Thread: Jews enslaved by Egyptians? Fact or Fiction?

The Jews were never in Egypt. Where's the proof.

Also, slaves did not build the pyramids.

You want to find millenia year old foot prints in the desert?

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

You want to find millenia year old foot prints in the desert?

Maybe not footprints... but records of some kind surely would still exist if that were true.

Perhaps this is yet another claim from the bible that merely needs to be interpreted differently. Perhaps by "Jews", god really meant "Egyptians."

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Maybe not footprints... but records of some kind surely would still exist if that were true.

Perhaps this is yet another claim from the bible that merely needs to be interpreted differently. Perhaps by "Jews", god really meant "Egyptians."

lulz

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Perhaps by "Jews", god really meant "Egyptians."

God made a typo? He's culturally ignorant? It's all just 'the Middle East...Africa...you know...terrorists...' to him?

Probably.

Maybe it's lost history. Or maybe you haven't looked far enough into the issue. I mean, they were just one tribe, no? It's not like they were some giant civilization to leave behind tons of evidence.

No where in the OT does it say anything about the Jews building the pyramids, which would be ridiculous since the pyramids were completed thousands of years before there was a group of people called Jews. Also, I can find no mention of the word slave at all in exodus. It says they were oppressed, but I'm sure all of the people of Egypt were oppressed under the Pharaohs' rule. Its no different than illegal aliens in America today. They are given crappy jobs with shit for pay. They are discriminated against and treated like shit, but they are not slaves exactly. And Despite what everyone says about trying to get rid of them, if all of the illegal Aliens decided to have a mass exodus, our economy would take a major hit, and it would be logical to keep them from leaving.

I was reading something recently that academics actually quantified what pharoah was ruling during the time of Moses (who freed the slaves to those of you who don't know). I think it was Seti the first.

There was a show on PBS a short while back I watched that places the Jews in Egypt and seemed to verify the stories of Joseph. As to the exodous, I didnt watch that far into the show. I know the show did state that the pyramids were there long before the Jews were. Maybe if you search through the PBS website you may find the show.

There was an interesting thing on the history channel describing how the plagues were possible, with a strong correlation to an eruption on santorini.

There seemed to be a few things in the documentry, on of which was the Ipuwer papyrus : http://www.konig.org/wc52.htm

There might be others...

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

No where in the OT does it say anything about the Jews building the pyramids, which would be ridiculous since the pyramids were completed thousands of years before there was a group of people called Jews. Also, I can find no mention of the word slave at all in exodus. It says they were oppressed, but I'm sure all of the people of Egypt were oppressed under the Pharaohs' rule. Its no different than illegal aliens in America today. They are given crappy jobs with shit for pay. They are discriminated against and treated like shit, but they are not slaves exactly. And Despite what everyone says about trying to get rid of them, if all of the illegal Aliens decided to have a mass exodus, our economy would take a major hit, and it would be logical to keep them from leaving.

Ok, so I was wrong in saying pyramids... two whole cities is more accurate.

Exodus Chapter 1 Verses 6-14

6 Now Joseph and all his brothers and that whole generation died.
7 But the Israelites were fruitful and prolific. They became so numerous and strong that the land was filled with them.
8 Then a new king, who knew nothing of Joseph, came to power in Egypt.
9 He said to his subjects, "Look how numerous and powerful the Israelite people are growing, more so than we ourselves!
10 Come, let us deal shrewdly with them to stop their increase; otherwise, in time of war they too may join our enemies to fight against us, and so leave our country."
11 Accordingly, taskmasters were set over the Israelites to oppress them with forced labor. Thus they had to build for Pharaoh the supply cities of Pithom and Raamses.
12 Yet the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread. The Egyptians, then, dreaded the Israelites
13 and reduced them to cruel slavery,
14 making life bitter for them with hard work in mortar and brick and all kinds of field work--the whole cruel fate of slaves

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Perhaps by "Jews", god really meant "Egyptians."

And by "Egyptians", he meant "space aliens".

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Also, I can find no mention of the word slave at all in exodus.

That is because your version uses the word "servant" instead of "slave". It makes the Bible look more tame to say it's okay to beat your servant to death than to say it is okay to beat your slave to death.

I remember seeing something on this on Discovery once. There were in face Jews in Egypt, there was writing on walls that specifically mentioned *whatever the Jews called god at that time* found in Egypt.

They never found evidence that they were slaves though.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is because your version uses the word "servant" instead of "slave". It makes the Bible look more tame to say it's okay to beat your servant to death than to say it is okay to beat your slave to death.

Um no, if you kill your slave you are liable for death, if you knock out his tooth you are obligated to free him.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Um no, if you kill your slave you are liable for death, if you knock out his tooth you are obligated to free him.

You can't kill a slave on the spot, but it is okay to beat him and leave him for dead if he dies like two days later. That is because he is "your property".


Exodus 21:20-21
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

Originally Posted by Elis D.

Ok, so I was wrong in saying pyramids... two whole cities is more accurate.

Exodus Chapter 1 Verses 6-14

What bible is that from? I don't have mine with me because I'm at work, but net.bible.org has exodus 1:13-14 as saying, "and they made the Israelites serve rigorously.1:14 They made their lives bitter by hard service with mortar and bricks and by all kinds of service in the fields. Every kind of service the Israelites were required to give was rigorous.

Like I said, there is no mention of slavery but of hard work. Similar to immigrant farm work in the U.S. You can force people to do a certain type of work without making them slaves. Unless of course you think mexicans like to pick fruit and do construction labor.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

And by "Egyptians", he meant "space aliens".



That is because your version uses the word "servant" instead of "slave". It makes the Bible look more tame to say it's okay to beat your servant to death than to say it is okay to beat your slave to death.

No, it doesn't say servants either. It says that they 'served rigorously' but nowhere else in the bible is slavery described in this way. Like I said to Elis D., the way they are described in exodus sounds very similar to migrant labor of today, which is exactly what they were.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

No, it doesn't say servants either. It says that they 'served rigorously' but nowhere else in the bible is slavery described in this way. Like I said to Elis D., the way they are described in exodus sounds very similar to migrant labor of today, which is exactly what they were.

Could you quote your Bible's passage of Exodus 21:20-21 and say what you think it means?

Exodus 21:20-21
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

Does it substitute "served rigorously" in for "slave" and "property"?

What exactly does that have to do with the Jewish position in eqypt? It regards slaves that the Jews might take themselves.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What exactly does that have to do with the Jewish position in eqypt? It regards slaves that the Jews might take themselves.

It has to do with comments you made in this thread.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It has to do with comments you made in this thread.

I've come to the conclusion that you just like to disagree with me for some reason. Are you arguing that the Jews were slaves in eqypt then? Are you speaking out against the pharoah's oppression of the hebrew race?

I guess I should have been more specific. Let me rephrase my comment, the only one you could possibly be refering to; I see no mention of the jews being slaves in eqypt in the book of exodus. Later, I guess it talks about the rules involved when Jews own slaves themselves, but since that doesn't have anything to do with the current topic, only someone who is looking for any opportunity to disagree would try to use that out of context as an argument.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I've come to the conclusion that you just like to disagree with me for some reason. Are you arguing that the Jews were slaves in eqypt then? Are you speaking out against the pharoah's oppression of the hebrew race?

I guess I should have been more specific. Let me rephrase my comment, the only one you could possibly be refering to; I see no mention of the jews being slaves in eqypt in the book of exodus. Later, I guess it talks about the rules involved when Jews own slaves themselves, but since that doesn't have anything to do with the current topic, only someone who is looking for any opportunity to disagree would try to use that out of context as an argument.

Mystic, do you remember saying this...

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Also, I can find no mention of the word slave at all in exodus.

?

Well, that opened the door to my making a crack about how Exodus happens to be the Bible book that says it's okay to beat slaves to death as long as they die two days after you beat them because they are your property. It happens to be what I consider to be about the most discrediting statement in the entire book. Then you started debating me on that. Remember? Think back. Focus.

I might start posting the Seattle Troll Statue picture under your posts now.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Well, that opened the door to my making a crack about how Exodus happens to be the Bible book that says it's okay to beat slaves to death as long as they die two days after you beat them because they are your property. It happens to be what I consider to be about the most discrediting statement in the entire book. Then you started debating me on that. Remember? Think back. Focus.

I might start posting the Seattle Troll Statue picture under your posts now.

I can't believe you're making me do this.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I guess I should have been more specific. Let me rephrase my comment, the only one you could possibly be refering to; I see no mention of the jews being slaves in eqypt in the book of exodus. Later, I guess it talks about the rules involved when Jews own slaves themselves, but since that doesn't have anything to do with the current topic, only someone who is looking for any opportunity to disagree would try to use that out of context as an argument.

It's like I already replied to your post somewhere... oh wait; you actually quoted my reply before you posted.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What exactly does that have to do with the Jewish position in eqypt? It regards slaves that the Jews might take themselves.

He's trying to see if your bible uses the word slave where his/my translations do.
If it replaces slave with servant in your translation, then we can come to the conclusion that whoever translated your bible didn't want Xianity to sound harsh so they removed the word slave.


That was the New American Bible, KJV and NIV say "They were forced by the Egyptians to serve with rigor", which means slavery. Forcing someone to work is slavery, not migrant working.

People always try to deny that there is slavery in the bible, when it's even condoned in the New Testamant, and was used as a defense of slavery in the U.S.