Thread: I'm an atheist, but....

I think a few have missed the point of that one bit. What I meant was, whilst speech is free to all, everyone has their own beliefs. Whether we choose to listen to them or ignore them is completely up to us. However, we do not have the right to remove the value of each other's beliefs or opinions. Whether we agree or not is something else. Freedom of Speech covers one's ability to voice and listen to opinions and beliefs, not to denounce them and brand them as nonsense.

And oh, as for me saying religion was trivial, well, depends on the context. If you look at all these conflicts sparked off by differences in belief between two variants of the same religion, then that's trivial. But the moralities and teachings of religions aren't so trivial, though many people fail to really understand some of these teachings (but that's a different issue completely, which again is something that's open to interpretation, so I won't go into that much further).

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Do you understand what is meant by the separatism thingie? I disagree with your use of spelling.

lol in fact, I do. People don't become atheist because "it's cool", like one would become goth or something Becoming atheist (usually) involves analysing religions and agreeing with none - which is different from most people who just have a religion because they learnt it from their parents/school/etc. No reason to develop on the topic heh

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@ bluefinger:

Heh sorry for sounding a bit harsh. I just thought you were a bit superficial, that's all.

Originally Posted by pj

I don't need money. I don't need sex or power or education. I don't need tolerance or empathy or morals or ethics.

Why should anyone else?

wow...

you have my utmost respect, pj.

O'nus: that was brilliant, thanks for sharing. (I really admire Dawkins' word power..)

Originally Posted by Kromoh

@ bluefinger:

Heh sorry for sounding a bit harsh. I just thought you were a bit superficial, that's all.

It's okay, it's also my bad a little for not explaining enough what I meant with my argument

Originally Posted by bluefinger

I think a few have missed the point of that one bit. What I meant was, whilst speech is free to all, everyone has their own beliefs. Whether we choose to listen to them or ignore them is completely up to us. However, we do not have the right to remove the value of each other's beliefs or opinions. Whether we agree or not is something else. Freedom of Speech covers one's ability to voice and listen to opinions and beliefs, not to denounce them and brand them as nonsense.

We have every right to denounce others' beliefs as nonsense, and no ability to remove the value of their beliefs and opinions. Watch:

Believing in a magical Sky Daddy who made everything out of mud is nonsense, and arguments over whose Sky Daddy can beat whose Sky Daddy's ass are threatening all life on earth.

There you go, I just denounced hundreds of millions of people's beliefs as nonsense, but do you think I devalued those beliefs one iota for even a single one of those people?

Originally Posted by Taosaur

We have every right to denounce others' beliefs as nonsense, and no ability to remove the value of their beliefs and opinions. Watch:

Believing in a magical Sky Daddy who made everything out of mud is nonsense, and arguments over whose Sky Daddy can beat whose Sky Daddy's ass are threatening all life on earth.

There you go, I just denounced hundreds of millions of people's beliefs as nonsense, but do you think I devalued those beliefs one iota for even a single one of those people?

Well, I guess it depends on the context of the situation, but in a way, yeah, you are right. It's just I'm trying to put across a point in which I try not to be an ass by going up to some muslim/christian/etc and telling them their whole belief system is a pack of lies. Because then I'd be no better than a preacher who tries to shove his beliefs down my throat.

But then of course, you run into the whole thing of stupid opinions and beliefs, or extreme opinions and beliefs. I guess then, it is up to the person to decide how he/she deals with such things, because then things start to swing into a different context altogether. If one's belief or opinion is to the detriment of a certain group of people or to a singular person, etc, then is it a valid one?

I understand your point, but if I were to voice an opinion in which I think someone else's opinion is wrong or misguided, I wouldn't go about saying "You're wrong!". I would try to illustrate how one's opinion is wrong through debate and discussion, as opposed to being an asshole and flaming the person. However, in the end, it would still be up to the person himself to decide whether he or she is wrong, whilst my opinion would remain the same. So if a religion of people worshipping the Sky Daddy were to suddenly exist, I may think that it is quite silly, but in the end, it is up to the people to decide what they want to believe in. People not only have a right to free speech, but also to make up their own mind.

So yeah... you may say all Sky Daddy worshippers are silly, but then again, it is still up to the people to decide whether they worship Deity X or Y or no deity at all.

Then Mark has a right to make is own right to inhibit bluefinger's rights. But you do not, because I had a right to take that right away from you.

round and round we go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snWrTShcR8g