Thread: I'm not ashamed to admit I hate feminists.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

stop dividing. Dividing people into black and white started the American Civil War. Dividing people into 'Jews' and the rest of the world started WWII. And now, dividing people into women and men could start another.

This is wrong. The Civil War was started due to discrimination, prejudice and unequal rights, not due to recognizing the fact that people have different racial traits based on their genealogical history. World War II was started due to similar reasons and on top of that eugenics, collectivism and fascism and not due to recognizing the fact that some people self-identify as Jews. Dividing people into groups is a minor factor and not in any way supportive of these issues. Anytime you classify someone as "black" or "Hispanic" or "stupid" or "Christian" you have effectively put that person into a group with all the other persons that you would apply that label to.

What you said didn't make any sense. If we didn't divide people into women and men, I'd kill myself because I'm straight. Any label that applies to more than one persons puts all labeled persons into a separate group under that label.

No, it's not. But it will be so quit being stupid

(that's soap)

In the long run we need to look past things like race, religion, and gender and unite under one banner: Human.

Wrong. I won't unite with crazy fascists, terrorists, Islamists, evangelicals and other nutjobs. If you wanna do that, go ahead, but don't complain to me if you end up upside down with a fork up your ass. The very last thing I'll do is unite with religion. Religion is a choice, gender and race you are born with. The three shouldn't ever be listed as if they're the same.

Why unite, what's the point? We're different. Talk about it, don't ignore it and pretend we're all the same when we're obviously not.

Firstly, feminism is a good movement. Getting women equal to men is a good thing, unless you think women are inferior to men, which I don't.

Anyway, you analysis of the America Civil war is weak, firstly getting rid off slavery started it. See blacks being slaves is not ethically right, so a war to destroy slavery is ethically good. Hitler was a crazy racist, and no it was not the imaginary divide between Jews and others that caused it, it was Hitler and the bunch of thugs called neo nazis. Lastly, feminist do not want to divide us up, instead they want to make us equal.

Abortion is supported by most doctors, and scientifically their is no evidence that a feutus is alive or even feels pain or thinks. The issue of responcibillity aside, the world population is too big and having more unwanted children will not help.

Women are paid less than men for the same work. They have their rights to control their own body taken away like abortion issue. Lastly, they have to live in a male dominated world with idiots like you who mouth of against progress. If it wasen't for feminism, women would be unable to vote or even work in a male dominated area.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Firstly, feminism is a good movement. Getting women equal to men is a good thing, unless you think women are inferior to men, which I don't.

Anyway, you analysis of the America Civil war is weak, firstly getting rid off slavery started it. See blacks being slaves is not ethically right, so a war to destroy slavery is ethically good. Hitler was a crazy racist, and no it was not the imaginary divide between Jews and others that caused it, it was Hitler and the bunch of thugs called neo nazis. Lastly, feminist do not want to divide us up, instead they want to make us equal.

Abortion is supported by most doctors, and scientifically their is no evidence that a feutus is alive or even feels pain or thinks. The issue of responcibillity aside, the world population is too big and having more unwanted children will not help.

Women are paid less than men for the same work. They have their rights to control their own body taken away like abortion issue. Lastly, they have to live in a male dominated world with idiots like you who mouth of against progress. If it wasen't for feminism, women would be unable to vote or even work in a male dominated area.

Please read what I said, first, dumbass. I said I wasn't against equality. I think that's fair! Alot of them, however, are trying to become even better well off- eg., radical feminists.

As far as the Civil War thing, I was simply generalizing what the conflict about. I couldn't possibly list all the reasons, but one of the big ones was slavery- black only, if I recall correctly. They were thought of as unhuman and not worthy of life.

Also, neo-nazis? Err, no, that was after the real nazis- Hence NEO (new) NAZIS.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

As far as the Civil War thing, I was simply generalizing what the conflict about. I couldn't possibly list all the reasons, but one of the big ones was slavery- black only, if I recall correctly. They were thought of as unhuman and not worthy of life.

So? The reason they were enslaved was not because they were black but because people thought that different races had any relevance apart from being of a different race. Blacks are still blacks today, just not enslaved. You said that dividing people into groups caused wars, and that's flat out false.

Meh, I disagree with the OP, I do however believe some take it TOO far, if your going to cause public disturbances and stuff, its kind of going against your cause ya know?

but on your abortion stance, I have no comment because im for it, but i respect your views, also you stated that men and women are equal right now, i beg to differ, I totally disagree with that statement, things are not equal.

Women are still literally laughed at when they need to get a car serviced, men assume women know nothing of cars or mechanics, and men always tend to treat women like second class citizens. Not only that but men get paid more, sadly still.

I think its very sexist to say we are equal, dress as a woman one day and live ONE day as a woman, and come back to me and tell me if were equal.


I also agree with wendy, the feminist movement is a great thing, it should of started alot earlier in my opinion but whats done is done, the movement seems to have slowed down over the past decade or so or its just my perception of that, but they need to step things up and ensure women get EQUAL PAY!!!!

Society as a whole needs to grow the hell up and learn to treat all women with respect and dignity and stop staring at their damn chest when speaking to them, they have feelings and they aren't just eye-candy guys!

lately i've just had it with men, i might be a male, but i sure as hell don't feel or act or think like one, it seems to me most men just want to dominate and own the female sex, like they are the gate keepers or some crap, well I say NO, to that masculinity crap.

Femininity should dominate the world, not masculinity, masculinity has brought nothing but conflict and war and greed and power, why not give us feminine's a chance to rule with femininity?


All men have created is weapons and wars and money, which in turn bring death and greed and corruption, yay masculinity

Originally Posted by guerilla

Femininity should dominate the world, not masculinity, masculinity has brought nothing but conflict and war and greed and power, why not give us feminine's a chance to rule with femininity?

All men have created is weapons and wars and money, which in turn bring death and greed and corruption, yay masculinity

Men evolved as the dominant sex. There's no discussion here. It's just a fact of life. And even though a shallow form of female pseudo-dominance can be made out today, there's no contest - think science, think philosophy, think information management, think media, think internet, think the richest people in the world are 80-85% male. Men have a natural instinct to dominate society, partly in ways that aren't naked to the eye. It's not that women don't get opportunity to compete in relevant sectors - they just don't. Because they're not dominant and they never will be.

Compare:

Oprah - Letterman
Beyonce - Bono
Rice - Bush

In other news, men have created the greatest inventions, made the greatest discoveries, spearheaded the greatest movements, fought the most important wars and produced the greatest works of art. Your view is biased. Meanwhile, women have mostly been involved in feminism. Wars and progress stem from the same root - the dominant male desire to lead and influence society and fight for a goal with relentless determination. If all politicians were female, the earth would literally stop turning. Like literally come to halt and just not turn anymore.

I'm all for equality and women are probably equal in their mental faculties etcetera. I just don't like it when it's taken too far, and in areas where there isn't really sexism any more, to the point of persecuting people for noticing that somebody is a woman. Radical feminists have to face up to the fact that there are differences. For example, men cannot give birth wheras women can... so there will always be social differences.

It's quite similar to my dislike of the overuse of the term 'racist'... it's become so overused it's now a cliché and definitely begins to trample on freedoms (freedom of speech largely) in some situations. Racism is largely a thing of the past in the UK at least, and to call half of the things that happen nowadays 'racist' is an insult to the serious offenses of the past.

I also disapprove of the term 'feminist'. To me that in no way is provocative of equality; it suggests female superiority. The term 'equalist' would be much more apt.

I think everyone hates the extreme feminist, and if you don't its probably because you are one yourself. They are just flat out sexist. There is no reason to mix all feminist together however. Most are not that extreme. Infact even in general feminist disagree with each other on a lot of things.

The biggest thing that annoys people however, is when they claim they want to be equal in all things, then expect to be treated differently because they are woman. You can't have both at once. The classic example is when a woman says she wants to be equal to a man in a relationship, but then expects the man to pay for everything when they go on a date, which by default means they are no longer equal.

Its not about being equal or identical. Its about being fair and respectful. Another thing that is often pointed out is when people say woman on average make less than men doing the same job. But then you look at it up and normally the average man works longer hours than a woman doing the same job. So is it fair that a man makes more? If he is working longer hours, then yes it is. Its totally fair. Same thing goes for if you take a year off your job to have a baby. If a man works that entire year and gets promoted for doing a good job. Is that fair that the man is making more money and is in a higher position than the woman? Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Xei

It's quite similar to my dislike of the overuse of the term 'racist'... it's become so overused it's now a cliché and definitely begins to trample on freedoms (freedom of speech largely) in some situations. Racism is largely a thing of the past in the UK at least, and to call half of the things that happen nowadays 'racist' is an insult to the serious offenses of the past.

Yeah, I agree with that. The English Wikipedia entry for human race is actually pretty balanced and gives a good neutral overview about how to tackle the issue of obvious phenotypic differences among populations in certain regions. By contrast, the German Wikipedia article is completely overrun by people who wouldn't dare use the words race or racial in ANY context. It actually says in the first sentence that all concepts of race have been abandoned by basically everyone except racists and that race concepts are inherently racist. This is exactly what you find in Germany.

Seriously, that word 'race' is so overloaded in German... wow. It's like you say "racial characteristics" and that exact second you are accused of considering the other person sub-human. It's not even funny. I can't acknowledge the fact that specific genealogical populations have specific typical phenotypic traits and that it's useful to refer to this as RACE without being called a racist. I hate that. What's the big deal? I don't get it. It's only natural that humans would evolve slightly different based on their environment. You couldn't release a porn movie here and put the word interracial on it because interracial includes race and that means that you're a racist. People are completely nuts over PC. You can say that someone looks "Black" or "African" or "Chinese" but don't you dare invoke the term race.

You can use the term ethnicity as a substitute... but ethnicity actually means something different from race. So basically, we're fucked. You can sound smart and say 'cline' too... but whatever.

Also, in English seminars in university, it's no problem to use the word race, even among Germans. It's only problematic if you say RASSE. It's just... crazy.

Originally Posted by Korittke

In other news, men have created the greatest inventions, made the greatest discoveries, spearheaded the greatest movements, fought the most important wars and produced the greatest works of art. Your view is biased. Meanwhile, women have mostly been involved in feminism. Wars and progress stem from the same root - the dominant male desire to lead and influence society and fight for a goal with relentless determination. If all politicians were female, the earth would literally stop turning. Like literally come to halt and just not turn anymore.

That's easy to say when women weren't allowed to do shit throughout history (often beginning with basic things such as reading) and the fact that history has been written by men, so, of course what women did or did not do never really mattered. Anyway, the few women that made it into history books are in no way inferior to men in their deeds. You have able rulers, generals, scientists and poets.
Women have "mostly been involved in feminism" because without getting through that first they would never get anywhere else.
As for what would happen to the world - yeah, I might concede things would move at a different rate but moving at a different rate isn't the same as stopping. I once read about a study that said the only reason Africa didn't just totally colapse decades ago was because women's work was supporting the economy (while men were busy being "dominant"). A fat lot of good "being dominat" would have done for them if no food came out of the fields and all their kids starved to death - wonderful way to run a land if you ask me... Meanwhile, the women (who keep the Earth from moving) started small businesses, sold the stuff they made at the markets, used the money to get phones, electricity, schools and medical care in their villages.

Originally Posted by Alric

Another thing that is often pointed out is when people say woman on average make less than men doing the same job. But then you look at it up and normally the average man works longer hours than a woman doing the same job. So is it fair that a man makes more? If he is working longer hours, then yes it is. Its totally fair. Same thing goes for if you take a year off your job to have a baby. If a man works that entire year and gets promoted for doing a good job. Is that fair that the man is making more money and is in a higher position than the woman? Yes it is.

Really? I never realized companies had different time tables depending on gender.

Just last month I heard about this woman who learned her husband's craft and started fixing shoes for people of the neighbouring villages. And she worked a stretch of land for some guy, same time, work, tools, everything than guys who had worked there before. But, of course, she got payed less - she was a woman, that's "how things are". On top of it, she went home and did all the "woman's stuff" around the house (I have to wonder just what the hell did her husband do in the middle of all this...)
A few days later, this big company, greatest exporter in the country, was going to start paying the same to their female workers that they did to the male (all doing the same job) - all through a phase of 4 years... And they said this as if it was a gesture of greatness or something - according to our law, the company should have been taken to court ages ago!
Believe it or not, this happened (happens) in western Europe!

The point is why isn't it fair when it's a woman working her but off the whole year and doing a good job. Oh, of course - you can't promote women, they get pregnant!



Yeah, radical feminist are just a bunch of sexists, I won't argue with that, but really guys... On the rare ocasions I hang out with people, I hang out with men, 'cause I have more in common with them than I have with women my own age - and, trust me, most guys don't have a clue of the kind of crap women put up with from men.
Like guerilla said, if you can pass yourself off as a convincing woman, try doing it some time - you're bound to notice the difference.

If masculinity was removed from the world this is what would happen:

Now:
<World> --->

Then:
<World>

And a little while later:

Its just an example. If men at a given company tend to work longer hours than the woman, then the men are going to tend to make more money than the woman doing the same job. That doesn't matter at all for individuals however. In cases when they do exactly the same thing, for the same amount of time, it should be the same.

Of course its not perfect. There are companies that do all form of illegal things. Though that isn't the majority of them.

Good as gold, god of wine. It is more complex than stupidity. Things are causing things you hate. It's your responsibility to deal with that not their problem to get smarter but your hate is your own problem to deal with.

Also you can't distinguish between the point where something is alive and not alive. According to your idea of abortion the point where you said don't abort could go back as far as meeting the person who you have sex with and all the events leading up to it. How do you decide which point it becomes life and is then inappropriate to abort anything? Is it alive at the point where you meet the person, the point where you get into bed with them. Is the sperm a baby before ejaculation, or does it become a baby life after the ejaculation. Or only when it enters the vagina. Or when it goes into the egg. Or when it is 9 months old. Or when it comes out. You can't define a finite point where something is suddenly alive it's ridiculous. The only thing you can do is understand that before the baby comes out it isn't in a state of being that we are in. Everything that is in a different state is treated different as is appropriate. There are times when it may be appropriate to abort something significant in your belly before it grows into 20 year old. Destroying or nurturing is not even an issue it's about what the appropriate thing to do is and that requires proper understanding of why you have certain morals and how effective they are when you put them into practice.

For or against abortion is way too simplistic of a decision and not an effective way to think about or deal with something complex and intense like that. One has to be more capable of discerning and understanding what is appropriate according to different situations. It may be easy to say always do this or that however it will become foolish when you don't fully consider why you are doing such things and how they are operating in relation to your decisions.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

and don't bullshit me with, it isn't human yet! No, it's not. But it will be so quit being stupid.

It will not be if it is aborted. My baby with Britney Spears will be human too, but not if she keeps ignoring me.

Originally Posted by Good as Gold

The only time an abortion is right is when you're raped or if you can't support the baby to the point that it will die.

Those fetuses wouldn't become human if not aborted?

Why are people ashamed to recognize that THERE ARE differences between women, therefore we are not equal?

I don't mean unequal in human rights, but we are not equal beings.

lets see, I am pretty much against abortion, there is one part that is really rediculous to me. "its my body" right, it is, but guess what? the body inside yours isnt your body, it is the child's body. And, the man should get a say too, after all he might really love that baby and want it, yet the woman is free to just say kill it? Those two things culminated seem pretty selfish to me.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

lets see, I am pretty much against abortion, there is one part that is really rediculous to me. "its my body" right, it is, but guess what? the body inside yours isnt your body, it is the child's body. And, the man should get a say too, after all he might really love that baby and want it, yet the woman is free to just say kill it? Those two things culminated seem pretty selfish to me.

There's neither a body nor a child so none of that has any relevance.

Feminists annoy the shit of me,

good as gold...feminism, having started in the 18th century, has changed so much over the years. feminism has so many umbrella groups, that saying that you hate "feminists" or "radical feminists", is just really silly. the bill of rights for women that was brought about by the national organisation of women in the US, in the 1960's granted all of the "equality" you're rambling about...before that we had the suffragettes...lets see, decided to campiagn for women's sufferage because african american men over 21 were going to be given the vote, and of course white women were superior to black men...thus white women should be given sufrage (fucked up!!). feminists of the 1920's...lets see...two of the most famous, emma goldman and voltairian de clayre...both anarchist, feminist and radicals! these were the good ones!

and if you're talking about equality, then men need to realise that they can be feminist too, it's not exclusive.

the problem with 1960's feminism is that it was led by privileged, middle class, educated, (predominantly) white women. from the start it only gave an illusion of being "equal". women of colour (not just as some of you have said "black") and women in poverty were not represented by this branch of feminism.

myself and my housemates recently hosted a radical feminist gathering at our house over 3 days. there was a marquee, a film screening room, a kids play area and a quiet place to hang out. there were workshops on islamic feminism, book binding, how to knit, how to organise our activist groups better, how women can work to avoid competition with one another, how to belly dance, how to be a better parent and loads more, including workshops given by men. an anti-authoritarian parenting group formed out of one of the workshops.

men, women and children were welcome. there were 140 people from all over the world, here at my house. this is not exclusive or divisive.

Originally Posted by half/dreaming

we are not equal beings.

So in your opinion is it women who are the inferior ones or men?

Inferior in ability to create babies? Men.

Inferior in physical agility? Women.

Inferior as a whole? Neither, both sexes are equal. But different. Clearly. Or there wouldn't be a word for 'man' or 'woman', would there?

He already made it very clear what he's talking about, don't take things out of context.

Xei that's a bit uptight when people say not equal I'm assuming they refer to inferiority because obviously everything isn't identical as it goes without saying things are different.