Thread: Zeitgesit-Addendum

Zeigeist Addendum was released yesterday:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912

Woah. The second half of the movie is excellent. Everything about the resource-based economy is really really interesting.

Conspiracy theories. 'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Rai Saix

Conspiracy theories. 'Nuff said.

As much a theory as gravity is. 'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

As much a theory as gravity is. 'Nuff said.

I don't think you get that a theory is not a bad thing, or something that is hollow/inaccurate. Saying as much as a theory as gravity is... well... stupid. Theorys and Laws are toatly different, it's not like a law is one step up from a theory.
LAW

1) An empirical generalization; a statement of a biological principle that appears to be without exception at the time it is made, and has become consolidated by repeated successful testing; rule (Lincoln et al., 1990)

2) A theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by a statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present (Oxford English Dictionary as quoted in Futuyma, 1979).

3) A set of observed regularities expressed in a concise verbal or mathematical statement. (Krimsley, 1995).

THEORY

1) The grandest synthesis of a large and important body of information about some related group of natural phenomena (Moore, 1984)

2) A body of knowledge and explanatory concepts that seek to increase our understanding ("explain") a major phenomenon of nature (Moore, 1984).

3) A scientifically accepted general principle supported by a substantial body of evidence offered to provide an explanation of observed facts and as a basis for future discussion or investigation (Lincoln et al., 1990).

4) 1. The abstract principles of a science as distinguished from basic or applied science. 2. A reasonable explanation or assumption advanced to explain a natural phenomenon but lacking confirming proof (Steen, 1971). [NB: I don't like this one but I include it to show you that even in "Science dictionaries" there is variation in definitions which leads to confusion].

5) A scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena; a hypothesis that has been confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as accounting for the known facts; a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles or causes of something known or observed. (Oxford English Dictionary, 1961; [emphasis added]).

6) An explanation for an observation or series of observations that is substantiated by a considerable body of evidence (Krimsley, 1995).


Not to be mean, but i hate when people think being a theory means its not proven, you can't prove anything, unless you test something under every factor and possibility.

I will save your info into my memory banks.
Although note that I meant that the "conspiracy theory" was as valid as the theory of gravity, which I believe to be very valid. Basically I enjoyed the video, and agree with it. Personally I though that saying "Conspiracy theory 'nuff said" was just stupid. With which he probably meant the generally presumed meaning of theory as "idea/opinion", thus mocking the video.

True, and honestly i don't watch the video, conspiracy theorys are not my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by Volcon

True, and honestly i don't watch the video, conspiracy theorys are not my cup of tea.

Maybe you should. The first video was about religion, 9/11 and other similar incidents, brainwashing...
This one is about how banks rule the world (The whole Money=debt thing), economic hitmen, capitalism... and how to change the world. It's all very optimistic at the end. In my opinion it will never happen, the grim reality he shows in the first Zeitgeist is sadly much more realistic that the utopia he recommends as an alternative. But hey, it's worth a shot.

there's very little conspiracy theory in the second one. it seems the film maker did more homework this time.

Cool! I'll watch the rest of it later.

Originally Posted by ranma187

there's very little conspiracy theory in the second one. it seems the film maker did more homework this time.

That's what I found so refreshing about it. Nearly everything in the second one is actually on the record provable. The credit creation process works exactly how he describes it, and its no secret because you learn about that in year 11 economics in high school to the letter.

I'd say the only grey area in this one is the interviews with the economic hitmen, John Perkins.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man @ Wiki

According to the wiki article, Perkins has been largely discredited and labelled a nutter for his book. But if this truly is a conspiracy, you wouldn't really expect any less now would you? Catch-22 of the conspiracy world.

The second on the resource-based economy was fantastic, and I only hope I or my future children will live to see it. This world we live in right now has - at best - 15 to 20 years left in it before the Baby Boomers retirement bankrupts the wealthiest nations on the planet. This isn't some voodoo conspiracy theory either. Every western nation on Earth knows its coming and no one has a clue on how we can stop it.

Volcon makes me laugh, calling it a conspiracy theory without watching it. Do you usually refer to all black people as niggers, too?

On the movie, it's very good, he's got his act together this time for the most part. There is the whole part about how he implies the system is fucked up because you have to work for what you have that strikes me as... yeah.

Well, the first one was all about conspiracy's, i imagine this one would have taken the tone of the first one, though i shouldent jump to asumptions movies like this tend to not be my cup of tea, though i apologize for assuming it was about conspiracys.

Originally Posted by Volcon

Well, the first one was all about conspiracy's, i imagine this one would have taken the tone of the first one, though i shouldent jump to asumptions movies like this tend to not be my cup of tea, though i apologize for assuming it was about conspiracys.

You only assumed that because of me, who was ignorant.

The first Zeitgeist was depressing, but good.

I'm gonna watch this tonight...

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Volcon makes me laugh, calling it a conspiracy theory without watching it. Do you usually refer to all black people as niggers, too?

On the movie, it's very good, he's got his act together this time for the most part. There is the whole part about how he implies the system is fucked up because you have to work for what you have that strikes me as... yeah.

omnius i know you hang out at avalon. what's your username there? mine is the same as here.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

There is the whole part about how he implies the system is fucked up because you have to work for what you have that strikes me as... yeah.

It would be strange on its own. But doesn't he talk about it in connection with all the conspiracies and us being slaves. I really don't remember this part, apart from the one where he talks about "the future".

Yeah, it's about how being successful in the monetary system is based on scarcity, things are more valuable if people are incapable of getting them and must compete with each other. The fact is, we have enough resources so everybody can live a comfortable life, but if their true potential was tapped, then these resources would become useless to all the people that own them.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Yeah, it's about how being successful in the monetary system is based on scarcity, things are more valuable if people are incapable of getting them and must compete with each other. The fact is, we have enough resources so everybody can live a comfortable life, but if their true potential was tapped, then these resources would become useless to all the people that own them.

So what do we do so that doesn't happen while letting everyone have happy lives?

"we" as in the general population, control the labor force. The only way for us to gain control of these resources is to unify and with hold the only resource we have against the powers that be, and that is our labor. In other words, it would take a world wide labor strike.

Which will never happen.

Originally Posted by Rai Saix

Which will never happen.

Not with people with your attitude being apathetic.

We should put people with that attitude on a seperate planet, called planet apathy status quo and greed, sounds like a great place for wall street folks and dictators im sure you'll love it

I watched the film, good stuff...Opened my eyes a bit...they are right:

When human beings have resources, with no obligation to purchase, barter or work for those resources, they behave differently.

They/We Behave civilized with no money and endless resources provided from technology, we would have no war or crime, jobs, depression, nearly no stress...

Sounds like the ideal world to me.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Not with people with your attitude being apathetic.

We should put people with that attitude on a seperate planet, called planet apathy status quo and greed, sounds like a great place for wall street folks and dictators im sure you'll love it

I watched the film, good stuff...Opened my eyes a bit...they are right:

When human beings have resources, with no obligation to purchase, barter or work for those resources, they behave differently.

They/We Behave civilized with no money and endless resources provided from technology, we would have no war or crime, jobs, depression, nearly no stress...

Sounds like the ideal world to me.

Yes it' sort of like the vision gene roddenberry had with Star Trek. A highly technological society that eliminated greed and the need for accumulation of things. there is no monetary system. everything you need in life is provided for as long as you contribute to society.

Lyndon LaRouge says, "Dear coward, we're taking over"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd5uaScAUSQ

I know he's not talking about a new society but still, it has to do with economics and rai saix' response.