Thread: If God Does Exist, Why Does He Need Us?

Originally Posted by Hominus

If god does exist, why didnt he make himself present to every group of people on the planet. Is it not suspicious that more than 90 percent of the world has a religion. It just proves that the need for religion is just a pathetic human quality that earns to have a greater power over itself. Why didnt god show up to Native Americans, Incans, Mayas, Budhists, or Germanic Tribes? He chose one group of people.
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You assume that there is only one god and that this god will appear in the exact same guise to all people.

For a lot of people in the world, belief in one god simply doesn't fit or make any sense. It would also not make sense that the JCI god would appear exactly the same to all people around the world. Since cultures are different, it would make sense that a single deity would present itself in a way acceptable by each individual group, have a name from their language, and have characteristics commendable in that culture. It's like Jesus being white in all the modern Christian imagery... that's what our current culture looks up to... if they portrayed Jesus like he realistically would have looked, he certainly wouldn't have white skin, blue eyes, and dirty blond hair.

To answer your question of "why does he need us," I don't think he or any other deity necessarily needs us. I'm not one of those that thinks gods stop existing when people stop believing in them. They might lose power, but I don't think their existence is dependent on worshippers.

Hmmm....
Good reply.

SO NOW ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS STOP BELIEVING AND GOD WILL NO LONGER EXIST!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, HA HA HA HA HA (evil laugh)

And anyone who says that without God there would be no morals. YOU COULDNT BE MORE RIGHT!!!!!

I firmly believe, as a former Christian, that MOST Christians do good deeds soley for hope of reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell), not because its the right thing to do. You can come on here and say "Thats not true, and your stereotyping", but i still wont believe differently. Do you think God smiles on you when you donate your measly 20 bucks once a month at church? Please. If you really want "god" to smile on you, then do as the bible says. Those worthy of heaven should give ALL of their belongs to the poor and join them. Now, do you consider yourself worthy?

Originally Posted by Hominus

And anyone who says that without God there would be no morals. YOU COULDNT BE MORE RIGHT!!!!!
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What about atheists with morals? What about non-Christians with morals? See, I think its society and culture that makes determines what the morals of a group are, not their religion. Sometimes a religious group will have different morals than non-religious people, but that doesn't mean they have no morals whatsoever.

ps. I like your screen name. Haha.. feral human. Do you know much about that classification?

I just know it means wild man in Latin, which i took for a couple of years. Some other one's i though about having were Lupus Aureus, Hominus Aureus, and Homo Ecrectus (haha). But no, im not a scientist.
ARE YOU????? Give me some more possible latin words, as long as there not fruity or lame.

Originally Posted by Hominus

I firmly believe, as a former Christian, that MOST Christians do good deeds soley for hope of reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell), not because its the right thing to do.[/b]

So sad. I'm glad I'm not like MOST Christians then. I do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, not for any kind of reward or punishment. If heaven and hell were abolished this very instant, it would not change the way I live one little bit. Yeah, I like the life I live.

So, Hominus, what caused you to turn your back on Christianity?

Originally Posted by Hominus

I just know it means wild man in Latin, which i took for a couple of years. Some other one's i though about having were Lupus Aureus, Hominus Aureus, and Homo Ecrectus (haha). But no, im not a scientist.
ARE YOU????? Give me some more possible latin words, as long as there not fruity or lame.
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I just finished my anthropology degree and I remember a class in which our prof. talked about the monster tradition during the Age of Exploration. Hominus Feralis is similar to a classification for "wild people" who lived in the woods and were quite feral. It turns out that a lot of them were children who were abandoned at a young age because of disabilities like down syndrome, and were raised by other children who had been abandoned and grown up in the woods. Creepy stuff, wouldn't you think? If there really were abandoned children in the woods who would follow you and try to steal your food and such? It's pretty strange.

I speak more Greek than Latin, sorry...

Seeker.
Warning: this gets pretty deep

First of all, I got a quick question
Do you believe that aliens come to earth to abduct people and mutilate cattle?
You probably dont, neither do i, but think about this. You believe that a virgin woman gave birth to a boy with half human, half god DNA, who walked on water, made blind people see with his spit, rose the dead, cured leapords, and rose up from the grave himself(im not bashing or being sarcastic). But aliens arent possible.

First of all i was the worst kind, a catholic
I went to catholic schools for 10 years and i kind of always accepted God and all that stuff. All i heard while i was there was "our religion is right, others are wrong" I began to think. There are thousands of religons out there, all with about the same proof as the other. Keep in mind that a 2000 year old book is not proof, considering how many times it has been revised.

Anyway, i thought, hey, belief in god is obviously just some human trait left over from our primative years. We were pack animals and there were alpha males who ran the group, like hyenas and lions. It is burnt into our instincts that we work better in numbers and that we need a powerful leader to lead us. This is why we appoint kings and presidents to do all of the thinking for us. After all, we are pretty measley creatures by ourselves.

So, back on topic. I felt my faith was holding on by a thread so i began to read the bible. After a year and a couple of months, i had read it twice cover to cover and i was more upset than ever. Look at all this stuff. Old Testament: God is vengeful and smites the entire world (except for select people: the flood) when his little "human experiment" skrewed up. He condones the hostile takeover of countries by the Jews and even aids them in some of their fights.

New Testament: God gets off his period and starts acting nice all of a sudden. All he cares about is saving the poor little sinners by sending his son to die for us.

Thats very inconsistent.

OT: An eye for an eye

NT: Turn the other cheek

Inconsistent

Jesus: why did he have to die? couldnt he have just lifted the entire city of rome off its foundation, then everyone would believe. Remember GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS. He didnt have to convey his point through the death of a person.

The impossibility of a god: (this shit gets REEL deep)
I"ll start you off with a simple statement, then TRY to explain it.
God CANNOT act because he know the past, present, and future. If he knows the future then his actions are predetermined. He would know his choices before making them. Therefore if he exists then he knew his experiment with "Adam and Eve" (the most rediculus thing i have every heard) would fail, as well as the instance with Noah. He would have forseen the Christian persecution and the Crusades, but he still made the decision.
It's really too hard to explain, i just kind of know it in my head and i cant really write down the proper train of thoughts.

Finally, i made the decision that religion is just a way to subject yourself to leadership.

My predictions: Jesus will never come again and people will get sick of waiting for him. Christianity will die out.

Final Argument: The Bible
Although i do no believe the bible is the word of god. In my experience reading it i saw it for what it really was. Sort of a "based on a true story" type movies we have today. Do i believe a man named Jesus lived.Yes. Do i believe he was the son of god. NO


I say that i am feral because i am ambidexterous and i can mentally release adrenaline into my system at will (for short, sporatic periods of time). It works good in sports and fights. I also got shot with a .22 caliber rifle a few years back (summer camp accident) and i have never been the same since. I know you people probably dont believe me, but i really couldnt care less. Believe it or not I learned how to do that adrenaline thing in my first lucid dream 7 years ago.

Seeker, while were on that topic, i need to have a talk with you about the brain while in a dream. Maybe i'll open a thread in the lounge.

Originally Posted by Hominus

I firmly believe, as a former Christian, that MOST Christians do good deeds soley for hope of reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell), not because its the right thing to do.[/b]

Welcome Hominus Feralis! I don't know if the majority of christians believe that, but it would be a sad state of affairs if that were so since their scriptures state we cannot earn our salvation.

Isaiah 53:5 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Why do humans keep pets?

Why do people post inflamitory comments in this forum?

Originally Posted by 151

Why do humans keep pets?
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Humans like companionship?

as for me,
im tired of comtemplating god vs. science.

i live my life based right and wrong.
and im not pushing it because to each his own,
but thats what everyone really should do.
I mean, does the bible not teach you to be a good person?
To not steal, to treat others with respect?
Same for the Torah.
The point of religions like these is to help us become better people.
So why not just do what is right without caring whether someone is watching?

we are his DCs

So the thing is if there is a god he doesn't care about us and he sure as hell isn't a benevolent all good being.

Try and think of one all good thing one thing that didn't hurt anyone or anything (besides a puppy)
You can't because everything bothers somebody
(if you do come across something you're wrong because it hurts me and my arguement)

Try and think of one completley evil thing that was bad to everybody
you can't because nobody has ever done anything without any good intentions evn if they were only for themselves
(if you do come across something you're wrong because its good for you and your arguement)

So were there a god at all he'd be impartial,neutral and zen like

thats why im all for the lots of gods theory or none at all theory

As for why we do good things it basically just the golden rule "treat others as you would like to be treated"
and if they dont respond with kindness respond to their rudeness... Hard

P.S. dude what was it like getting shot? did you go into shock or keep going?

after i got shot i passed out for upwards of 5 minutes. I woke up in a pick up truck on the way to the hospital. I couldnt see out of my left eye and i couldnt breath very well. Not fun. The worst part was when they took the bullet out, because they couldnt give me any morphine right away because of the state i was in. Although your brain has no nerves, it was a very unnatural experience to have tweasers being stuck into your head.

Originally Posted by craigo66

So the thing is if there is a god he doesn't care about us and he sure as hell isn't a benevolent all good being.[/b]

Well, this God character is supposed to be omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omnipresent, right? Well, those three just don't work together (unless evil is good). If God is all good, all knowing, and all powerful, there would be no evil unless God made/allowed it to happen. God could be all good and all knowing but not all powerful, because that would allow for the evil to be out there, but not blame God for it being there. God could be all powerful and all knowing, but not all good, again because of the evil problem. God could also be all good and all powerful without being all knowing because bad things could happen without his knowledge. It all gets more complicated if you add the ability to be in all time and influence things at different times to the all powerful part of the equation...

The problem with all of this? The bad stuff that happens. And I'm not talking about hurricanes and landslides. I'm talking about the things done with the intent to harm another being, purely for the purpose of harming them.

Harming or supporting an argument with premises don't actually hurt the arguer... they just point out flaws in the argumentation. Your conclusion may be wrong, but it doesn't hurt YOU.

thats why im all for the lots of gods theory or none at all theory[/b]

I'm for the lots of gods AND the all things are within "God" theory. Panentheistic polytheism all the way, man.

who says he has to make everything in the world right?
If he created life and everything around it,
then didnt he create terrorism? Hurracanes? Mudslides?
It creates a balance.
Like Yin and Yang.

"1. Yin and yang are opposites.

Everything has its opposite—although this is never absolute, only relative. No one thing is completely yin or completely yang. Each contains the seed of its opposite. For example, winter can turn into summer; "what goes up must come down".

2. Yin and yang are interdependent.

One cannot exist without the other. For example, day cannot exist without night. Light cannot exist without darkness.

3. Yin and yang can be further subdivided into yin and yang.

Any yin or yang aspect can be further subdivided into yin and yang. For example, temperature can be seen as either hot or cold. However, hot can be further divided into warm or burning; cold into cool or icy. Within each spectrum, there is a smaller spectrum; every beginning is a moment in time, and has a beginning and end, just as every hour has a beginning and end.

4. Yin and yang consume and support each other.

Yin and yang are usually held in balance—as one increases, the other decreases. However, imbalances can occur. There are four possible imbalances: Excess yin, excess yang, yin deficiency, and yang deficiency. During the switch to Daylight saving time, for example, there is more 'yin' than 'yang'. They can again be seen as a pair: by excess of yin there is a yang deficiency and vice versa. The imbalance is also a relative factor: the excess of yang "forces" yin to be more "concentrated".

5. Yin and yang can transform into one another.

At a particular stage, yin can transform into yang and vice versa. For example, night changes into day; warmth cools; life changes to death. However this transformation is relative too. Night and day coexist on Earth at the same time when shown from space.
6. Part of yin is in yang and part of yang is in yin.

The dots in each serve:
as a reminder that there are always traces of one in the other. For example, there is always light within the dark (e.g., the stars at night); these qualities are never completely one or the other.
as a reminder that absolute extreme side transforms instantly into the opposite, or that the labels yin and yang are conditioned by an observer's point of view. For example, the hardest stone is easiest to break. This can show that absolute discrimination between the two is artificial. "


Even if the world was all good and there was no destruction, it wouldnt be good and evil.
It would be an absolute. Can you imagine what the world would be like if everybody shared one opinion?
Absolute, whether good or evil would be an implied form of communism. Theoretically, in a perfect world,
anything and everything could go wrong.

Originally Posted by Hominus

If god does exist, he toys with you. So really the only reason he created mankind was so he could have people praise him. That seems a little.....SELFISH.
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Personally I believe that God created us to glorify himself. Would you prefer that he hadn't created us? Even when humans screwed things up (Adam and Eve sinning in the garden) God provided an alternative to mend the broken relationship between Himself and humans (Jesus dying)

Originally Posted by Hominus

If god does exist, why didnt he make himself present to every group of people on the planet. Is it not suspicious that more than 90 percent of the world has a religion. It just proves that the need for religion is just a pathetic human quality that earns to have a greater power over itself. [/b]

Or maybe this shows that God put a yearning inside every human for himself and some people merely create an alternative to fill this desire.

Originally Posted by Hominus

Why didnt god show up to Native Americans, Incans, Mayas, Budhists, or Germanic Tribes? He chose one group of people.[/b]

I won't pretend that I completely know the answer to this one but I would like to point you too Romans 1:19-20 which says "19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." (English Standard Version) If you prefer a different translation check out www.biblegateway.com and you can look up a whole bunch of translations.

Originally Posted by Hominus

Maybe God likes seeing us fight over him. In that case he is one sadistic asshole.
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Considering that He allowed His only Son to die for humanties sins I don't think so.

I don't expect you to believe or buy into what I said (although if you do, pm me or something), I just hope that you can see how your questions could be answered from another point of view.

People forget that Creation is not finished yet.

God is Eternal, no?

Well, Eternity is not Finished yet.

God can only be considered PERFECT in the completeness of Time. Time still has a long way to go.

so it is reasonable to suppose, in this halfway point of time, that creation must still be in process, and we are part of that process.

Now, as the Sanskrit Philosophers divide it up, there is Creation and there is God, or Brahma. The Divine Part is seen as the unchanging nucleus -- the Intelligence and Awareness central to the Universe and which intrepenetrates the Universe.

It is the contact that the Physical Universe has with God that impells the physical world forward toward evolution and perfection.