Thread: Vaccines

I never see any scientific evidence for these conspiracies.

The basic science of vaccinations is sound and they save millions.

People who spread insubstantiated claims about vaccinations (a doctor did this in the UK once; said the measles vaccine might cause autism with no scientific evidence and as a result loads of kids died from measles) is essentially a murderer.

Haven't heard of this conspiracy, sounds quite extreme and in need of
powerful evidence to suggest its validity.

The stigma vaccines carry comes from an alleged link between their mercury
content and autism, when administered to infants and toddlers. I'm getting
mixed results with my searches, however. The FDA claims there is no such
link, though I'm not sure where I stand with my trust and the FDA at the
moment. There are other claims that "such and such studies found a decline
in autism cases with vaccinations that did not contain mercur" though, again,
I'm having difficulty finding the actual articles in the scientific journals that
claim this.

I'd like to see independent studies done on the matter, ones not being
funded by any major group, political or otherwise.

In any case, my younger brother was diagnosed with Autism shortly after
having received the hepatitis A and Prevnar vaccines, at the age of three.
Were those vaccines the cause? I'd like to know, conclusively, if that is the
case.


I've also been seeing a lot of commercials for the N1H1 vaccine lately. Who
exactly is making money off of those adds? Drug companies? Do we have to
individually pay for vaccines, or are they covered under medical insurance? If
we do have to pay out of pocket, are the add owners making enough off of
vaccinations to actually profit from the add?


One last thing I'll throw out there. I'm hoping the more informed can either
confirm or deny (with sources) the information presented in the following
video. If true, it's a douzy, and something I hope wont be taken lightly.

I'm hesitant to receive any sort of vaccination if I can avoid it. Especially since all the hype about H1N1. Seems like a scare tactic to get people to accept vaccinations that have questionable scientific backing.

Anyway, weren't we all supposed to all be killed by SARS by now? And whatever happened to bird flu?

I put not sure, because that is as close as you have to some. I am against unnecessary vaccines, and trying to limit your exposure to them.

I am really not a big fan of the flu shot. I never get the flu, and when I do its pretty mild and I never get the shot. Most of the people I know who don't get the shot are fine each other. A lot of people I know who get the shot seem to get sick regardless of the fact that they got the shot.

It might just be circumstantial evidence, but it seems like everyone else says that a lot as well. Most people just don't think it helps, despite what all the healthcare works say(And you always hear stories of them not taking the flu shot either).

If you are worried about the stuff in vaccines then getting a shot every year is also bad. Any kind of build up form the stuff in it, is going to happen quickly when you constantly get shots over an over.

That said, I am not as worried about one time shots. Since they tend to be more effective, and if the stuff inside them really is bad for you. Then at least your keeping it in low levels and giving your body a chance to get rid of it. I think the same for any of the serious conditions as well.

Swine flu, isn't in my opinion that dangerous or a serious condition. It just isn't worth the risk. So I didn't get it and don't plan to. However if I step on a rusty nail I am going to get a tetanus shot. If a wild animal bit me I would ge a rabbies shot. Rabbies and tetanus doesn't even happen in the US anymore. Though that just speaks to the effectiveness of the vaccines.

In fact there are many things that don't occure in the US anymore, because of vaccines effectively wiped them out. They had clear very real results.

The flu just doesn't appear effective however. You don't see civliazed countries with fractions of the reported cases as countries without the vaccines, like you do for all the other serious vaccines.

Swine flu is pretty much propaganda to me. Media even doesn't try to compare new flu kills with the common one (at least here on Brazil). It can be a bit worse and kill more than regular, but not to an extent that is worry-able.

And it's fun how people here like to talk about it like it is the worst thing happening to the world, only because of that propaganda.

back on topic, I like the vaccines that you just take one shot and prevent serious issues. If not, I prefer not taking.

I've gotten flu vaccines as far back as I can remember, and I got the H1N1 vaccine. I never bought into the autism scare because there hasn't been enough hard evidence to back up the claims of groups like Generation Rescue and other anti-vaccine groups.

These are a few interesting videos on the matter by the YouTube user C0nc0rdance:

Vaccines that prevent very fatal or otherwise damaging diseases are necessary. MMR, hepatitis, tetanus, smallpox, and the like actually kill/disfigure people. Flu? Unless you're one of the types that could die if you walked into a stiff breeze, it shouldn't be necessary.

H1N1? Yah, it could have been serious back in the spring, but now that it has obviously petered out to only mildly more severe than seasonal influenza, any more just lines the pockets of the drug companies.

I don't think that there is any sort of conspiracy going on with it, aside from the occasional bribing of a public health official, but it wouldn't surprise me if a drug company bred a virus to infect people just in time for them to buy their vaccine.

The whole mercury=>autism thing is likely to be little more than a post hoc fallacy. My mother is convinced that my aspie-ish tendencies are a result of it, but I think that it is more due to my brother's early mind control attempts and a lack of early childhood interaction that did it.

If there's an alternative preservative that does not contain mercury that drug manufacturers can use, then they should use it. Heavy metals in general are bad.

I'm very positive to vaccination. There's no doubt it saved many of us from potentially lethal diseases, and if you contract a disease despite being vaccinated, it's most likely much milder than it otherwise would have been (have had Pertussis myself).

Despite the above, I haven't gotten the Swine flu shot. It's not mainly cause I distrust the vaccine, though I do find the whole process to be a bit rushed, but rather that the disease has been found to be much less lethal than anticipated.

I think vaccines are an amazing thing, and if you ask anyone from a generation or two ago, I'm sure they would agree (save, of course, for the autism nuts). Most younger people (like me) don't know what it was like to worry about diseases like polio, to see their friends die from virulent diseases that have essentially been wiped out thanks to vaccines.

There are a whole bunch of popular ideas that people have about vaccines: that they make people sick, that they cause autism, that the government is using them to make us docile and to control our minds(!!!), and any number of unsubstantiated beliefs. The fact none of these claims can be backed by real scientific evidence, and any rational individual should be able to divorce themselves from any personal beliefs or worries and see through the bullshit.

Now, I don't usually get the seasonal flu vaccine, but I did what I consider my civic duty and got the H1N1 vaccine. I'll be the first to say that the media, and the government did a poor job of handling the situation. There was no reason to raise it to a level six (or whatever it was) pandemic warning. Furthermore it is probably more dangerous that they did so because it will undermine any real level six threats that might occur in the future. The thing about H1N1 was not that it was especially lethal, but how contagious it is. Bird Flu is also still a very real threat because it still exists, we have no vaccine for it, and it has a relatively high lethality rate, it just isn't as contagious as something like H1N1.

So why do we get a vaccine for something like H1N1 that probably won't kill you? Because viruses mutate constantly! This is why the seasonal flu vaccine is different every year. Why wouldn't we want to try to nip H1N1 in the bud before it has a chance to spread around and possibly become more lethal?

Who the hell am I though, and what do I know? The point is, vaccines are there for your safety, and the safety of your communities. It is fine to have reservations about receiving vaccines, but really, don't kid yourself and latch on to unscientific hypotheses from nutjobs that hate "big pharma" or groups that are just looking for answers or someone to blame, and don't spread that shit around.

Vaccines might not be 100% safe, but what is? Ever been in a car, ever been in an elevator? People just constantly fail to see the inherent risks and benefits in everyday life. Maybe it's because nobody understands how anything actually functions and we take too much for granted, but that is a whole 'nother can of worms and another long rambling post.

I personally don't take flu vaccines but I don't buy into the "population control" theories.

I am, however, wary of things like this:

Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus

The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria.

Source: Toronto Sun

This is one of the same companies producing H1N1 vaccine, BTW.

Human error is alive and well, and when it comes to tampering with viruses that scares me. However, far more good than harm has come from vaccine development so I still support vaccine research and administration.

Originally Posted by MrBeelzy

So why do we get a vaccine for something like H1N1 that probably won't kill you? Because viruses mutate constantly! This is why the seasonal flu vaccine is different every year. Why wouldn't we want to try to nip H1N1 in the bud before it has a chance to spread around and possibly become more lethal?

Actually pretty much all scientists who have commented on it say that it is almost impossible for H1N1 to mutate into something lethal. I can't remember why but it's something to do with how it is structured. Google it lol.

Originally Posted by Alric

I put not sure, because that is as close as you have to some. I am against unnecessary vaccines, and trying to limit your exposure to them.

Agreed. I think the poll is worded incorrectly.
lol.

Originally Posted by Alric

I am really not a big fan of the flu shot. I never get the flu, and when I do its pretty mild and I never get the shot. Most of the people I know who don't get the shot are fine each other. A lot of people I know who get the shot seem to get sick regardless of the fact that they got the shot.

Maybe these people have worse immune systems and they got the flu really bad one year so they get the flu shot form then on? Maybe not though. Maybe not getting the flu because they always get the shot weakens their immune system. Maybe the vaccination weakens their immune system directly. Who knows.

Originally Posted by Alric

Swine flu, isn't in my opinion that dangerous or a serious condition. It just isn't worth the risk. So I didn't get it and don't plan to. However if I step on a rusty nail I am going to get a tetanus shot.

Hehe that's basically exactly what I was gonna say.

Originally Posted by Alric

In fact there are many things that don't occure in the US anymore, because of vaccines effectively wiped them out. They had clear very real results.

The flu just doesn't appear effective however. You don't see civliazed countries with fractions of the reported cases as countries without the vaccines, like you do for all the other serious vaccines.

That's the problem. I remember reading an article by some dude a little while ago and he was explaining psychologically why all this paranoia about vaccines is becoming so prevalent. It is because we don't have Polio anymore, we don't have M or M or R anymore. We don't have all these things anymore that vaccines have cured. But it's scientifically proven that some people DO have bad reactions to vaccines or someone might get the 1 in a million shot that actually gives them the disease because the virus or whatever in the vaccine wasn't properly killed.

So parents in particular would rather NOT get the vaccine for their kid because there is a small risk (massive risk as reported by mass media and anti-vax groups) that there might be an adverse reaction. But they don't think about the fact that it is taking a MASSIVE risk to not vaccinate because the disease will come back. Just like is seen in England after the anti-vax movement started, all these people started getting Measles.

So basically the psychology behind it is NOT giving the vaccine to their kids verse giving it and risking injuring them. But they don't realise that by NOT DOING something, they can harm their kid too. It's a fault in human thinking.

Anyway yeah, take it if the thing it's supposed to treat can kill you and the vaccine has been tested thoroughly. Don't take it if the thing it's supposed to treat can't kill you and the vaccine has only been tested for a few weeks. (Like with H1N1).

Also I think the only reason Government pushed this so hard and bought millions of doses and gave them for free even though they knew it was a piss weak virus anyway, is because they don't want people to be out of work! They need the tax dollars yo!

That's mainly why the whole conspiracy doesn't work with me. Why would Government or Pharma want to kill people or sterilise them when they are the one's who give them their money?

Hehe just got this in my e-mail inbox from Nature. You'll have to subscribe to view the full thing or you could probably find another article about it.
Basically I think it's saying laws which limited mercury in vaccines were 'overridden' when there was such a scare from swine flu.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v16...nm0110-9a.html

Back when polio was around, the child mortality rate was around 50%. Before that, even higher. The Black Death killed nearly 75% of an entire continent. I'd rather have to deal with a few cases of autism than watch as everyone around me dies.

Exactly, it's so blatantly clear that vaccines have helped. But most people alive now never lived through that so they don't know. It should be mandatory for everyone to watch an hour long video of all the diseases in history. A very graphic video.

Eh, I guess I should start getting flu vaccines. After all, I live in an urban setting, and my university is supplying the vaccines for free.

But it was never a big thing in my family (conspirator mother, lololololo), so it hasn't really occurred to me to go out of my way and get a vaccine.

Haven't been sick since I left for school, though I know I've come in contact with H1N1 and a variety of colds (brought in y presence by friends. ;__). It's neat to stay healthy without vaccines, though, 'cause it gives my immune system a self-esteem boost. :3

Yeah man, fuck vaccines for basically a cold. Unless you're already on your way to death the flu won't kill you.

Originally Posted by tommo

Yeah man, fuck vaccines for basically a cold. Unless you're already on your way to death the flu won't kill you.

There is transmission to worry about, though.

<3 vaccines.


Nothing has suggested to me anything negative about them, and they mean i can travel to most places without having to worry about common diseases.

It's wonderful.

Originally Posted by Catbus

There is transmission to worry about, though.

Yeah but the only person you give it to who it could kill would be someone already about to die anyway. So what does it matter?

Originally Posted by tommo

Yeah but the only person you give it to who it could kill would be someone already about to die anyway. So what does it matter?

It's not about killing, it's about needlessly spreading the flu. Whether or not it will kill someone shouldn't be a thought that floats through one's head when they're infected with H1N1 or ANY disease. What they should focus on is attempting to keep the disease to only themselves and not transmit it to others, who will, in turn, transmit it to even more people.

Staying at home when your sick, pretty much solves that problem.

Originally Posted by Alric

Staying at home when your sick, pretty much solves that problem.

Only if you live alone and can avoid human contact absolutely. If you live with your parents/siblings/kids/spouse/friends/whatever, then you'll expose them to the virus.

But SO WHAT? Why does it matter if you get the bloody flu?
What is people's problem?
Being sick for a few days and at the worst weeks doesn't fucking matter!
Why would it matter if everybody in the entire world got it? Really?
We'd all be healthy in a matter of days.
I just don't see what the matter is with spreading a flu.

Originally Posted by tommo

But SO WHAT? Why does it matter if you get the bloody flu?
What is people's problem?
Being sick for a few days and at the worst weeks doesn't fucking matter!
Why would it matter if everybody in the entire world got it? Really?
We'd all be healthy in a matter of days.
I just don't see what the matter is with spreading a flu.

It matters because not everyone gets better from the flu. 300,000-500,000* people die from the flu across the globe per year. The flu can be very dangerous, and when it's not hard at all to prevent, then why the fuck wouldn't we?


*http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en/