This Forum

[apachama]

I've been making a lot of posts in this section recently. And it strikes me that arguments boild down to two sides shouting at each other. You might say the most rational thing in the world, but someone can deny your evidence and just keep going.

Most of the time you don't even see any indication that anyone has even read your post before going on with the same arguments again.

Now, I love philosophy. I love seeking truth and I love trying to put an argument forward and seeing how people's logic works. I'm an easy going guy, normally. My thinking is drawn from whatever makes sense. I try to be open minded with things and give credit where credits due.

I've seen you lot on the board for a while, and a lot of you seem like you might have interesting things to say. I'd love to actually talk to one of you about your beliefs. No shouting opinions blindly, no long cat or fail posts, no arguments getting de-railed into pointless dead-ends. I'd like to do this in a polite way, and I'd like both me and the other person to think that there's a possibility that we might learn something.

I live in a small town. I have atheist friends, magicians, pagans, muslims, buddhists, Christians, etc. But when we sit around in the pub and chat I kind of know whats coming up. I'd like a chance to see a new point of view.

Nobody ever seems to have their opinions seriously affected by internet arguments on discussion boards. Hence this. If you are interested in actually standing a chance of changeing an opinion over the internet, PM me and I'll give serious consideration to your point of view and try to give a sensible response.

I guess my questions are:

Theists: Why do you believe in God? Why did you choose the expression of faith that you did?

Atheists: Is there any place at all for spirituality in life, if so where?

New Agers/Others: Hell. I always like finding out what you're thinking. It would be nice to hear what spirituality means to you.

[Serkat]

Atheists: Is there any place at all for spirituality in life, if so where?

There's nothing that would keep an atheist from spiritual experiences and activities including but not limited to meditation, hypnosis, the intake of pyschoactive drugs, sensory deprivation, lucidity, ascetism, spiritual retreats, fasting and other such things.
The only difference is that you don't need to pretend to know things that you in fact do not know.

.

[nitsuJ]

Theists: Why do you believe in God? Why did you choose the expression of faith that you did?

i'll go ahead and state i consider myself christian.

i believe in god because i believe something of extreme intelligence had to create everything, i don't believe everything just "came into being", there had to be something behind it, and no i don't consider the big bang theory to be it before someone asks

as for why i'm christian.. i grew up in a family that doesn't go to church nor tries to preach the word of any religion, so i formed my own beliefs, though a few are for sure christian. i'm sure my family is christian but i don't know, i know my mom is because she watches those preaching shows that come on those religious channels, my dad i'm pretty sure he is christian but he debates over things in the bible that don't make any sense as to what my mom says sometimes. my brother i have no idea, he never talks about religion. i consider most of my beliefs to be of christian beliefs so i classify myself as christian

[Xei]

I enjoy talking about philosophy and metaphysics very much and I like hearing what people think about those subjects; it's often very insightful.

However I don't really understand anybody who clings to the ancient theologies in the face of everything. There are many here who ignore huge amounts of evidence, such as that regarding evolution, in order to hang on to some kind of comforting idea. I really can't stand that... when I talk about philosophy want to be searching for truth, not hiding from it.

I'd love to have an intelligent discussion about the fine tuning in the universe and how it could be due to a conscious creator, but most theists on the forum, at least the ones who make themselves heard, tend to be incredibly moronic and unimaginative and deny the whole of evolution which is just ridiculous.

[nitsuJ]

i've really only seen two christians so far on the forum that's said anything about evolution, me and ne-yo, and we both believe evolution is real

[A dreamer168]

I do too!!!!

[nitsuJ]

I do too!!!!

ok, that's 3 for 3

[Xei]

I've seen many deny that natural selection occurs and that man evolved from monkey, and Ne-Yo's one of them. He's a staunch supporter of barminology with all his nonsense about 'kinds not being able to turn into other kinds' and saying things like 'microevolution occurs but not macroevolution' when they're exactly the same phenomenon.

[nitsuJ]

I've seen many deny that natural selection occurs and that man evolved from monkey, and Ne-Yo's one of them. He's a staunch supporter of barminology with all his nonsense about 'kinds not being able to turn into other kinds' and saying things like 'microevolution occurs but not macroevolution' when they're exactly the same phenomenon.

well as far as evolution goes, i believe everything evolved from a single celled organism which went to something like.. an amoeba maybe? which went to a fish.. then some type of land animal.. etc. etc. etc., or something of the sort

[Xei]

Yes that's the rough picture, and people with imaginations can see that there is room for God in that. That's not the kind of people I'm complaining about, though, of course.

[Grod]

Nobody ever seems to have their opinions seriously affected by internet arguments on discussion boards. Hence this

Actually, many previous theists here have defaulted to atheism after reading up on this forum.

[juroara]

christ consciousness christian - new ager.

I hold up the subjective human experience on a platter, as more meaningful than any non subjective reality. science, the study of nature, has no meaning when the one studying it is taken away. when a mind is taken away. and that mind, only knows a subjective reality.

science at its heart boils down to mans fascination with wanting to understand and know everything. animals don't care or need science. life doesn't care or need science. the universe doesn't need science. the universe is like, abstracted colors on a canvas. and conscious minds look at it and decide, if it's a work of art or not. if its meaningful or not. if it was created or not.

I don't know if we will ever be able to answer the bigger questions - especially with how subjective reality actually is. But I am interested in the human consciousness, always seeking in its own right. Both science and spirituality asking big questions and looking for answers.

I look forward to their happy yin and yang union.

[Needcatscan]

As an atheist I don't think I could have put it better than Serkat.

I think most humans are wired to need some form of transcendence or spirituality. Unfortunately, as Sam Harris states often, religion has a monopoly on spirituality, which really sucks. I think spirituality can be (not is, but can be) essential to many peoples' happiness. I think this is one small part that keeps theists clinging to their religion; they are afraid if they become non-religious they have to give up all forms of spirituality.

My spirituality only goes as far as lucid dreaming right now; but I am very interested in meditating and Buddhist philosophy.