Thread: Pornography: Who here has been a victim of it.

Whats up with this weird old fashioned prejuidice that porn, and sex and intimacy are evil, and shouldnt be seen?
Why the hell do you care anyways? Dont like it, dont watch it.
But just because you dont like it, it doesnt seem to be ethical IN YOUR OPINION, just ignore it or something, dont go making a fuss about it! Why cant people just allow other people to do what the hell they want, if guys want to watch porn let them, they're not hurting anyone, if women want to do it as a job, let them. Shield your kids from it, but dont act like its an immoral thing to do and that it should be illegal. Its not your right to judge that.

A lively discussion! The pros are putting up a better argument than the cons, I think. My problem with 98% of the porn out there is that it upholds the idea that sex is dirty. It doesn't speak to the varieties of natural sexuality, but instead repeats a series of lame fetish images over and over. I think this taboo/fetish dichotomy in our culture leads to bad sex.

As for the industry:

Neil wrote: *you can't criticise an object itself based on the way the object is obtained.[/b]

Yes, you can. When you buy a product, you are funding the continuation of the process that created it. If that process involved misery, coercion, and desperation, then you are funding a more miserable, coercive, and desparate future. It's simple cause and effect.

who the hell buys porn?
you can download it

and i totally agree with CT!
as long as no one gets hurt they can make all the porn they want!

and if anyone has a problame with it they should take a look at them selves and see what it is and not blame anyone alse for it!

it's kinda like: guns dont kill people - people kill people!
and its the same with drugs
and with porn
and with prostetution
and gambling
and religion

so basically what i'm saying is.... once you abuse something it's wrong... and as long as it's in good taste and no one get's hurt... LET IT BE !
(and you know what they say about taste... can't argue about that )

Sex. Sex is something sacred. To be shared with two people.

These two people who are commiting the act of sexual intercourse have something between them that no other being should see. It is sacred. It is holy, above all else.

Sex is meant for 2 people's eyes, and their eyes only.

Sex is not meaningless...it is the only physical act that involves NOT only the body, but the SOUL too...no matter how much you argue, if you have had sex you will realize that it is deeper than just an orgasm, or pleasure, it involves deeper commitment, and should never be abused, such as with a stranger, or for an audience.

so.............
you think we should outlaw porn? censure TV? make everyone wear decent cloths?
ristrict and bind our minds? marry younger?
just to keep the act of sex pure?

For heaven's sake, why is sex sacred ? WHY ?

IZ, I feel sorry for you that you believe that those who like porn are corrupted because you don't even realise that these "morals" have been plucked out of the air.

Originally posted by Lowercase Society+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lowercase Society)</div>

Sex. *Sex is something sacred. *To be shared with two people. *

These two people who are commiting the act of sexual intercourse have something between them that no other being should see. It is sacred. It is holy, above all else.

Sex is meant for 2 people's eyes, and their eyes only.

Sex is not meaningless...it is the only physical act that involves NOT only the body, but the SOUL too...no matter how much you argue, if you have had sex you will realize that it is deeper than just an orgasm, or pleasure, it involves deeper commitment, and should never be abused, such as with a stranger, or for an audience.

[/b]

Indeed an interesting viewpoint my friend. A valid one, but the gift of laying it on thick is strong within you.

There is nothing wrong with pornography, it panders to one of the most basic human instincts. the need to procreate. It is ingrained into our DNA and basic behavioural patterns. It satiates the need to procreate within those who are unlucky enough not to have a mate.

Originally posted by IZ@
But if you think that porn is a good thing then you are a corrupted soul.

Ha! A true christian statement if I ever heard one! I suppose you think the devil was always in the bible too.

Throughout our history, one society after another has erected elaborate social constraints to control and channel the instincts governing sexual behavior which we inherit from our ancestors. Most social systems have tried to keep women monogamous, and their mates committed to help raising the children. Some attach high value to preventing females from copulating until they are properly married, i.e. the virginity complex. Others have tried, with indifferent success, to keep husbands from playing around on the side as well. Probably this effort to control our primitive sex drives has become as much a part of human nature as the language learning instinct.
Something so ingrained into our minds is bound to overflow to some aspect of our lives sooner or later.

<!--QuoteBegin-CT
Whats up with this weird old fashioned prejuidice that porn, and sex and intimacy are evil, and shouldnt be seen? *
Why the hell do you care anyways? Dont like it, dont watch it. *
But just because you dont like it, it doesnt seem to be ethical IN YOUR OPINION, just ignore it or something, dont go making a fuss about it! Why cant people just allow other people to do what the hell they want, if guys want to watch porn let them, they're not hurting anyone, if women want to do it as a job, let them. Shield your kids from it, but dont act like its an immoral thing to do and that it should be illegal. Its not your right to judge that.

Brilliant! He has a very valid point. These morals and viewpoints come from an era where people actively thought with every fibre of their being that they were going to burn in purgatory for all of eternity if they strayed from the churches teachings.


This topic itself may have been a result of hormones. Perhaps a result of that \"disgusted with self\" feeling after the act. That is not the result of your morality kicking in. The copious amounts of hormones that compelled you to \"do the deed\" have just taken a sharp nosedive, leaving you with nothing but pornography and your ding dong in your hand. A natural reaction would be to blame the subject of your lust. However you must look to the cellular level to see the true cause.

Pornography is only truly a problem when it begins to interfere with aspects of your social life.
e.g. Not going out with friends so you can stay home and masturbate.

This may be the thought of many, that everyone who owns pornography is like this. However this is not true, like many other aspects of society; some take it to extremes, consciously or subconsciously.

I suppose this arguement will go the way of politics and religion. Oh well, we can't please everyone.

Originally posted by simisu
who the hell buys porn? *
you can download it

Originally posted by Lowercase Society
Sex. *Sex is something sacred. *To be shared with two people. *
...
Sex is meant for 2 people's eyes, and their eyes only.

Sex is not meaningless...it is the only physical act that involves NOT only the body, but the SOUL too...

Couldn't agree more. (...Actually I could since I believe that even further sex is created for a man and a woman - who are married - but that's 'nother can o'worms)

Porn is twisted and destructive. Nearly all sex criminals have been connected to a porn-based lifestyle or at least a connection to porn. That should say something...

The porn industry (including those who consume porn) seem hell-bent on proving that sex is not sacred. I don't think the word is in their vocabulary. Many make the claim that we are simply animals or without souls/spirits or "eternal consequence." If we're animals, then why don't we behave like them without any moral convictions? In other words, we are moral beings and everyone has a conscience (though some people choose to sear thir own consciences) So the "amoral" approach or argument carries no weight. If you at least say that porn is not immoral, it is the same as saying porn IS moral (good). Yet with all the negative fruit, how can anyone say that porn is good for anyone?

It seems some (CT, Neil, Lome, and maybe some others) are making the argument that morality is subjective or "each is to his own" as far as moral judgments go. If that is true, then we have no grounds for judging the pedophile, necrophile, or any other perverted wanker ('scuse my English) out there. If morality is subjective, there is no authoritative standard. But someone must be the one to make the final judgment on where the line is crossed from moral to immoral in regards to porn. How would you choose this person or authority. There's a double standard there, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by evangel

Porn is twisted and destructive. Nearly all sex criminals have been connected to a porn-based lifestyle or at least a connection to porn. That should say something...

That doesn't make sense at all. What if I said nearly all sex criminals ate a donut once in their life, I guess we should outlaw donuts because they cause people to become sex criminals.

By the way there are animals who mate for life and with only one mate. So having sex with a ton of different people isn't something I would call natural.

What if I said nearly all sex criminals ate a donut once in their life, I guess we should outlaw donuts because they cause people to become sex criminals.[/b]

What YOU are saying makes non sense because it is fallacious reasoning, but what I was obviously IMPLYING is that porn usually has some sort of contribution in a sex criminal's view of what is right and wrong in regards to sexual behavior.

Porn has been linked to ALL kinds of violent and sexual criminal behavior by valid sociological and psychological studies. The following example is exerpted from an article following Ted Bundy's (a serial rapist, child molester, and murderer) execution.

\"My experience with pornography ... is once you become addicted to it, (and I look at this as a kind of addiction like other kinds of addiction), I would keep looking for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something that is harder, something which gives you a greater sense of excitement. Until you reach a point where the pornography only goes so far, you reach that jumping off point where you begin to wonder if maybe actually doing it would give you that which is beyond just reading or looking at it.\"

Within a few years, those latent desires fueled by pornography were expressed through his first murder. Although Bundy said he did not blame pornography, he explained that pornographic materials shaped and molded his behavior. He also warned the nation that \"the most damaging kinds of pornography ... are those that involve violence and sexual violence. Because the wedding of those two forces, as I know only too well, brings out the hatred that is just, just too terrible to describe.\" [/b]

Here's the rest: http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0332..._Ted_Bundy.html

Ok donuts is bad but only because I was trying to show why it doesn't make sense. Something closer would saying something like, most criminals own a gun so guns should be outlawed since they cause crime. Its just as true as with the donuts but people still argue that and same goes for porn.

There was a male gerbal at a pet shot somewhere in the united states, it broke out of it's cage and got into another cage filled with 23 female gerbals. It had sex with every gerbal in that cage in a single night (lucky bastard). So I guess that's grounds for argument that sex with dozens of different partners is natural.

How do you always know which is the cause, and which is the effect? You can take anything to an extreme and have it turn into a bad thing (Looking for extreme sports thrills, drinking, smoking, television)

Some people are under the assumption that listening to violent music, watching violent television, and playing violent video games makes you a violent person. That's incrediblly ignorant considering that fact that they have the same stuff (it's even more popular I heard) in other countries, yet they don't have nearly as much youth-violence as we do (I'm reffering to the United states when I say we). But I'm not saying that it can't lead to violence, I'm just saying it's highly unlikely.

EDIT: Whoops, I posted this a little late, I wasn't referring to Ted Bundy (If you read my post before I edited it)

Originally posted by Death&#045;Wuad

Evangel, how do you know porn caused him to be a sex criminal? Rather than being a sexual deviant causing him to watch porn?

Yea that was pretty much my point.

I never made such a claim...

This is what I said:

porn usually has some sort of contribution in a sex criminal's view of what is right and wrong in regards to sexual behavior. [/b]

If you don't think that argument is strong enough in pointing out the insidious nature of porn, there are several studies that support the claim that no good comes from porn... Bundy's (and other sex and porn fiends') own testimonies are, to me, much more powerful than any scientific evidence or proof that as you asserted that may support the argument that "porn causes sex crimes.."

If you read the entire interview with Bundy, he testifies explicitly that his perversion began "innocently" by reading and viewing soft core porn, which eventually progressed to more twisted porn... leading to addiction and then perverted and criminal behavior. Pretty convincing testimony if you ask me.

I am a victim of porn also... I used to view it a lot, which led to me even going to a few strip clubs. The visual impact of pornography is so powerfully engraved, that I probably will not be able to enjoy sex in its rightful context (with the woman I will marry and love):
that is with intimacy, exclusivity, and emotional connection. I will still experience these things, but not without the memories of the images that I have poisoned my mind with - and not with the intensity and purity that I would like, now having learned my lesson.

If you read the entire interview with Bundy, he testifies explicitly that his perversion began \"innocently\" by reading and viewing soft core porn, which eventually progressed to more twisted porn... leading to addiction and then perverted and criminal behavior. Pretty convincing testimony if you ask me.[/b]

Well how do you know he wasn't going to turn into a sexual deviant without porn? He could just have naturally been a very sex craving loon. But even if it does manage to turn people into complete psychpaths, that doesn't mean the rest of the community needs to have their porn-privileges lost. It's like achohol, some people turn it into their only agenda, but that doesn't necessarily mean that alcohol is evil.

And maybe he turned out like that because he was exposed to it at such a young age? A child suddenly being immersed into anything they aren't familiar with is going to exhibit different reactions than somebody who learns about this stuff more maturely and much slower.

EDIT: There is a reason for the viewing of pornography being illegal until you are old enough to handle it.

Still... I've heard of no good tat comes of it. Therefore, arguments FOR porn hold no weight in my book. I never said, nor am I implying that porn causes psychosis or directly causes crime. I'm saying only that it is often linked (and obviously changes one's view of what sex is, how it should be "peformed" etc.), and that in my own experience, it is mental and spiritual POISON.

Great topic guys! Interesting and intelligent discussion going on

Originally posted by evangel
If morality is subjective, there is no authoritative standard. But someone must be the one to make the final judgment on where the line is crossed from moral to immoral in regards to porn. How would you choose this person or authority. There's a double standard there, I think.

Exactly.

~i agree w/ evangel & lowercase on many things they've said...it's hard to dictate/try to control morality in a society so i don't really know if trying to "outlaw" pornography is such a good plan...i mean, people should be given the chioce to do the right thing or do the wrong thing...someone said something earlier about how if porn was suddenly removed from the world that there would be a huge wave of rapes throughout the world...i disagree & here's why: rape is less about sex and more about control and hate etc (correct me if i'm wrong)...i'd have to say that there was probably less porn 60years ago(taking an educated leap of a guess;p)and i'd venture to say that there were also less sexual crimes...it seems to me that there may be a connection between the 2(pornography and sex crimes)...i'm not saying that porn is the only thing to blame but i feel it plays a part....
~you all have a great day;p

no exploitations!!!

Originally posted by evangel
If morality is subjective, there is no authoritative standard. But someone must be the one to make the final judgment on where the line is crossed from moral to immoral in regards to porn. How would you choose this person or authority. There's a double standard there, I think.

NO!!! Nobody should make the final judgement!!! Who is worthy, to command what other people can and cant do, if they're not causing harm? Do as you please, but your freedom ends, where the freedom of another starts. If it causes no harm, even though in your opinion it is disgusting, you should impose that opinion on other people, you have no right to make that descision for other people. Proving that porn causes harm however, is a whole other discussion. But, as you said so any argument FOR porn holds no value in your opinion, and your general dislike towards porn will make impossible to justify it for you, and most other people.
Before the people who have different opinions that me are going to quote me line by line i\'d like to say that i\'m not that good with words, I usually have difficulty accurately portraying my opinions on several matters, which is why I hardly post in this section. Add the fact that english is not my 1st language. So instead of picking my post apart, taking it litterally and magnifying the possibly contradictions try to see the message i\'m trying to get across... I\'m not good at it, I know.... but I hate when in order to \'win\' the argument people are gonna take it apart and out of context and ramble about a moot point... which i\'ve seen alot in this forum. I cant hold my own in such debates, so dont get me in one please...

"teensy-text"!!

Anyway, CT's got a point. Let's all make sure we debate issues and not semantics. Unless you're just messing around to be messing around. Then I say knock yourselves out, woohooo!

I actually came up with my own phrase with concern over not just pornography but sin in general.
temtation lies wait for everyone, left enchecked could be their demise.