Thread: United states laws tie in with religion?

I like vagueness.

Isn't it like that just about everywhere? From what I've seen there's theocratically tinged laws in just about every country, when it comes to 'morality' (look to legislation on sex and censorship for the hard evidence).

...America is too religious, in my humble opinion...there was supposed to be a wall of separation between religion and government, and the government was supposed to mediate, not mirror, public opinion, but it still seeps through, sadly enough.

My thoughts on the title of the thread....

Religion has been influencing morality for as long as it has been around, and morality has been informing on laws as well. Although morality and views and interpretations of thereof have been constantly evolving (mostly towards a more liberal interpretation), the influence is undeniable.

The separation of church and state mostly concerns the ability of religious institutions to have a direct control of public life like they do in other countries, i believe.

Well As far as America goes, I know Locke's Two Treatises on Government heavily influenced the US constitution and declaration of independence. Which is a good thing, because that's moral philosophy rather than religious dogmatism.

Nowadays however, considering so much of the country is highly religious It's pretty inevitable that the moral values are based along with that.

I'm hoping as time goes by more of the moral remnants of victorian super conservative christianity in culture will be dropped.

As far as I can tell, the Puritans fled various parts of Europe to escape religious persecution...

...and as soon as they landed here, promptly began persecuting anyone who's beliefs/action didn't fit with their very strict ideas of Christianity. For the most part.

So if them's the roots, can't be surprised by the bloom I suppose.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

I thought people came here so they don't have to deal with that.

Just in case you didn't know there are other far more secular and politically advanced countries than the United States.

It's true, most laws come from the Commandments and Sins.

Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

It's true, most laws come from the Commandments and Sins.

It's actually not true at all. If you think otherwise, prove it.

Originally Posted by Xei

Just in case you didn't know there are other far more secular and politically advanced countries than the United States.

Just so you know the OP didn't specify that the US was more secular or politically advanced than anywhere.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Just so you know the OP didn't specify that the US was more secular or politically advanced than anywhere.

But he implied it when he said people go there to get away from all that.

Yeah, he seemed like he might be implying that so I just pointed that out for him.

The clue is where I said "Just in case you didn't know". :l

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

But he implied it when he said people go there to get away from all that.

I don't think he did. I don't know if you Englishmen are familiar with the intricacies of American history, but I think the OP was referring to the fact that religious groups supposedly settled the English colonies to attain religious freedom from the English church.

Oh I know countries are crazier believe me. The point being a few laws tie in with the Bible. I'm not saying it's a bad thing I'm just curious why this is.

Wait what?

I don't think he did. I don't know if you Englishmen are familiar with the intricacies of American history, but I think the OP was referring to the fact that religious groups supposedly settled the English colonies to attain religious freedom from the English church.

Yeah could be. I was reading it in the present tense you see.

Originally Posted by Xei

Wait what?

Yeah could be. I was reading it in the present tense you see.

It dawned on me after I replied to carousoul that the OP's bad grammar caused it to be ambiguous either way.

The only law that should tie government and religion is 'freedom of religion'.
I know a little about law in germany (had a few courses at uni), but I don't
know too much about law in the states. But this ...

Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

It's true, most laws come from the Commandments and Sins.

... I find highly unlikely.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

It dawned on me after I replied to carousoul that the OP's bad grammar caused it to be ambiguous either way.

Yessss.

There are no laws regarding, who you have to worship, working on sunday, cheating on your wife, honoring your parents, coveting everything, or making idols. Its pretty safe to say the ten commandments has nothing to do with our laws. The only ones that actually apply are that you shouldn't murder or steal, which is pretty common sense.

Then if you look at the biggest sins, extravagance, greed, lust, gluttony, envy and pride and they all pretty much fall under consumerism, a corner stone of our country. You realize that none of our laws have anything even remotely to do with the sins.

When you actually stop to think about it, the only real connection between our laws and religion, is that a lot of people who make laws also happen to have a religion.

...then why are states banning gay marriage?

Am I to assume that's a secular initiative?

it seems like I just made a thread about this...

Originally Posted by acatalephobic

...then why are states banning gay marriage?

Am I to assume that's a secular initiative?

Why not? You don't have to be a religious person to dislike gay marriage. Its is far more related to people simply disliking people who are different than themself, than it is to religion. There are tons of nonreligious people who are against it.

Originally Posted by Alric

Why not? You don't have to be a religious person to dislike gay marriage. Its is far more related to people simply disliking people who are different than themself, than it is to religion. There are tons of nonreligious people who are against it.

I find this very hard to believe. Some serious sources would be appreciated, here. I can't see, for the life of me, why large numbers of atheists would be up in arms against gay marriage...after all, it is the Bible here preaching intolerance against gays. There really isn't any other reason to hate gay people...

Maybe they are just homophobic? Since when did people need to have a religious reason to dislike someone. People dislike a ton of different minorities, and its normally not because of religion.

Most of the reasons people list for wanting to ban it, are nonreligious reasons. Gays make bad parents, they might turn their children gay, gay sex is gross, gays shouldn't be flaunting their gay. They are all secular reasons people give. People get uncomfortable and don't want to hear or see it. Thats the main reason. Not because of any religious reason.

Originally Posted by Alric

Maybe they are just homophobic? Since when did people need to have a religious reason to dislike someone. People dislike a ton of different minorities, and its normally not because of religion.

Most of the reasons people list for wanting to ban it, are nonreligious reasons. Gays make bad parents, they might turn their children gay, gay sex is gross, gays shouldn't be flaunting their gay. They are all secular reasons people give. People get uncomfortable and don't want to hear or see it. Thats the main reason. Not because of any religious reason.

Ah, but what teaches people to hate these actions and have these misconceptions (which are exactly what most of the things on that list is)? In general, the religious are far less accepting of homosexuals and gay couples, as they have had this concept hammered into their skulls since childhood. And, yeah, most of these parents would probably be religious to some degree. Just because they don't like gay marriage for secular reasons doesn't mean religion doesn't play a serious role.