Boy, we've sure set up a "democratic government" in Afghanistan

**Hercuflea** · 10-26-2009 12:37 PM

Hmm....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...YE92vi0cqM9odA

Afghan police open fire at demonstrationBy Sardar Ahmad (AFP) – 8 hours ago

KABUL — Afghan police Monday opened fire and turned a water cannon on demonstrators angry about allegations that Western troops torched a Koran, wounding at least three people, officials and witnesses said.

Clashes erupted as police tried to prevent around 300 students, most of them men, from marching on parliament, the city's criminal investigation police chief, Sayed Abdul Ghafar Sayedzada, told AFP.

The UN mission in Kabul responded with an appeal for calm with a run-off presidential election less than a fortnight away.

"Police fired at the crowd, one bullet hit me. I was closing my shop at the time," Sherullah, an 18-year-old man who suffered a bullet wound to his hip, said from his hospital bed.

"They (policemen) were just firing. They were firing at the people," he said.
Sayedzada denied that police fired towards the crowd, saying they only aimed their guns in the air. They also used water cannon, the police chief added.

But a doctor at the emergency ward of Ibn Sina hospital said that at least three men suffering from "bullet wounds" had been admitted for treatment.

More than 15 police were also wounded in clashes between the angry mob and security forces, interior ministry spokesman Zemarai Bashary said.

An AFP reporter at the scene saw about three dozen people, mainly young students, herded into a police vehicle and taken away.

"We were demonstrating, we wanted to protest the burning of Koran by the foreign forces but the police came and started beating us," a young man, refusing to give his name, said from the back of a police vehicle.

Another man, one side of his face covered in blood, said: "They beat us up, they fired at the people."

In a similar protest in Kabul on Sunday, demonstrators torched an effigy of US President Barack Obama and attacked police. Police responded by firing into the air to disperse the crowd.

The protests come amid a growing tide of resentment towards the presence of around 100,000 Western troops in Afghanistan trying to tame a raging Taliban insurgency.

Even Afghan President Hamid Karzai, brought to power after the toppling of the Taliban with US support, is souring towards his old allies.

"Is the United States a reliable partner with Afghanistan? Is the West a reliable partner with Afghanistan?" Karzai told CNN in an interview on Sunday.

"Have we received the commitments that we were given? Have we been treated like a partner?"

Haroun Mir, head of Afghanistan's Centre for Research and Policy Studies, said the protests in Kabul appeared to have been well-organised and doubted they were simply spontaneous eruptions of anger.

"Getting people onto the streets in Afghanistan is very difficult, it takes quite some organising, especially two days in a row. Someone wants to send a message to the Afghan government and to coalition forces in Afghanistan," Mir told AFP.

"People in Kabul have always been in favour of the coalition presence in Afghanistan. So this is not spontaneous by Kabuli people.

"If it continues for a few more days we will see that it is not spontaneous and there is some political agenda behind it. And then we will have a clearer idea of who is behind it and what political signal they want to send."

The demonstrations have added to tension in the build-up to a run-off election between Karzai and his former foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah on November 7.

"We want to appeal for calm. We recognise that emotions are high but this issue needs to be resolved by talking not by resorting to violence," Aleem Siddique, a spokesman for the UN mission in Kabul, told AFP.

"There is nothing to indicate the demonstrations are politically motivated but we do need to recognise the constitutional right of people to demonstrate peacefully."

**ninja9578** · 10-26-2009 04:46 PM

Hmm. Democracy in a country that is 80% Sunni and 20% Shi'a? Yeah, that'll last for about three months.

**IndigoGhost** · 11-04-2009 12:29 AM

People are stupid, This is life.

**Armistice** · 11-04-2009 01:02 AM

They have very deep roots. 8 yrs isn't going to break those roots of hate. I wish I can say we should just drop them and let them fight over themselves, but that will allow another possible terrorist group to rise, so it's not so easy of a solution

**Universal Mind** · 11-04-2009 01:28 PM

It will take at least another two or three generations for democracy and capitalism to pull Afghanistan out of the dark ages. That is... if democracy and capitalism are maintained that long.

**Indecent Exposure** · 11-08-2009 11:08 AM

Cultural Arrogance.

**Invader** · 11-08-2009 11:27 AM

Give the people their gun rights, and the police will think twice about shooting blindly into a crowd of innocents.

**Universal Mind** · 11-08-2009 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by imran_p

Cultural Arrogance.

If thinking freedom and effective economics (to prevent poverty, starvation, etc.) are what every country deserves is arrogant, then I am about as arrogant as they come. I'm proud to fit that definition of arrogant.

**Black_Eagle** · 11-08-2009 02:56 PM

One problem is the people of Afghanistan themselves. I watched Journeyman Pictures video (can't link, it was deleted) which showed just how undisciplined and unmotivated the Afghan military is, that the military is attracting exactly the wrong type of person for service. Some military men, in turn, harass civilians which causes them to align with the warlords of the Taliban.

In my opinion, the warlords are among the last icons of a feudal system. They need to be removed and destroyed, but that won't happen until the people believe in such a cause.

I don't think the U.S. is to blame for the situation in Afghanistan. At least not entirely. It's an incredibly complex situation, with the U.S. only being one of many elements. I do, however, believe that Afghanistan and its people would be better off with the system of ideals and government America was supposed to bring.

**Xaqaria** · 11-09-2009 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If thinking freedom and effective economics (to prevent poverty, starvation, etc.) are what every country deserves is arrogant, then I am about as arrogant as they come. I'm proud to fit that definition of arrogant.

You have always been proud to be arrogant. Thats in every definition of the word, even the right one.

And if you think the economic system that is raping the planet, invading countries for their natural resources, and even ignoring the effects it has on our own children is "effective"; then yes, you are about as arrogant as they come. The worst arrogance is the "righteous arrogance" that you define yourself with.

**Universal Mind** · 11-09-2009 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You have always been proud to be arrogant. Thats in every definition of the word, even the right one.

No, some people are bothered by their own arrogance. Besides, I was using a false definition of arrogance just to point out to Imran where I actually stand. If you are calling me truly arrogant, I challenge you to back up your idiotic claim with evidence.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

And if you think the economic system that is raping the planet, invading countries for their natural resources, and even ignoring the effects it has on our own children is "effective"; then yes, you are about as arrogant as they come. The worst arrogance is the "righteous arrogance" that you define yourself with.

Raping the planet? By leading the world in foreign aid, giving more than half of the world hunger relief food (Have you ever REALLY thought for a few seconds about that one?), and taking power away from atrociously oppressive regimes and giving it to the people? You are about as apathetic as they come. Are you proud of that? Are you arrogant about it?

**guerilla** · 11-09-2009 08:06 AM

Democracy doesn't work in any country for long, republics however do last.

I highly doubt the middle east wants to be a republic or democracy...they prefer oligarchies it seems.

Let them enjoy their tyranny, it aint our problem, if they want a republic, they have to do it themselves, we shouldn't be there spoon feeding them something they don't want.

**Universal Mind** · 11-09-2009 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by guerilla

Democracy doesn't work in any country for long, republics however do last.

I highly doubt the middle east wants to be a republic or democracy...they prefer oligarchies it seems.

Let them enjoy their tyranny, it aint our problem, if they want a republic, they have to do it themselves, we shouldn't be there spoon feeding them something they don't want.

Democracy has two major definitions. The original one is government in which the people make all of the policies. However, it took on the meaning of government in which the people merely have the ultimate authority. That is what I believe in on almost a religious level. I don't think any government has any business having the ultimate authority. The people should always have the power to vote out the officials of their government and put new ones in. I despise any policy of, "We're in charge, and there is nothing you can do about it." It has no business existing on this planet. If Afghanistan wants an oligarchy, they should be able to vote one in, but they should always have the power to vote it out. They have no moral ground for deciding for future generations that they have to submit completely to government authority. I don't accept the idea that oppressive governments are just minding their own business in their own countries. Oppression is the entire world's business, just like domestic violence is a community's business.

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