Thread: I Came Out To My Dad Today

Your dad is brainwashed.

I would say that's FSTDT-worthy material... but as it is a real-life conversation and not really an exchange via a forum, it doesn't exactly qualify for submission.

Still... funny stuff...

I'm sorry your dad clearly doesn't have the ability to think logically.

Also, he needs to look up Occam's Razor.

So you're allowing personal beliefs to come in between your relationship with your father. And he equally is allowing his personal beliefs to come between his relationship with you.

......

Originally Posted by Elis D.

"It's not science, it's leftist, communist propaganda set up by Liberals to destroy America and remove God's will from our nation"(Again, I shit you not)

Tell him to read my posts in Extended Discussion and then read my posts in Religion/Spirituality. He will see a very clear exception to that statement. Also tell him that most of the atheists I know are libertarians. I'm sorry you have to deal with such an awkward situation with your father. That has to suck, even though there is definitely some funny stuff mixed in with the suckiness. Interestingly, I got into the same situation with my father when I was 16, except in the reverse. He was the atheist (who tries really hard to call himself an agnostic), and I was the Christian. He ended up convincing me otherwise. Maybe you can convert your dad to atheism. Then again, if it causes less pain, you might want to tell him the white lie that you have not completely let go of Jesus and then just never talk about it again. But if he keeps preaching after that, I guess you will have to talk about it.

lol, ah the power of the church to brainwash the uneducated

What UM said, show him a science book. Origin of Species is a good one, so is A Brief History of Time.

If your successful with that maybe you could even eventually get him to stop voting republican.

Originally Posted by Cold Blooded

Your dad is brainwashed.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

lol, ah the power of the church to brainwash the uneducated

I'm thinking that if Jesus had played minor league baseball rather than doing the messiah shtick, Elis's dad would just subscribe to another brand of crazy.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Tell him to read my posts in Extended Discussion and then read my posts in Religion/Spirituality. He will see a very clear exception to that statement. Also tell him that most of the atheists I know are libertarians. I'm sorry you have to deal with such an awkward situation with your father. That has to suck, even though there is definitely some funny stuff mixed in with the suckiness. Interestingly, I got into the same situation with my father when I was 16, except in the reverse. He was the atheist (who tries really hard to call himself an agnostic), and I was the Christian. He ended up convincing me otherwise. Maybe you can convert your dad to atheism. Then again, if it causes less pain, you might want to tell him the white lie that you have not completely let go of Jesus and then just never talk about it again. But if he keeps preaching after that, I guess you will have to talk about it.

Naw, my dad's tried it all, and his favorite crutch is evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity

Originally Posted by ninja9578

lol, ah the power of the church to brainwash the uneducated

What UM said, show him a science book. Origin of Species is a good one, so is A Brief History of Time.

That's the problem, he is educated.

He's got two Associate Degrees in Sociology and a Bachelors of Psychology

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I'm thinking that if Jesus had played minor league baseball rather than doing the messiah shtick, Elis's dad would just subscribe to another brand of crazy.

100% agree

Originally Posted by psychology student

So you're allowing personal beliefs to come in between your relationship with your father. And he equally is allowing his personal beliefs to come between his relationship with you.

......

No, I'm letting 18 years of shitty parenting do that
Like I said, I've always respected his beliefs, at least, I didn't speak out against them

Originally Posted by The Enterer

If your successful with that maybe you could even eventually get him to stop voting republican.

Hahahaha, yeah right.
(Although he's not voting for McCain)

Originally Posted by Elis D.

Naw, my dad's tried it all, and his favorite crutch is evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity

It sounded like, based on what you quoted, he has never even heard of somebody who is both an atheist and a pro-American capitalist.

Originally Posted by Elis D.

That's the problem, he is educated.

He's got two Associate Degrees in Sociology and a Bachelors of Psychology

How can an educated person believe in that stuff in modern times? Are you sure that he's not doing some sociological experiment on you?

Brave move dude. Congrats. Sounds a lot like my dad growing up. He's gotten better now (about the not being an asshole) but still believes in all the same fundie stuff.

I wish I would have become an atheist when I was still living at home, I'm jealous

Originally Posted by ninja9578

How can an educated person believe in that stuff in modern times? Are you sure that he's not doing some sociological experiment on you?

I think this is proof enough that you don't really understand your opposition well enough to really call their beliefs uneducated or primitive. I recently had a philosophy professor with a B.A., an M.A., and a Ph.D as well as several published books who is also a Rabbi.

Perhaps you could examine opposing views differently now that you know that educated people can come to hold them.

Lucky me. I've got one of those dads that believes in god AND evolution. You would all be lucky to have a pops like mine.

PS Elis, you said there were females in the house? Why are you doing the dishes?

Cause sexual equality is practiced in my house and women aren't slaves.

No, seriously, cause they live with my dad in his apartment, I live in my mom's house(she's currently away on business) with my brother and a roommate.
That and they're 9 & 11.

He was over for the day helping me clean cause it was a pigsty and me mam is coming home soon.

Darwinism isn't much above this idea. Lizards have been observed adapting to a certain diet and their DNA changing in a way that defies random selection outright. If you consider the structure of even a blade of grass. It would take more than 14 billion years for random selection to create it's complexity into that order and structure, in fact it's impossible.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Darwinism isn't much above this idea. Lizards have been observed adapting to a certain diet and their DNA changing in a way that defies random selection outright. If you consider the structure of even a blade of grass. It would take more than 14 billion years for random selection to create it's complexity into that order and structure, in fact it's impossible.

LOL Darwinism... what's that? Also, can you provide citation to substantiate your claim?

If you mean evolution, well, hate to rain on your parade but, we have the fossils, the genes, taxonomy, etc...

Also, bacteria make major evolutionary shift in a laboratory... link to the peer reviewed paper in the article, and considering the meticulousness of the experiment, conducted over a period of 20 years, I'd say it is quite the achievement. Also, they were able to replay the evolutionary progression over and over by using stored samples of earlier generations of bacteria (in other words, Evolution is not a random process, it is in fact quite the deterministic process). The methodology is pretty meticulous and thoughtful, it's not something you can dismiss.

In other words... we win.

It would take more than 14 billion years for random selection to create it's complexity into that order and structure, in fact it's impossible.

People like you are so dense that you fail to grasp the basic concept that evolution is a non random process. No matter how many people explain otherwise.

Here is an analogy which you will no doubt also fail to comprehend:

A thief is trying to crack a 7 digit code (10 digit input) for a safe. Under the traditional model of random guessing, it would take up to 1 million guesses.

Now imagine the 'evolution' way of cracking things: every time the thief got closer (a better guess), he would know. Each time he got a digit right he would know. Even if he were only told when he got a digit right (i.e. he didn't get told when he was getting closer), it would take him at most 71 guesses to get the code, almost 15 000 times faster than random guessing.

Yes, if this is how safe cracking worked, a thief could crack a safe with a million combinations in 71 guesses at most, if he did it as efficiently as possible. Factoring in out "getting warmer, getting colder" signals and this would approximately halve the guesses further if it were done as efficiently as possible.


WITH ANY CHANGE, evolution DOES NOT start over when something goes wrong. It does a 'revert to saved' back to the last working configuration. It is a very much non random process. People who fail to understand this simple concept are stupid. Minervas you are one of these people. At least you now know.

Originally Posted by Elis D.

We were cleaning the kitchen together, I was drying dishes, he was washing.

He asked how some object went from place A to place B in the house, and I jokingly said, "I don't know, maybe we've got a poltergeist" and he flipped, he's praying the Blood of Jesus over the house and "casting out any thoughts of demons in this House of the Lord" so I just burst out laughing. I try to respect his beliefs no matter how crazy they get but I couldn't help it.
He screw faces me harder than I've ever seen,
"Why are you laughing"
"You actually believe in DEMONS! lololololol"
"Yes, and it's no laughing matter. Why? Don't you?"
"NO! That's retarded"
"Oh, and I suppose next you're going to tell me that Satan doesn't exist"
"Uh... yeah"
"Oh! REALLY! Now you're gonna say you don't believe in God?!"
I got a little wary here, cause I don't know how he was gonna react...
"No, I don't"
"So, what are you? A Catholic?"(I shit you not)
"No, I don't believe in any god"
"So you're an atheist?"
"Yeah, I was agnostic for about 4 years and I've been atheist for about a year"
"I suppose you believe in Evolution too?"
"I believe in Science and Logic, and so far the evidence is strongly in favor of Evolution, so yeah"
"You better not ever teach your sisters any of that crap"
"What? Science?"
"It's not science, it's leftist, communist propaganda set up by Liberals to destroy America and remove God's will from our nation"(Again, I shit you not)
"lololololololololololololololol, let me finish drying these dishes and then I'm gonna walk away"



I cannot believe some of the crap that comes out of his mouth.

I've been thinking about this and in comparison with myself, the situation is weird. He, Ellis D, is an atheist, and yet his father does not appreciate it. I am a secular Christian, and yet if I were to become an atheist, I doubt my father would care about it: for one thing, he has read Dawkins' most prominent book.

Crazy.

PS if you became atheist we make a sect just for you.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

People like you are so dense that you fail to grasp the basic concept that evolution is a non random process. No matter how many people explain otherwise.

Here is an analogy which you will no doubt also fail to comprehend:

A thief is trying to crack a 7 digit code (10 digit input) for a safe. Under the traditional model of random guessing, it would take up to 1 million guesses.

Now imagine the 'evolution' way of cracking things: every time the thief got closer (a better guess), he would know. Each time he got a digit right he would know. Even if he were only told when he got a digit right (i.e. he didn't get told when he was getting closer), it would take him at most 71 guesses to get the code, almost 15 000 times faster than random guessing.

Yes, if this is how safe cracking worked, a thief could crack a safe with a million combinations in 71 guesses at most, if he did it as efficiently as possible. Factoring in out "getting warmer, getting colder" signals and this would approximately halve the guesses further if it were done as efficiently as possible.


WITH ANY CHANGE, evolution DOES NOT start over when something goes wrong. It does a 'revert to saved' back to the last working configuration. It is a very much non random process. People who fail to understand this simple concept are stupid. Minervas you are one of these people. At least you now know.

On top of that, "randomness" in a strictly mathematical and scientific definition does not mean what the common definition means.

In common speech, something is "random" when it is without apparent cause, and tends towards no particular effect.

Mathematically (and hence, properly) speaking, randomness is a quality of some large sample of data which creates statistical uniformity, and allows statistics to be used as opposed to mechanical analysis, precisely because random phenomena occur on a scale too large for mechanics to be effectively used. The behavior of a gas, for example, is treated statistically because working out the behavior of every individual gas particle is computationally prohibitive, and we are really only interested in the average behavior of the gas particles in any case. All that "random" really means is "we're unable to mechanically resolve some system, so we use averages".

These types thrive on equivocating popular and scientific definitions.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Tell him to read my posts in Extended Discussion and then read my posts in Religion/Spirituality. He will see a very clear exception to that statement. Also tell him that most of the atheists I know are libertarians. I'm sorry you have to deal with such an awkward situation with your father. That has to suck, even though there is definitely some funny stuff mixed in with the suckiness. Interestingly, I got into the same situation with my father when I was 16, except in the reverse. He was the atheist (who tries really hard to call himself an agnostic), and I was the Christian. He ended up convincing me otherwise. Maybe you can convert your dad to atheism. Then again, if it causes less pain, you might want to tell him the white lie that you have not completely let go of Jesus and then just never talk about it again. But if he keeps preaching after that, I guess you will have to talk about it.

Out of curiosity UM was your dad atheist when you were born? Because a lot of the time kids learn religion from their parents.

see what god does to u
I dont know where I stand in religion but it makes others nuts

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

PS if you became atheist we make a sect just for you.

lol

(see, im learning the Internet talk).