experiences only. You will present any criticism in a dignified, constructive manner.

Oh, just one other thing - if anyone considers themselves to be close-minded (or has been called that), then it might freak you out. Assuming it works out the way I hope it will

Moving on…

Phase 1 Experiment
Please note that this experiment isnt directly related to lucid dreams, but will become marginally related in phase 2 (if you are fairly good with lucid dreams anyway - but dont worry I have alternatives).
Even if it had nothing to do with lucid dreams, DreamViews is my home, and its the closest forum on the subject I could find (that has a certain amount of credibility anyway)

I’m going to be deliberately vague at this point of the experiment. I wish everyone to try this experiment without knowledge of where I’m going with it.
The only solace to you all is the assurance that it’s a completely simple, harmless experiment that anybody can do with some simple objects.

As the experiment goes on, I will elaborate and expand on my theories and the experiments to test these theories. I don’t claim necessarily that the experiments prove the theory entirely, but they should point in the general direction.

Requirements:
- 1 Pin or needle
- 1 mall piece of paper. 1cm by 1cm approximately
- 1 Bowl, preferably with large diameter. Shallow if possible
- 1 Firm, stable desk
- 1 Chair to sit in
- A bathroom with taps and running water
- Yourself

Steps:
1. Touch all the above requirements (as for the last one, please keep focussed

)
2. Take the bowl with you and go to the bathroom, wash your hands and be sure to touch the metal tap (or the water pipe if you don’t have metal taps). This should remove any static charge you have.
3. Pour water into bowl, such that the water has at least a 20 cm diameter across (or more).
4. Carefully take the bowl back to your desk. Place the pin, paper, and chair nearby
5. Sit down (in chair)
6. Carefully place the piece of paper in the middle of the water, so that it floats
7. Carefully place the pin on the middle of the paper. You should now have a floating pin

8. Carefully touch the pin and the water (to balance out any static charge problems)
9. Carefully move the pin into a position where the pin is pointing away from your body. Make sure the pin settles to a stop in that position (more or less, doesn’t have to be perfect). It has to be still though.
10. Take your left index finger and place it above the water, slightly to the left of the pin, and about 3/4 up the pin (from the nearest point from yourself). You should be holding your finger near the left of the pin and above the water, but not touching the water.
11. Do the same with your right index finger, however this one you place on the RIGHT of the pin and ¼ up the pin (from the nearest point from yourself. Don’t touch the water. It should look something like this (apologies for bad drawing):

12. Does the pin rotate clockwise (slowly) ? If not, try slightly different positions. Don’t touch the water or the pin however
13. Repeat process 10 through 12 a couple of times, noticing the results. Reverse your fingers and see if anything changes.

Thanks for choosing my experiment... stupid and simple so far isnt it?
I promise it should get quite interesting

Results :
Choose one of the 3 as your answer:
1. It didn’t move at all. Or when it did, it was just me breathing heavily, or the wind. Or someone bumping the table.
2. It moved perfectly – as though I had static on my fingers. As soon as I put my fingers in position, it slowly rotated around.
3. It was confusing. Sometimes I thought it was moving according to my fingers, but then it stopped and moved around again. Or did something I didn’t expect at all. It might have been my imagination that it moved anyway.

[NOTE]
I have not revealed the 'point' of this experiment yet, so please do not flame me about theories based on what you *think* I expect from the results. As for how controlled it is - I cannot set it up to be too complex, as I would have even less of the limited feedback I'm getting so far.

Thanks to all who try this out - heres a banana

Phase 1 Part B - for the keen
Heres a part 1B if you feel keen .... do this with a floating toothpick (no paper thingy)
Once again - don't try to move it, just sit there like that and see what happens
And remember to wait for the toothpick/needle to stop moving before doing it.
And make sure its nothing obvious like, breath or open windows .. or static..

Same result options as with the needle...

**Placebo** · 10-13-2004 12:29 AM

Alright, it seems that people are avoiding my experiment at the moment...
Could someone tell me why? Is it perhaps a matter of circumstance (eg. cannot sit with a pin floating in a bowl by your computer without someone seeing you and sending you to an asylum)
Or are the people who still intend doing this?

As an update... one theory I have for situations where it mightmove, is that it may be heat causing convection currents
If you wish to be extra helpful, try to measure the speed that the needle moves around for some comparison
And record how hot you felt at the time, and how cold the air and water was.

Of course nobody seems interested right now... but at least I tried :/

**O'nus** · 10-13-2004 07:26 AM

I am going to try this out, I have just got a lot of crap to do and coming up (Yay Aikido testing).

I'll keep you posted Placebo.

**Placebo** · 10-13-2004 07:35 AM

Thanks O'nus... nice sig btw

**dream-scape** · 10-13-2004 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Placebo
Of course nobody seems interested right now... but at least I tried :/

Dude, you only gave it 15 hours. I would say you need to leave this phase open for at least 1 week. People do have lives you know

I'm willing to try this, but won't be able to do it until this Saturday or Sunday, that is if the phase is still open. But seriously if you expect alot of participants inside of 15 hours, you'll be sorely disappointed. Give it time

**Placebo** · 10-14-2004 12:54 AM

Dude, you only gave it 15 hours. I would say you need to leave this phase open for at least 1 week. People do have lives you know [/b]

Hehe.. I guess I'm being a little over-eager

**nightowl** · 10-14-2004 08:15 PM

I will try it out as well, but I cant now..perhaps...*thinks intensively* erm, monday?

**Placebo** · 10-15-2004 12:32 AM

No problem guys (and gals)... I'm feeling more patient now

Just remember, when you do it, don't 'try' anything. Just put your fingers there and see what happens. Watch the TV at the same time or something

**Kaniaz** · 10-16-2004 05:24 AM

I'd like to do this (I've been wanting to try this since...well, a day after it was posted), but I can't find a damn needle anywhere.

**Dragon** · 10-18-2004 06:37 PM

well, I just saw this, I think ill try it out.
Ill do a WBTB tonight and get the materials ready beforehand, then mess around with it when I wake up. Will keep ya posted.

**Placebo** · 10-19-2004 02:38 AM

k thanks guys
If you really really cant find a pin or needle, then you can try this with a thin piece of paper - about the same length as a needle.
Or perhaps a toothpick.

The problem is that it does make the experiment a lot less controlled, having various options :/

**Howie** · 10-28-2004 06:45 PM

Im in for giving it a try placebo

**Placebo** · 10-28-2004 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Howetzer
Im in for giving it a try placebo

Great, thanks. I won't hold my breath though - I've been waiting for volunteers w/ results for some time now...

**Damascus** · 10-30-2004 03:22 PM

ok placebo ill try this tomorrw and pm you the results tomorrow too. I only jst noticed this thread. Sorry about the delay!

**Placebo** · 10-31-2004 01:15 AM

Thanks damascus

Oh, just one other thing - if anyone considers themselves to be close-minded (or has been called that), then it might freak you out. Assuming it works out the way I hope it will

**Stalker** · 10-31-2004 02:31 AM

@ Placebo: Might be an interesting experiment to do this with 34 degrees celsius in the room (and water same temperature of course).

**spilly** · 11-01-2004 07:09 AM

the heat from your fingers is contaminating your results, if you are trying to practice tk or something, wouldnt it be best to use a vacuum and a much more controlled setup. the entire experiment here is flawed from the beginning

**Placebo** · 11-02-2004 11:37 AM

Originally posted by spilly
the heat from your fingers is contaminating your results, if you are trying to practice tk or something, wouldnt it be best to use a vacuum and a much more controlled setup. the entire experiment here is flawed from the beginning

I didn't mention anything regarding what results are expected, or what they mean ... thus you can't claim them to be pointless. I haven't revealed what the point of the experiment is yet

And if you quote me where I said ' it might freak you out. Assuming it works out the way I hope it will ' - my reply is that the 'way I hope' it works out is based on further phases of the experiment. Not just this first one. This first one is just that - the first one

Can I assume that you *could* move it with the heat from your fingers? If so, how fast, and from what distance from your fingers? And what kind of temperatures were involved?

I have no opinions stated on what the results should or will mean (yet)

@ Placebo: Might be an interesting experiment to do this with 34 degrees celsius in the room (and water same temperature of course).[/b]

Thanks for the input

It might help... however I think whats most important is that you can repeat the experiment later with more or less the same circumstances
I'd first like to see some answers and take it from there

**Howie** · 11-04-2004 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Placebo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Placebo)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Howetzer

Im in for giving it a try placebo

Great, thanks. I won't hold my breath though - I've been waiting for volunteers w/ results for some time now...[/b]

Well placebo, I have failed you.

I did try your experiment halloween evening. However I had a little beer buzz going and Research and drinking does not mix. As I read over your experiment I had read some things that I did wrong. I am not trying to make exuses but my *%#@*! printer that is twenty years old does not work on my computer. So to follow your guidelines I kept having to go back to the PC. SO I am going to copy it to disk and use my business printer.
So I deamed the results inconclusive.
Sorry. I will try again.

Hewlitt packard Office jet model 630. For sale!!! price = shipping & handling!

**Placebo** · 11-04-2004 10:29 PM

No problem

Everyone remember - I don't want you to move / not move it... I want to know what happened. No preconceived things here...

**Anelior** · 11-04-2004 11:18 PM

I tried this out, and it is very neat! Whether or not I have my fingers over the pin and paper, the
pin and paper together "orbit" the bowl clockwise, very slowly, with the pin facing the direction it
is orbiting on the paper. Does this have something to do with the magnetic field of the earth? I wonder if someone tried it in the southern hemisphere if it would orbit counterclockwise?
I'm up for part 2!

**Placebo** · 11-05-2004 12:02 AM

Yeh, thats cool. I need more results though before a part 2

I need more detail as well - I mean, were you 'trying' to move it? Or just sitting there like that?
This is likely just a neat science trick

For example, Im in the southern hemisphere, and it moves in both clockwise or anticlockwise (depending on how I do it)
And it doesnt orbit the bowl at all - it rotates

So make sure that you dont have any other obvious cause for it... and try my part 1B (below)

To those guys (if any) who tried it and nothing happened.... I want to hear from you too
You're still part of this

Part 1B - for the keen
Heres a part 1B if you feel keen

.... do this with a floating toothpick (no paper thingy)
Once again - don't try to move it, just sit there like that and see what happens
And remember to wait for the toothpick/needle to stop moving before doing it.
And make sure its nothing obvious like, breath or open windows .. or static..

**Syntex** · 11-05-2004 01:07 PM

Hey Placebo,

Figure I'd do it, Here are the results:

While standing, I poured tap water into a blue ceramic bowl and placed a toothpick that floated by itself into the water, at first the pointed end stayed in the middle as the stubbed end rotated countercloakwise starting at 5oclock and ending at 10:30 (not time wise, direction wise). I watched it until it pretty much stopped and put my fingers in that certain position, but "3" happened (option three, which you listed in your first post). Then I tried something different for the hell of it. I Put my right thumb by the middle of the tooth pick and it started to move towards it, towards the middle of the bowl. Wouldn't do it any more though when I sat down in my room to try and do it, instead of the kitchen counter.

My mood: Bored, and eager to do something... while doing it had no expectation.. but i did want it to move.

-Daniel

**Placebo** · 11-08-2004 12:32 AM

Thanks Daniel / Syntex ... well answered

So you have a 'undetermined / confusing' result (option 3) - although it seemed to move more than it was before you put your fingers by it

I wonder why it takes you guys so long for the toothpick / needle to come to a stop. It doesn't take too long where I am

**Syntex** · 11-08-2004 12:44 AM

Correct

Hope you get more results... ...yea my toothpick likes to do a little dance before it says hello to my fingers.

-Daniel

Thread: Neurological Pathways -- Mind over Matter

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Neurological Pathways -- Mind over Matter

Neat!

Experiment 1b Completed

Yep

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