Thread: revolution

these are my ideas so far.

-there will be at least one king. the king is a true king not a tyrant...... serving the people
-the organization will not sponsor any one thing. for ex. a politician not a political party
-the organization will not restict its powers in any way shape or form thus delving into all humaity and its hitory, issues, knowledge, wisdom, etc....
-no war (i think some force might have to be used though)
-laws are gods (of israel) laws. as is commandments, etc.... which is not bad even for other religions and what not. for example love thy neighbor.


these are the only issues that i am really set upon. i leave the rest up to the people

Hey I've been thinking almost exactly the same thing... you haven't been im my head lately have you? Weird.

My kinda revolution is mainly a knowledge one though, based on making all human knowledge a unified form... I've been meaning to write it into a proper essay for ages, but been too busy with my novel.

Write yours into an essay, it'll help you to think it through. I'm interested in this whole 'one king' thing - how much power, and what role would he/she have? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutley...

i predict that wizard is the next sitboy

Well, he said it would be "at least one king". I would think there should be 2 kings, but only one queen. Then the kings will have to fight with giant Q tips, American Gladiator style, every night to see who takes the queen to bed that night....

P.S. I don't think wizard will be the next sitboy...he's far too much of an intelectual and a scholar for that. Kudos, wizard!

Originally posted by wizard+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wizard)</div>

-no war (i think some force might have to be used though)
[/b]

So, a war would be needed for the initial uprising, a 'holy war', you honestly think that one single organisation can control 6 billion people? It's ignorant to believe that everyone will be happy and any war will be easily quashed. Free will is somthing that humans aspire for, no single group can govern, humanity simply won't let it happen. War is needed for peace, go read '1984', ther is war in that world, but not within the area 'Big Brother' controls, they do go to war, but only to further thier domination. 'Big Brother' rules through fear, which brings me to my next point:

<!--QuoteBegin-wizard

-laws are gods (of israel) laws. as is commandments, etc.... which is not bad even for other religions and what not. for example love thy neighbor.

Okay, picture this, 'You country is taken over by a strange cult, who see ritual sacrafice of lama's and other odd things thier Gods laws (okay, bad analogy), forcing you to live by these rules. These rules are an alien concept to you, some seeming imorral. Anyone who tries to fight against is quickly disposed of by "some force", fear of this force is ruling you.' Picture that, hoe do you think to holy peopl of the cut are feeling now? Are they humble and content with thier power? No, of course they're not, humanity gets drunk on power, back to analogy. 'The people in power are now tripping on thier power, they have your country in a vice like grip, there is no way that they will let go, but how do they keep this power? They sit and ponder this for a while, soon they realise that thier own rules can be twisted in order to gain more and more power. Soon thier rules have changed beyond recognition, no one dares question the change, in fear of the ruling cult. The lama rule is no that you must sacrifice a familly member once a month, unless you do enough work for the cult. By now, the peoples spirits have been crushed and they can't do anything without the cult knowing about it. Any mistakes are harshly punished. The cult is impossible to defeat, no escape, no freedom, no creativity, no point in life.' That wasn't '1864 there, though it did reflect it in some points. All people with power, no mater how holy they think they are, get twisted by power, it is human nature, the curse of humanity.

Can you honestly say, this won't happen to you?

-there will be at least one king. the king is a true king not a tyrant...... serving the people [/b]

power corrupts. If there were one ruler, he/she would inevidibly have too much power. The idea of a king is anachronistic nowdays anyways. Why have all the power in one person who is expert in a fraction of the issues facing a government?

A bureaucracy is the natural evolution of the vaccum of expertise left by a small ruling class. We'd be back where we started. Maybe instead we could move foward to the idea of a decentralised \"government\" of seperate committees of areas of expertise.

-the organization will not sponsor any one thing. for ex. a politician not a political party [/b]

The implications of \"the organisation\" is that \"the orgainisation\" is sponsored over anything else. Also, how is sponsoring a political party not sponsoring any one thing?

-the organization will not restict its powers in any way shape or form thus delving into all humaity and its hitory, issues, knowledge, wisdom, etc.... [/b]

Obviously there are some things that are either:

1. Not worth delving in to
2. Shouldn't be delved into

Both are extremely subjective, why would \"the organisations\" subjectivity be imposed as objective standards on people? For example, I think that astrology is a prime example of 1. Lots of people actually believe in astrology - would it be delved into? An example of 2. would be eugenics. Not cool.

-no war (i think some force might have to be used though)[/b]

Sooooooooo... dictatorship? \"Don't kill anyone or we'll kill you... and your family\". Okok that was blown out of proportion. But the idea of no war enforced with violence/submission just screams fascism.

-laws are gods (of israel) laws. as is commandments, etc.... which is not bad even for other religions and what not. for example love thy neighbor. [/b]

Sooooo... theocratic dictatorship? Commandment one: "You shall have no other gods before me". Unless of course you plan to pick and choose which commandments to follow - of course if you do that, why not just cut the pretense and define a new set of standards to follow.

And by the way, "love thy neighbour" isn't a commandment. Why pick that over the laws of leviticus (which is given no less/more importance than the so called "ten commandments" by the way.

By gods(of israel) you mean the abrahamic god, yah? Wait, maybe you meant go back further! Lets all worship canaan. No wait, sumerian gods were here first.

All hail marduuk, slayer of tiamat! *worship*

-spoon

Ja, gambattte! That's the spirit, wizard: don't be intimidated by anything, anyone -- don't be afraid to trust yourself!

Please inform me if you make any headway!

No offense meant at all, but I strongly suggest you research some historical governments and governmental structures before posting any ideas you have. The "ideas" given are not very well formulated, and are, frankly, a handful of 'pleasant' ideas mixed together. You fail to give some explanation or insight into your thoughts as well.

For example,

What of the economy? Can this government structure support a large amount of people? What are the people entitled to? How do you enforce the laws and promote ideologies without crossing the ethical boundaries? The boundaries of human life?

Answer these questions to yourself and realize the problems of your ideas, rework, and repeat the process. Take out any problems, and fix things within reasonable boundaries. If you stray too far from reality, edit some things--not all ideas are completely possible.

I find it funny people are taking this thread seriously....

Well, considering this forum isn't called senseless banter....

I would post my idea, but in the making there would have to be a purging of almost everyone. Let's say the world pop is about 11.5 billion. We'll cut that down to about 500 of the purest people we can find. That is why my plan although good and promoting freedom it needs a fresh slate on the earth to be effective.

hahah this time that WAS a joke right?

-spoon

Even though you effectively stop to appearance of random mutations with your small population...the short term effects will be incredibly satisfying.

The offspring will carry the muscle capacity of Arnold, with the brains of Einstein and Hawkings...it will be amazing!

*maniacal laughter*

Oh your good. You get to live. 8)

i am glad that all of you are posting and ask for more. i dont know about this any more and am almost ready to demolish this post. now i am just getting knowledge and if it turns favorable i may very well do it. also please only pst regarding the topic and dont fill this with junk post. think of others who read. if you want to rebuke someone do it through a private message or hold your tongue. amen.



-oath

first off there is no way to have this work the way you have things except for in utopia

Originally posted by wizard+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wizard)</div>

-there will be at least one king. the king is a true king not a tyrant...... serving the people[/b]

kings will be kings WILL BE KINGS there is no way to ensure he wont be a tyrant look at the power he would have so no king or queen.

Originally posted by wizard+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wizard)</div>

-the organization will not sponsor any one thing. for ex. a politician not a political party[/b]

what are you talking about of course i couldn't be sponsored by just one thing people have their own ideas and feelings for things.

Originally posted by wizard
-the organization will not restict its powers in any way shape or form thus delving into all humaity and its hitory, issues, knowledge, wisdom, etc....

unrestricted power.... this is a very bad idea a A VERY VERY BAD IDEA. with unrestricted power there is coruptness. people need restricted power the U.S. goverment is an excelent example of restricted power federal is seperate from state. ....

Originally posted by wizard
-no war (i think some force might have to be used though)

no war ??? never possible except in utopia. once again people have different ideas and feelings towards different things wars are inevitable.

<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@
-laws are gods (of israel) laws. as is commandments, etc.... which is not bad even for other religions and what not. for example love thy neighbor.

what about atheists???
ok for how many centuries have the command mants been around???? and ever since people still break the laws on them and people misinturpret them too. example love thy neighbor's wife. and only possible in utopia.



<!--QuoteBegin-wizard
these are the only issues that i am really set upon. i leave the rest up to the people

now this is a good idea leave it to the people if they wanted to be united let them in there own time... o yes and the usa is already working on a UNITED NATIONS maybe you should take a look at it first it is much better than your idea by far it does not have one supream leader controling it just a bunch of deligates from other countries.

You say you want a revolution....well, you know. We all want to change the world. You tell me that it's evolution...well, you know. We all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction, don't you know that you can count me out? You know it's gonna be alright.

You say you got a real solution...well, you know. We don't all love to see the plan. You ask me for a contribution...well, you know. We're all doing what we can. But if you want money for people with minds that hate. All I can tell you is brother you have to wait. Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

You say you'll change the constitution...well, you know. We all want to change your head. You tell me it's the institution...well, you know. You better free your mind instead. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow. Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

Subtle, Civilization 3 references, perhaps, unintentionally?

i dont understand but i shall try to clear this up. what i mean when i say not supporting any one thing is like i said i wouldnt support the whole political party but rather the ideals of one man/woman (politician) in the party. please use your brains people and think higher. we are capable you know. also what is this crap about things not being possible? didnt you ever listen when you you were little?

note: a wise man will accept this criticism and rebuke me. learning from it. a fool will not accept it, rebuke me, and learn nothing.

wizard, I don't know how old you are, and instead of wasting a post and asking you how old you actually are, I will just let you know that this is not about people "not using their brains" and needing to "think higher". Though the purpose of main idea of it is a very desireable and admirable thing, this is about a very naive concept, built by very limited knowledge and experience on the subject, resembling those that a 10-15(mildly retarded 15 year old, might I add) could probably have. I am not saying you should give up on this, it is your dream and you must follow it, just like I will follow (or try to follow) mine. All that I feel is worth pointing out is that the problem is not that you are thinking too high for us, on a completely different level that any other man. The problem is that, for our great misfortunate, things in this world are just not that simple.

Originally posted by wizard
i dont understand but i shall try to clear this up. what i mean when i say not supporting any one thing is like i said i wouldnt support the whole political party but rather the ideals of one man/woman (politician) in the party.

So 2 questions. When you envisage this grand support of one person's ideals:

1. What makes 1 person better to support than a group of people. Are we talking some sort of Nietzsche-esque elitism? Is the Ubermensch among us?

2. How are the party's ideals and this individual's seperated? Often they go hand in hand/influence eachother. Especially if \"the man\" is supporting one individual's ideals they'd become the that of the party. And don't think an individual is above maniuplation by the majority.

note: a wise man will accept this criticism and rebuke me. learning from it. a fool will not accept it, rebuke me, and learn nothing.[/b]

Thats actually quite funny you say that! Now, which of those 2 categories did you fall in with this response:

"what is this crap about things not being possible" ..... not accepting and learning nothing?

-spoon

ok people i shall tell you a great truth and all will think me insne for it. im getting fed up with this post. i know the future. ther e is no fate by the way....freewill. i can be king of the world if i so choose. there are two problems that i wanted to see if i could change and thats why i started this post.

1. i kind of forced the religion on the world.

2. most humans love to bathe in their sin. hence the world was perfect for about ten years until someone committed murder which caused chaos everywhere. this also caused my wife to commit adultery and i also had a man killed.

- out of all gods emotions i experience his wrath the most

-Oath

Originally posted by wizard
ok people i shall tell you a great truth and all will think me insne for it. im getting fed up with this post. i know the future. ther e is no fate by the way....freewill. i can be king of the world if i so choose. there are two problems that i wanted to see if i could change and thats why i started this post.

1. i kind of forced the religion on the world.

2. most humans love to bathe in their sin. hence the world was perfect for about ten years until someone committed murder which caused chaos everywhere. this also caused my wife to commit adultery and i also had a man killed.

- out of all gods emotions i experience his wrath the most

-Oath

Huh, so you're a seer too, eh? Well guess what? So am I -- and I happen to know that there is no "freewill", it is only an illusion of multiple fates.

You most certainly did not force religion on the world -- religion was created by humans attaching themselves to particular second-tier deities, thinking that said deity or deities were more powerful then they appeared.

There is no such thing as sin, that is a notion born out of religion, which to reiterate, in itself was born out of misinterpretation.

You wanna compare more vision and foreknowledge notes, let's....

PM me and we can talk in more 'insane' detail.