Thread: Saddam

the reason to exicute someone is to remove a violent element from society

I dont fully know what he did, or why he did it, or even how he compais to other leaders, so I will not vote on this. But in the end, you have to ask "Is his death going to help us by removing a murderer, or did we make a mistake, and if he was alive, we would be better off?"

Ding! Dong! The oppressive, genocidal, terrorist dictator is dead! :finger:

It is the best news I have heard in a while. All of the family members and friends of the people he killed (all one million of them) out of pure evil deserve for him to be dead, so I am happy for them. Dictators like him who are still in power know what might happen to them and what the destiny of mankind is starting to look like. It is further affirmation for the Iraqis that Iraq is no longer a dictatorship and can move toward being a successful democracy. And lastly, I personally hated the sack of shit on a major level, so I am very happy about it.

Four people voted it was bad, but did not STATE their reasons.

Im a pro-lifer
murder is muder, it can never be justified
and if Saddam deserves to be hung, he should not have been hung on his own
It would only be justice to hang him, if Mr Bush and Mr Blair were hanging to his left and right.
They have murdered just as many people, (I dont mean justn in Iraq)
If terrorism is commited by white western super-power leaders, it is justified as foregin policy

"Murder is only righteous when done to the sound of trumpets."
Lets fac eit, th eonly reason that Saddam is hanging and not Bush isn because, the USA is more powerful

Death is wrong, killing someone solves nothing. Bloodhsed is wrong.
Imran

I don't understand why people try to defend the fact that he deserved to live. He killed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people. He is a murderer, and started a genocide. Hanging him was merciful. I think he deserved far worse.

^^^^ Also, prove it. How did Bush murder hundreds of thousands of people? When did he start a genocide? I wasn't informed of this.

Hippy.

I don't believe people have the right to kill one anther, even thow he did commit crimes against humanity.
tbh letting him rot in a military prison was alot worse then hanging him.

so i don't know really, i guess im against people killing people but maybe he deserve it so yeah.

I voted good, because a murderous P.O.S. like him doesn't deserve to live, but I guess a life sentence of Solitary Confinement would've been a bigger blow, and less violent.

I think it's a good thing.
Honestly, I value life, especially human life, extraordinarily high. I'm borderlining on pacifist, really. But at the same time, I'm a realist. (Hence the reason I'm not a full-out pacifist)
So, I accept that a single death, when it prevents further harm to society as a whole, is a good thing.
Saddam wasn't a nice guy. He was a murderer, a fascist, and in general a disgrace to humankind.
Good riddance.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Four people voted it was bad, but did not STATE their reasons.
[/b]

Because it is not right to kill a fellow human being and everybody diserves to live.

Excuse me? A genoice? Hudnreds and thousands of people?
and the US government have consisntely shown support for opressive dictators and aided them.
You dont pun the gun on trial, you trial the man who pulled the trigger.
Pol Pot's infamous Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
The countless innocents kileld in Iraq, the countless innocents killed in Afghanistan.
The countless innocents kileld in Lebanon due to Americas reluctance to order a sieze fire when the rest of the world was screaming for one.

A minimum of 51,897 to 57,452 civilian deaths up to 27 December, 2006—as compiled from English-language media reports by the Iraq Body Count project (IBC). Reported civilian deaths due to insurgent/military action and increased criminal violence. [2]

btw thts civillian deaths in Iraq

Mr Bush is a western terrorist
Mr Hussien is an eastern one.
M Bush is a victorious one.
Mr Hussein is a defeated one.
Mr Bush is a living one.
Mr Hussein is a dead one.

He was a bastard. But he didnt deserve to die, in my eyes, taking a life solves nothing.
And if he did, there are others that should ahve ung with him

Imran

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Because it is not right to kill a fellow human being and everybody diserves to live.
[/b]

While I may disagree and I was pretty accurate in my assumption to why people voted no. At least have the guts to state your reason, even if you do not feel you would be in the majority.

I appreciate your views. It has irrefutable logic to it.

He was a bastard. But he didnt deserve to die, in my eyes, taking a life solves nothing.
And if he did, there are others that should ahve ung with him[/b]

The death penalty can have a great impact if it inflicted fear in future killers. It obviously does not have the same impact on a marter. As they feel dieing is their calling for their cause. It also does not have an impact when some convicted felon sits on death row for 4o years and has as many appeals to go along with it.

If looked at in that manner he would have been better off rotting in a cell.

The death penalty can get very complicated.
Is it eye for an eye?

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

Plus I would like to make one point, I dont know which thread somebody said this in, but someone said that Saddam was judged by the Iraqi people. He was NOT. HE was judged bu puppets of America, corupt fools on the payroll of the US.

If it asnt for America we wwould still have the ICC, (international criminal court)
and people like Saddam, Blair and Bush could face their crimes there.

Imran

p.s it would be nice to open a thread for the discussion of the death penalty.

I think Imran is very wise in what he's saying about his choice. His death is supposed to justify these countless other deaths, but the West helped him do this, encouraging and giving the resources to do so, so the West is just as to blame as he is, I believe. I haven't voted though, since I haven't got a clue whether it's a good thing or not, though I suspect in the end, it'll turn out to have made no difference.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Excuse me? A genoice? Hudnreds and thousands of people?
and the US government have consisntely shown support for opressive dictators and aided them.
[/b]

Oh, really? Yes, Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of people, tortured many more. He wasn't going around killing random people, he was trying to kill off a religion or race or somesuch. I'd like to see proof of the US trying to commit genocide.

Originally Posted by imran_p

HE was judged bu puppets of America, corupt fools on the payroll of the US.
[/b]

Yeah... What country are YOU from, imran? Am I a corrupt fool because I live in the US?

What? I never said that at all, get your facts straight. I was syaing that the people who were judging him, (the new iraqi government) are corrupt fools o nthe payroll of America. i would suggest reading posts thouroughly bfore making accusations. And no, Saddam was not commiting genociide or you would of told me who against. He was a muslim himself, his vice was a christian. The people he was killing were mainly political opponents. This is not genoicide, it is wrong, but not genoicide. I do suggest you back your statents up. You claim he was commiting genocide against "some group of people.2
Baltantly meaning you dont know and you are making random points with no bCKING.

And once again, read posts thouroughly, ok?

Imran

p.s Im from the UK, which at the moment considering our invovlement in Iraq is a great source of embarassment for me
=D

Alright, I should've read the posts more thoroughly. I still don't understand why you think Bush and Blair deserve to be hanged with him, though.

Killing one more person helps nothing. Killing him would just be taking revenge, and thus silly.

And have you people see that lame-ass execution? Jesus Christ, I would expect a country with a 'democracy' and a 'elected government' (of which all it's people are in exile for safety reasons) would be able to provide better executions then some silly-men screaming around with masks on, somewhere in a basement or so it looked.

Ok now we've cleared you misudnerstanding.
I do not think they deserve to hang because i dont think Saddam does. Nobody deserves to die, death solves nothing. Life is precious.

But following the laws Saddam was kileld for, so Blair and Bush also deserve death.
They have, ordered the death of thousands. Supported regimes that have done this too.
Provided economic backing for genocide (Khmer Rouge)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_Third.../US_PolPot.html

The Us have a histroy of supporting corruopt regimes

Have you heard of the last Shah of Iran?
Mr Reza Palahvi (pardon my speling) have yioyu ehard of him/
and his infamous secret police SAVAK.
muderous, yet US supported him, actually they put him in power.

pleaser read, be open minded

your President is a murderer in the highest degree.
and so is my embarassing fool of a prime minister

Imran

In reality, personally I think his death is a bad thing. I don't agree with the death penalty, and I don't agree with an eye-for-an-eye in this case. His life was taken, he took many lives. That solves nothing. He did deserve to die, but however, think of the effect this will have on the war, and politically, economically. First, Iraq is going to go into a heavy civil war. The conflict between the Sunni and the Shi'ites will nothing but intensify, and the UN will have to completely seize control of the country. Not to mention send more troops over to deal with the impending conflict. More and more money will be put into the military, and taken from other important things. Also not to mention that the impending seizure of control of the UN and America will do nothing but increase hostilities against Western society, and likely be a gateway to terrorism which this war in Iraq had nothing to do with in the first place.

Its a good thing Saddam was removed from power, and that would likely improve the country, but his death is going to drive the country to a bigger and more intense war, with more suicide bombings and more deaths which the country will not recover from for centuries. And our Western society will continue to try and stabalize the country putting more and more money into it. So not only is this bad for Iraq, its bad for us. I dont think I even have to mention the number of troop casualties we'll suffer.

I'm praying that either Bush gets impeached, or the new President (in 2008) will be a smart leader and have a good plan to deal with this.

Originally Posted by imran_p

But following the laws Saddam was kileld for, so Blair and Bush also deserve death.
[/b]

I quoted that statement because it sums up most of what you keep saying. You seem to have some incredibly severe hatred for my country and the country from which we are a spin-off, and I don't quite get why. The United States has allied with some bad people, and some of those alliances have gone in really bad directions, but as far as I know our alliances have always been set up for the right reasons. We allied with the Hussein regime because we had a common enemy, Iran. In the beginning, we did not quite know what we were dealing with, and we did not know the terrible turns against us the Hussein regime would later take. The alliance turned out to be a mistake, but hindsight is 20/20.

We allied with the Soviet Union in World War II because we had the common enemy of the Nazis. Our alliance was necessary to save the world, including you. I hope you have appreciation for at least that much of the sacrifices my military has made. 1.1 million Americans were either killed or injured in World War II, and no matter how much you talk about "U.S. interests", the fact is that those soldiers did have saving the entire world in mind when they were going through nightmares worse than you or I will ever know. Both of my grandfathers survived it, and they would have told you that they were fighting for a great deal more than U.S. interests. We also prevented the Soviet Union from taking over the world. We used their weak system, communism, against them as we crippled their economy with the arms race. Now those people are free. You have no idea how fortunate you are that we did that. Fighting the Vietnam War, where 55,000 American soldiers sacrificed their lives for the future of the world, was part of the fight to stop the Soviets (North Vietnam was their puppet.) from taking over the world. That is just some of what my country has done for you.

I don't expect you to worship my country or to even show appreciation. I am just baffled by the immense hatred I see from people. Bush's intentions can at least be debatably presented as good for the future of the world. But nobody disputes the fact that Hussein was all about Hussein. He did commit genocide and mindless terrorism. He ran his country with fear tactics. People were killed for breathing the wrong way. Anybody suspected of the slightest opposition was never seen again. People were tortured to death in front of their family members. I am talking about hundreds of thousands of people. Do you know anything about the sarin gas (a WMD) attack on the Kurds? Hussein was genocidal. That is a fact. He supported Hamas and provided financial incentives to the families of suicide bombers. Can you tell me what good things the Hussein regime did for the world? Of course not. What has Bush done that is equally evil? Innocents have been killed in this present very necessary war (44,000... But some sources seem to enjoy saying as high as 2 million, which is a crock), but it has not been U.S. policy to target civilians. It was Hussein's policy, but we have not been doing that. The insurgents, which America bashers never talk about unless they are condoning their actions, have been targetting civilians, not us. Well, you might find a very few examples of deviant soldiers in our bunch of 140,000. We have gone through a lot of trouble to use precision weapons when we could easily do what Hussein would have done if he had had our level of power. We could turn the Middle East into a sheet of glass with oil refineries all over it in a very short time. Do you doubt for even a second that Hussein would have done that and worse if he had had our level of power? Instead, we announce to civilians when we are going to attack, use precision weapons, lose our own soldiers, and put up with highly heated controversy from even our own allies and our own citizens. Would Hussein have done all of that? Would he have ever even talked about freeing a country? There is NO comparison.

How sure are you that Iraq will not end up being a successful democracy in the long run? If they do, can you see any benefit to world security that will result from it? Think about it... A democracy in the heart of the Middle East, where people will grow up with things to live for, which will take away their ambitions of mindlessly killing masses of innocents in hopes of having orgies with virgins. This will influence a huge spirit for democracy in the region. Do you have anything positive to say about my country?

For those of you saying that revenge is worthless, I highly disagree with you. The people who loved innocent, unnecessary victims of Hussein desperately wanted revenge on him, and they deserved it. That alone makes it something of value.

my freind it is late.
i will reply fully tomorrow,
but frist let me assure you I have no hate for any country
I despise the role the US plays in world affairs
Current US foreign polcy I hate.
I have no hate for the people as i dont know many
and am not a bigot
I have respect for parts of the culture
I am a fan of many American thinkers, writers poets and so forth.
so get this notion of me ahting the US out of your head
Don't pass those kind of judgem,ents on me
I refrain from passing them on you.

And these alliances have been for the right reason?
You look into the Iran-Iraq war

You look into Dr Mossadeq's removal and the reason
Nationalization of the countires oil reserves and therefore higher prices for the US.
Look at who they replaced him with and his infamous SAVAK.
Look at the revolution that saved thousands in Iran.
Look into the US' failure to extradite a proven war criminal to Iran where he could be tried.
and the hostage istuation whilst you're there.

please actually do it, do not simply rebut that, read about it
and i'll get back to you 2morrow

=D

and by the way
I am British myslef,
So i hate neither nation
I dislike their leaders and their foreign policy/.

Imran


EDIT :- you idnt carpet bomb the country because you didnt want to blow up the oil reserves
Youre future oil

Do the words... Oil for food embargo mean anything to you.
hmmm?

Originally Posted by imran_p

my freind it is late.
i will reply fully tomorrow,
but frist let me assure you I have no hate for any country
I despise the role the US plays in world affairs
Current US foreign polcy I hate.
I have no hate for the people as i dont know many
and am not a bigot
I have respect for parts of the culture
I am a fan of many American thinkers, writers poets and so forth.
so get this notion of me ahting the US out of your head
Don't pass those kind of judgem,ents on me
I refrain from passing them on you.

And these alliances have been for the right reason?
You look into the Iran-Iraq war

You look into Dr Mossadeq's removal and the reason
Nationalization of the countires oil reserves and therefore higher prices for the US.
Look at who they replaced him with and his infamous SAVAK.
Look at the revolution that saved thousands in Iran.
Look into the US' failure to extradite a proven war criminal to Iran where he could be tried.
and the hostage istuation whilst you're there.

please actually do it, do not simply rebut that, read about it
and i'll get back to you 2morrow

=D

and by the way
I am British myslef,
So i hate neither nation
I dislike their leaders and their foreign policy/.

Imran
EDIT :- you idnt carpet bomb the country because you didnt want to blow up the oil reserves
Youre future oil

Do the words... Oil for food embargo mean anything to you.
hmmm?
[/b]

First of all, happy new year!

I'll tell you what... We can talk about all of the things you just brought up AFTER you answer my questions from my previous post. I want you to tell me how much you appreciate the things I mentioned about what the United States has done to help/save the world, and then I would like for you to tell me what the Hussein regime did that was better for the world. Then you can tell me how the U.S. and the Hussein regime are morally equal.

Even if everything you just brought up is seen in the darkest possible light on the U.S., where it is exactly as you described it and we have no justification whatsoever, how does any of it compare to what I said about the Hussein regime? Again, there is no comparison.

You, and others, turn around and say that you only have a problem with our government and not the people. Don't forget that we people voted those people into power and that they acted under our political pressure. I voted for Bush, so you are talking about things that I had something to do with. You have a right to do that, and we can still be friends even though you are saying that stuff, but remember that when you throw around the term "United States", you are talking about all of us. With that being the case, I want to know how much you appreciate the sacrifices so many of us have made to give you a better life than you would have otherwise. If you are not white, you would not even exist right now if it were not for the United States. Do you know what Hitler got really far with doing before we teamed up with the Soviet Union and Britain to stop his world domination stunt? Do you have any idea what Americans, some of whom I am related to and many others that I knew, went through to stop that crap? What did the Hussein regime ever do for the world?

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

Oh, really? Yes, Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of people, tortured many more. He wasn't going around killing random people, he was trying to kill off a religion or race or somesuch. I'd like to see proof of the US trying to commit genocide.
Yeah... What country are YOU from, imran? Am I a corrupt fool because I live in the US?
[/b]

Only if you believe everything you hear on the news, Regarding Saddam, i dont realy want to start an arguement but bush is responcible for more deaths than Saddam, dont get me wrong im not sticking up for him but i just think that you shouldnt believe everything you hear on the news, it would obviously make america sound good and iraq sound bad. Although Saddam as probebly guilty for alot of the crimes, bush is corrupt and clearly just wnats iraqi oil. Every Non-American see's this.