Thread: An Inconvenient Truth

I think human nature plays a role in this. When an issue is pending (I guess you would say) people ignore it. To put it bluntly, if it is not effecting them NOW, they brush it aside.
Even when it does effect them this argument still holds up. If you screw someone slowly they take it and bitch a little. If you do it all at once they will not stand for it.
Unfortunately global warming does not happen over night


This scares the crap out of me O'nus.
Every time I try to conserve, recycle, use less gas, turn off lights, put money towards retirement. I often have this sick gut feeling and I ask myself, what is the point? It seems so evident to me how lazy many people are.
I tell myself I am doing this for future generations. Will my tiny contribution help? I have doubts.

I hate to be a pessimist in this matter. But facts do not lie.

if everyone does there bit, then it does help.

however, if only one person does it, the effect is marginal.

even if you are the only one, at least you are carring

Originally Posted by Howetzer

I think human nature plays a role in this. When an issue is pending (I guess you would say) people ignore it. To put it bluntly, if it is not effecting them NOW, they brush it aside.
Even when it does effect them this argument still holds up. If you screw someone slowly they take it and bitch a little. If you do it all at once they will not stand for it.
Unfortunately global warming does not happen over night
This scares the crap out of me O'nus.
Every time I try to conserve, recycle, use less gas, turn off lights, put money towards retirement. I often have this sick gut feeling and I ask myself, what is the point? It seems so evident to me how lazy many people are.
I tell myself I am doing this for future generations. Will my tiny contribution help? I have doubts.

I hate to be a pessimist in this matter. But facts do not lie.
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Each person makes a significant difference - you know that!

Just by making posts on a forum, telling a friend, anyone - you create a chain of people who will tell other people and bring about more awareness. Many people will take more action, if they can, and petition their political leaders, principal's, and even their parents!

Frankly, I am pissed off with our ancestors and their ignorance! You should be to! But do not be like them! Do not let these problems have to be solved by our children!

In the movie, Al Gore makes a very good point that you are saying here. Our central nervous systems acts in that very exact way - we must not make any sudden action until it becomes an obvious emergency or apparent problem. This is apparent all through psychology. In fact, we are more prone to argue with the people purporting it. (ie. Al Gore is trying to become president again, obviously... what freaking heat wave? Hurricanes? Yeah, so what....)

Number one thing you can do - watch your political elections, pay attention, vote for the right people whose focus is on environmental issues and global issues instead of selfish national issues. "Throw more money to the military.. take it from something useless like.. oooohhh I don't know... "

It is time we take responsibility before the consequences become ineffable.

~

I often become quite annoyed with some people. You see, I drive a Neon, partly because it is fun to drive a small car, but mostly because it uses relatively little fuel.

The annoyance part comes in when I am at an intersection and someone in their Escalade (12-17 mpg) almost runs me over or totally blocks my view of oncomming traffic. OK that goes toward energy conservation.

The next thing that toasts my cookies are all of the people squeezing out more babies than the earth can support. My wife and I had our two kids (note not even enough to replenish the population), then chose sterilization.

Mankind and viruses, so alike.

Originally Posted by Seeker

I often become quite annoyed with some people. You see, I drive a Neon, partly because it is fun to drive a small car, but mostly because it uses relatively little fuel.

The annoyance part comes in when I am at an intersection and someone in their Escalade (12-17 mpg) almost runs me over or totally blocks my view of oncomming traffic. OK that goes toward energy conservation.

The next thing that toasts my cookies are all of the people squeezing out more babies than the earth can support. My wife and I had our two kids (note not even enough to replenish the population), then chose sterilization.

Mankind and viruses, so alike.
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Does America, or any states I suppose, offer redemption, grant, or subsidy for buying fuel efficient cars? Or thermostats for that matter..? Or.. anything? I have no knowledge of any of this, so I do not want to seem coy or uncouth here - I am honestly asking if America does.

~

Originally Posted by O

Does America, or any states I suppose, offer redemption, grant, or subsidy for buying fuel efficient cars? Or thermostats for that matter..? Or.. anything? I have no knowledge of any of this, so I do not want to seem coy or uncouth here - I am honestly asking if America does.

~
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Sadly, America is no longer at this time run by the people. Big business such as petroleum make it difficult. Note I said difficult, not impossible. If Americans wanted to, they could take back their country. I only live 9 miles from work, we have a shower at our office. I could conceivably bicycle to work in the morning, that is unless an SUV takes me out. We have very few sidewalks.

One thing that has really pissed me off for the last 30 years has been the suppression of out nuclear energy program. We still get most of our electricity from fossil fuels, mainly because it costs billions to build and commision a nuclear plant.

Nukes are FAR less damaging to the environment than coal or natural gas power plants.

Originally Posted by O

Each person makes a significant difference - you know that!
Just by making posts on a forum, telling a friend, anyone - you create a chain of people who will tell other people and bring about more awareness. Many people will take more action, if they can, and petition their political leaders, principal's, and even their parents! [/b]

I do try and tell myself that it makes a differance.
A few things to add.
We have developed energy efficient homes. You name it. Insulation, efficient furnaces. Great. Now we build four times the house we need.
We need more than a trade off.

Other countries. China is expanding it's coal plants in an alarming rate.
Some don't even have regulations, much less global impact ideas.

In the movie, Al Gore makes a very good point that you are saying here. Our central nervous systems acts in that very exact way - we must not make any sudden action until it becomes an obvious emergency or apparent problem. This is apparent all through psychology. In fact, we are more prone to argue with the people purporting it. (ie. Al Gore is trying to become president again, obviously... what freaking heat wave? Hurricanes? Yeah, so what....)[/b]

I will be sure to watch this.

It is time we take responsibility before the consequences become ineffable.[/b]

Sometimes I think it would be the best thing for this earth to run out of oil.
Necessity breeds invention.

**Seekman. One thing we can afford is more seekers in the world.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

I do try and tell myself that it makes a differance.
A few things to add.
We have developed energy efficient homes. You name it. Insulation, efficient furnaces. Great. Now we build four times the house we need.
We need more than a trade off.

Other countries. China is expanding it's coal plants in an alarming rate.
Some don't even have regulations, much less global impact ideas.



I will be sure to watch this.

Sometimes I think it would be the best thing for this earth to run out of oil.
Necessity breeds invention.

**Seekman. One thing we can afford is more seekers in the world.
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Has anyone read or heard of any reports or theories on what would happen if we did deplete our oil reserve..? I mean in the respect of environment issues.. I hardly care for the lack of funds to oil companies..

~

Part of the problem is no one can agree on anything. People can't even agree if theres really such a thing as global warming. Well yea the planet is warming but is it because of people or is it just the naturel warming and cooling cycle the earth has? Its the same thing with people who swear we have 80 years worth of easy to get oil and people who says we have 10 years before it all runs out. And you wouldn't think both could be true at the same time but both sides will give you a ton of "facts" supporting thier case.

Originally Posted by Alric

Part of the problem is no one can agree on anything. People can't even agree if theres really such a thing as global warming. Well yea the planet is warming but is it because of people or is it just the naturel warming and cooling cycle the earth has? Its the same thing with people who swear we have 80 years worth of easy to get oil and people who says we have 10 years before it all runs out. And you wouldn't think both could be true at the same time but both sides will give you a ton of "facts" supporting thier case.
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Bingo.

Many of us were raised fearing the "population bomb," which should have starved us all to death twenty years ago. Then there was global cooling and ozone depletion, peak oil, and on and on.

There is a significant body of evidence that we are right now heading into another minor ice age and will be there in ten years or less.

There is a significant body of evidence proving that "hockey stick" that is the core of the global warming argument is hooey, and that the mathematical models can't predict anything other than that even when fed phony data that SHOULD be pointing toward stability or cooling.

The earth is part of a complex system which we have precious little control over. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to lose sleep over producing plant food (CO2) with my activities... especially when a single volcanic eruption can and does produce more greenhouse gasses in a week or two than humans have produced since the beginning of the industrial revolution - and injects it straight up into the stratosphere to boot.

Are things changing? Sure. Will they continue to? Guaranteed. Is MAN making it happen? We MIGHT be having the SLIGHTEST influence regarding climate, but the more I study it, the less likely it appears to be happening or even possible.

Air quality in other areas is another story entirely - as is clean water and keeping poisons out of the ground and the food chain.

As far as the earth being able to "support" a given population, take a flight over the central US sometime. We are nowhere near a population crisis here or anywhere else for that matter - and as people create more wealth and advance technology, our cumulative lot improves - as does our ability to address REAL crises.

Nope... I believe the whole global warming thing is a political tool for political gain. Many are making millions off of it, curtailing human liberties and garnering power through it.

If you really want to worry, head over to one of my favorite sites and enjoy some light reading: http://www.exitmundi.nl

While I do agree us humans are spoiling the planet and causing our own downfall, I have serious trouble believing the fact we will only have 50 years to live.

I do not have any more to say.

Edit Wait, yes I do! Scientists have found out that global warming is a natural process. We, man, are stimulating it with cars, factories, etc. But are we really accelerating it a thousand billion gazillion fold? No, not really. Natural resources running out? Yep. Totally. But is stuff being done against it? Again, sure. Oh, and 9 billion people on the Earth? Err, no. Last time I read statistics, it was 6.5 billion. And that was a couple of months ago.

personaly, I think it would be interesting (though not safe, and deffinatly not cumftable) to see the end

Oh, yes. Interesting, certainly. But I prefer not seeing it.

I laugh when he says "After it's all melted, there will be no more ice to cool the planet." indicating we're killing the planet. like.... LOL!!!! that's hilarious. He really over-looked the cause/effect game on that.

watch Daisy Planet and you'll know what I mean...

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003763/flash/gaia1.htm

If you DON'T know what I mean... well... think.

I am kind of worried too. I never looked into it as much, but who does? Everyone, really allmost everyone is like: Ahhh, that isn't going to happen, it is exaggerated.

I think that if everything is true what they say about global warming, and to some extend I think it is pretty darn true, then most people will only see that fact when it is allready to late...

pretty fucked here in the Nethelands... I just hope mankind will survive...

-

Or we could nerve-gas all the western countries ,the middle-east and asia, that might stop the global warming

But then again, humans living through something tragic like this could further ourselves. Perhaps it is a necessary course of action towards a higher cause.

exactly...its unavoidable, inevitable, and necessary to push humanity forward.

So what if 95% of all people on the planet die? Humans are about as stubborn a species as they come. We have to be dragged kicking and screaming into change (in this case, dying). However, as a group organism we will probably still survive and be stronger for it. We have been overpopulating the planet for a few generations now and have killed more species that we can count so if you ask me we have it coming...There is only so long you can avoid your come-up-ance before it comes to get you...

But hey, look at the bright side, at least you can say you got to live at the peak of human civilization. Not many generations can say that. Most would say; I saw famine, war, disease, etc...(the endless list goes on).


On a different note, how come nearly all cultures have a flood story myth around the same time period? Maybe this isn't the first time humanity has had a global catastrophe with a near mass extinction event. Perhaps humanity has been crushed only to rise again many times over, and it just takes us a while to forget what has already happened and how to avoid it. Afterall, the great pyramids have conjecture over when they were actually built. Some believe they have been around alot longer than what some Egyptologists say. We are even beginning to find some ancient underwater pyramids in Japan that are much older than Egypt's. There is just too much inconclusive data we still don't know about our own pasts.

http://www.lightnet.co.uk/informer/c...ions/japan.htm

Here's an interesting perspective on the whole "global warming" thing:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=77195

From David Deming's prepared congressional testimony:

"In 1995, I published a short paper in the academic journal Science. In that study, I reviewed how borehole temperature data recorded a warming of about one degree Celsius in North America over the last 100 to 150 years. The week the article appeared, I was contacted by a reporter for National Public Radio. He offered to interview me, but only if I would state that the warming was due to human activity. When I refused to do so, he hung up on me."

Another incident he cites is when a major researcher contacted him about the pressing need to "get rid of" the "The Medieval Warm Period (MWP)" because it flies in the face of what they are working so hard (and so successfully) to promote.

(This goes back to that hockey stick, too - when the mathematical models are tested by feeding the REAL environmental data leading up to both the MWP and the "little ice age" that followed it, they STILL come up with that "hockey stick" graph that is supposed to scare us all into abandoning life as we know it.)

hmmmm. A conspiracy theory.

Regardless of whether or not it is do to us or a general cycle, I think there is enough evidence that we should be alarmed to the fact that changes are occurring.

Oh, it's unodoubtful that they plan on using Global Warming as a scare tactic to take advantage of the masses. It's what they do. It's what they THRIVE on.

It's too bad the sheep have no idea how to fight it.

Originally Posted by OneRyt

Oh, it's unodoubtful that they plan on using Global Warming as a scare tactic to take advantage of the masses. It's what they do. It's what they THRIVE on.

It's too bad the sheep have no idea how to fight it.
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What advantages might those be?
I certainly agree that scare tactics go on all the time. Most derived from the government that have any impact.
But as far as I can tell most governments would much rather not try to combat global warming with all the complications it would bring economically.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

hmmmm. A conspiracy theory.

Regardless of whether or not it is do to us or a general cycle, I think there is enough evidence that we should be alarmed to the fact that changes are occurring.
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I wouldn't go so far as to call it a Conspiracy Theory. What it seems to me is an opportunity for many things - zillions of dollars in government grants to researchers, attention-getting headlines to media, power-grabbing opportunities to authoritarians and an end-of-the-world scenario ripe for the wannabe messiahs. It's too convenient for too many, and so the lemmings flock off along the path of least resistance.

In My Humble Opinion, of course. We've watched it happen too many times now - every single time to just quietly fade into oblivion once enough evidence stacks up to debunk the whole thing.

Big scary things get attention, and a lot of people, governments, lawyers and businesses exist and thrive on attention and fear. It doesn't take a clandestine group of shadows behind the scenes to coordinate it. All it takes is the combination of human insecurity and fear of death, coupled with the equally human characteristics of greed and arrogance.

Originally Posted by pj

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a Conspiracy Theory. What it seems to me is an opportunity for many things - zillions of dollars in government grants to researchers, attention-getting headlines to media, power-grabbing opportunities to authoritarians and an end-of-the-world scenario ripe for the wannabe messiahs. It's too convenient for too many, and so the lemmings flock off along the path of least resistance.

In My Humble Opinion, of course. We've watched it happen too many times now - every single time to just quietly fade into oblivion once enough evidence stacks up to debunk the whole thing.

Big scary things get attention, and a lot of people, governments, lawyers and businesses exist and thrive on attention and fear. It doesn't take a clandestine group of shadows behind the scenes to coordinate it. All it takes is the combination of human insecurity and fear of death, coupled with the equally human characteristics of greed and arrogance.
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Good point pj. Your last paragraph is all to scary in itself.

In latter years there , as you said , were many debunked theories. Today we have some geographical evidence of some of the side effects of global warming.

• In Alaska ( I don't know if you have ever been there) they have post markers where the receding glaciers have been in the past years. As you get to more recent years the spread gets closer in years/ recession. The snowball effect.

• Pieces of the Antarctic the size of Rhode Island have fallen off.

• temperatures in the gulf stream that travel into the northern hemisphere are at record highs.

The ocean temerature data may be a a false data, I don't know.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

[color=#003300]
Good point pj. Your last paragraph is all to scary in itself.
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Hey... I'm not saying global warming isn't happening. It might be! What I'm saying is that there is evidence it has happened before - in both directions, in the course of human history, and that we've survived it. Core drillings revealing thousands of years of CO2 data show wild fluctuations in CO2 levels throughout history - and that in fact the earth is enjoying a period (geological period, albiet) of extremely LOW CO2 levels right now. Is it really warming, or do we just see it that way from our incredibly narrow perspective?

It goes on.

Something you don't hear people talking about much, for some reason, are things like the increase in the sun's radiation output right now and evidence of long solar cycles overlaying the known seven-year cycles that coordinate amazingly well with the earth's ice ages and warm periods. You don't hear about fossil evidence that the arctic regions were once tropical.

You also don't hear about the potential BENEFITS of global warming - if in fact it is even happening. During that MWP, crops flourished and people prospered as growing seasons got longer, less fuel was needed during winters, fauna thrived and with it hunting yields and more.

And here we are looking at the last hundred years of human activity coinciding with what really amounts to the tiniest of fluctuations in temperature and deciding that we really should kill off 3/4 of our population, scrap all automobiles, industry and most energy usage, quit farming and all else, choosing to believe that THIS particular time it really IS us and that it is up to us to "save the planet." It is kind of nutty to even look at the past couple centuries and call it "normal" at all. What if THIS is the aberration, and we're just now starting to come out of it?

And people lay awake at night worrying about this stuff when they could be having perfectly wonderful lucid dreams!