Thread: U.s Is Going To Fall

I think your right.
We have talked about this a hundred different ways. I don't think any current government is in place to with stand the test of time. I personally think our form had the best chance had it gone the path our founding fathers had wished.
We had and still have some tools to keep the Gov. in check. We are loosing those powers ever so slightly.
The people have a voice. They just don't use it. And sadly when they do it is often an informative one.

But in the mean time --- Let Freedom Ring :!:

All great nations fall eventually. (Find me one that's still around from 0BC, you won't). Still, people have been predicting the fall of superpowers all their lives and America hasn't really blown up yet. I'd bet on a safe ride for a while yet.

I agree with your comment in regards to the voice oft he people
they dont hve one, well they do,
but not a very loud one

But i nregards to this casuing the fall of the US
i disagree
morally it beomces weaker i nmy eyes
yet economically, democracy is a set of chains
The circumstance sin America actually allow for a greater superpower
not a lesser one
although I cant see the US falling, i can see it having to compromise its position as sole supoerpower
not falling, but a lessening of its status
Imran

Well, with the "new" congress, and with Bush getting booted in 2 years or less, hopefully the U.S. will get back on it's feet. Bush is REALLY screwing things up. It's government's greed and ignorant attitude that's getting us screwed over.

I wouldn't bet on the fall of America anytime soon. Sure, it might happen, and that would be pretty interesting. And you can bet it will eventually happen, as it always does. But from what I've seen, America will still be around for at least a little while, just not in the way the world is used to. It certainly is transitioning into something really shitty, but really shitty facsist dictatorship states have ways of hanging around for a while, especially if its history is rooted in freedom and was once a beacon of hope for the entire world.

To me, America as we know it died on September 11, 2001. It's just an entirely new creature now, and it will only change more in the years to come. But fall apart completely? It might happen soon, but it's impossible to predict.

America as it was intended by it's founders, a state for the people, that has already fallen. There is little left of that. America is molested by corporation and government aristocracy. (and kleptocracy).

I think America is an excellent country. The war on drugs has gone too far in eating up some of the Bill of Rights, but I really believe it is temporary. The war on drugs is getting more and more transparent as time goes on, and I think it will end in the next few decades. Illegal immigration and disfunctional population growth are major problems, but it is a matter of time before people wake up and see that something needs to be done. The pendelum swings back and forth. We are nowhere near not being able to vote politicians out of office. The first step into that territory will be a really hard tennis racket slam at the pendelum. The people still have the ultimate power, and we are nowhere near the danger zone of losing that. We're not going anywhere. If we were a failed country already or even near it, we would not be the richest and most powerful nation in the world.

are you sure we are the most richest and most powerful nation in the world? I think we need to concider where all the money and power is going, surely not to the average american.

Originally Posted by juroara

are you sure we are the most richest and most powerful nation in the world? I think we need to concider where all the money and power is going, surely not to the average american.
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We are a capitalist country, for the most part. The money is supposed to go to the people who earn it. They buy things and fuel business. It is the reason for our success. I wish the rest of the world would be that way.

you dont think the average american has earned their money? is there a real good reason why a CEO's income should be 400 times higher than anyone elses? there are other capitalist countries where the average person has a lot more power with their money than we do.

the value of our money has gone down. and if you adjust incomes to interest, the average american has gotten poorer and poorer. about two decades ago women didnt need to work to support the family, now in the average american family it takes two incomes to support it.

Who else likes history a lot?

Who else has noticed empires tend to fall?

Who else thinks the US will be no exception?

If you don't raise your hand, you don't count as having a brain.

Originally Posted by juroara

you dont think the average american has earned their money? is there a real good reason why a CEO's income should be 400 times higher than anyone elses? there are other capitalist countries where the average person has a lot more power with their money than we do.

the value of our money has gone down. and if you adjust incomes to interest, the average american has gotten poorer and poorer. about two decades ago women didnt need to work to support the family, now in the average american family it takes two incomes to support it.
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I didn't say the average American has not earned his money. I was making the point that it is not the government's job to redistribute wealth. We have a system where people usually get what they earn. That is how things should be. Tampering with that screws things up.

What CEO's make is up to the shareholders. If they get paid that much, they must be very valuable. We have a system where every healthy person can work toward achieving being that valuable for a company.

I am not familiar with the statistics on average families here having less power with their money than in other countries and the Americans of 20 years ago. That is the first I have heard. If the average American is poorer now than 20 years ago, it is because of social programs and the disfunctional population growth they support and encourage. The disfunctional screw up the averages. I hope the best for them. Our stuff costs more here than in other countries because we have the best stuff. We are in fact the richest nation in the world. I don't like saying that because I want all countries to adopt our economic system. I wish our system didn't stand out at all.

Universal Mind, you really make me wonder: On a lot point I can see that you think just about the same way as I do, like on religion and such. However, your American-indoctrination does make me wonder or I might be just as indoctrinated, and just don't notice it.

America is a great country for all those people willing to give up their humanity.

Originally Posted by Neruo

America is a great country for all those people willing to give up their humanity.
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You won't catch me doing that. If my country ever really does get ruined, get ready for me because I have said for a long time that if things ever do go wrong enough here I'm moving to Amsterdam. I just question whether I would need to hide my Southern accent and say I hate Bush to avoid getting chased out of town. Outside of that, I might fit right in.

we need a new system

Originally Posted by Universal

You won't catch me doing that. If my country ever really does get ruined, get ready for me because I have said for a long time that if things ever do go wrong enough here I'm moving to Amsterdam. I just question whether I would need to hide my Southern accent and say I hate Bush to avoid getting chased out of town. Outside of that, I might fit right in.
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Maybe if you would get a job, you might notice the difference. Of maybe not, because it is hard to notice you are Not getting fired because there hardly are any unions, like in the usa.

Also, it might shock you that politicians do not call each other crackwhore and prostitute-rapist.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, it might shock you that politicians do not call each other crackwhore and prostitute-rapist.
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Damn. That sounds boring.

Originally Posted by Universal

You won't catch me doing that. If my country ever really does get ruined, get ready for me because I have said for a long time that if things ever do go wrong enough here I'm moving to Amsterdam. I just question whether I would need to hide my Southern accent and say I hate Bush to avoid getting chased out of town. Outside of that, I might fit right in.
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So you haven't lost your humanity yet eh?....

"What CEO's make is up to the shareholders. If they get paid that much, they must be very valuable. We have a system where every healthy person can work toward achieving being that valuable for a company."

You are to say that your value lies in your worth to a company or corporation? You're already lost. I guess the "unhealthy" person is at a loss ..elitist. But maybe you just need to define "healthy" , while you're at it why not define "normal" for me? or "american"?

are you sure we are the most richest and most powerful nation in the world? I think we need to concider where all the money and power is going, surely not to the average american.[/b]

The richest countries are china and japan. The most powerful nation is debateble as we nuclear weapon given to most countries power doesnt come into it MAD does.

Who else likes history a lot?

Who else has noticed empires tend to fall?

Who else thinks the US will be no exception?

If you don't raise your hand, you don't count as having a brain.[/b]

I do think US will fall when the petrol runs out. It economy is based on oil and the power to use it, they are largest in debt and when oil runs out even china cant save the US. Oh yeah if it wasent for china the USA would have collaspe long ago, because they are paying of their debts.

The U.S. will most likely fall eventually, as all of the great powers in history do. I think they will be able to remain a dominant power for at least 50 more years, though.

I detect a vague anti-capitalist sentiment in this thread. To sum up my thoughts on the topic: capitalism may not be the fairest system on the planet (which doesn't bother me, since most of the perceived injustice is in the folks who can't be bothered to get off their arses anyway/expect everyone to have the same wage as them) but hey, it's the only ideology that really works!

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

I detect a vague anti-capitalist sentiment in this thread. To sum up my thoughts on the topic: capitalism may not be the fairest system on the planet (which doesn't bother me, since most of the perceived injustice is in the folks who can't be bothered to get off their arses anyway/expect everyone to have the same wage as them) but hey, it's the only ideology that really works!
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I'd say this pretty well sums it up for me, too.

I forget the figures exactly, so these might be way off, but economists say China is only peforming at something like 1/8 of its potential. Add that to the fact that the Chinese currency is pegged artificially low right now, and you've got yourselves the makings of the world's only superpower.

I like to eat things.

Eventually, all nations end. Look at Greece, and Rome.

But it's not gonna be any time soon.