Thread: Just an honest question

O'nus claims to have done so. Haven't seen him around lately.

I'd say that the atheists here are pretty persuasive (well they do have common sense on the side of their arguments). They haven't made me stop believing in God but I'd say that reading through alot of the topics has made me question some things.

From what little I know about this forum, I would say no. Most people refuse to waver from the things they believe in. I can't speak for everyone though.

I was Christian up until a couple years ago (I'm 16 now). Living in the Bible Belt, I am a "self made" Agnostic / Atheist. I started listening to lots of music, and researching musical influences brought along researching cultures, religions, philosophy, etc.

I started using my brain, and I evolved into an Agnostic.

If anyone on this forum's beliefs are changed, they will just leave and never, ever admit defeat.

Ever.

Oh... I misread the question.

I guess you can disregard my post then, since nobody really had to convince me of anything.


I agree with Seis, though.

In religious aspects, no... I was born atheist and have never been presented solid evidence to become theist so...

In the finer aspects of atheism and secularism there has been a lot that I've learned from the different fine shades of atheism that exist in this forum and elsewhere.
So yeah... I've never learned anything from a theist, really...

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

O'nus claims to have done so. Haven't seen him around lately.

If I remember reading right, O'nus said something about incorporating parts of others views into his seeing of things.

I tend to incorporate "others" definitions of something I am aware of into my view as well.
It is not for me to adopt somone elses view of something, but rather to further define what it is i am already aware of, what is already in my view. To that end, both atheist and theists and all in between on these forums have been quite a valuable asset. I see what it is I see, but sometimes i lack the seemingly proper words or terminology to describe it or put it into a conscious order.

To go looking for a belief to believe in, for the mere sake of having something to believe in, is in a way folly. So is it equall folly to go looking for a belief to negate simply for the sake of negating it.
One must find the picture within themselves and work from there to define that picture and better focus on it. One must work from the inside out, not from the outside in.

I wish O'nus would come back for a bit, as I have some ideas to throw out to him to contemplate.

I genuinely started out as a catholic, and believed what was taught. The first stuff to go was all the bs ritual stuff, but the idea that there was a god lingered. It was only in high school that I started thinking more seriously about all that stuff.

Yeah I was born an atheist, since birth I knew God was bullshit, eventho I'm raised catholic and was forced to go to church each sunday. It's not until recently (a year or so ago) that I finally understood what God is, and what they were talking about in the Bible. So yeah I became convinced God exists ^^

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.

Yeah I was born an atheist, since birth I knew God was bullshit, eventho I'm raised catholic and was forced to go to church each sunday. It's not until recently (a year or so ago) that I finally understood what God is, and what they were talking about in the Bible. So yeah I became convinced God exists ^^

Sounds like all that indoctrinating got to you. And just because you might understand something, it doesn't mean it exists. I might have a good understanding of Aslan's character in the Narnia series but it doesn't make him a real person (or creature)!

Interesting point by the way, an omniscient God would know the only reason most people believe is because of childhood indoctrination (evident due to massive correlation between a person's religion and their childrens'), and so know you're not a true believer and therefore you would not be saved!

After all, how can you be a true believer, unless you were born in to an atheist family (or at least did not have religion forced upon you in any way, shape, or form), and subsequently sought God out? Having your thought patterns altered - usually at a young age when the mind is vulnerable to believing anything - by effectively being brainwashed from a completely biased source without any alternative theories does not make you a believer. It simply makes you a victim of brainwashing.

Seems like most of us will be enjoying hell after all!

Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed

O'nus claims to have done so. Haven't seen him around lately.

Yes, O'nus played a huge part in me becoming Atheist-Agnostic.

Originally Posted by Rock

I joined this forum a long time ago, and I actually started a thread (to Christians) but I didn't get a meaningful response, all I got was comments from atheists condemning me for not including them in my post. Anyway, since then I haven't started nor replied on any other posts, but I read most of the threads in the Religion/Spirituality forum, which just sparked a question that I felt I needed to ask. Have any of you actually EVER been convinced by the opinion of the opposite party? Have any of you converted to another religion, became an atheist or became convinced that God exists?

Yes, I was a Christian until I was 16, at which age I was convinced by atheists and agnostics that what I believed did not make sense.

I was also a left wing war protestor in college, and people on the other side of the argument got me to understand everything I was not taking into consideration. I went through a period of major anger at Christianity after I stopped being a Christian. It had really freaked me out and made me take stances I otherwise would not have taken, and that had a lot to do with my anger at political conservatism, which is why I was a left wing war protestor for a while.

I think many of you are missing the point here. I'm not asking if any of you changed their beliefs, because that's pretty obvious since many people here are atheists and I think it's safe to say that most of these were born into theist families then became atheists. What I'm asking is: did anyone change their beliefs (entirely; ie from atheist to theist, or vice versa) BECAUSE of this forum?

Originally Posted by Rock

I think many of you are missing the point here. I'm not asking if any of you changed their beliefs, because that's pretty obvious since many people here are atheists and I think it's safe to say that most of these were born into theist families then became atheists. What I'm asking is: did anyone change their beliefs (entirely; ie from atheist to theist, or vice versa) BECAUSE of this forum?

No, but I would love to believe in God. Can you get me there?

I used to be an atheist when I was about 12. That was only a short phase. But I never changed my beliefs because of this forum.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No, but I would love to believe in God. Can you get me there?

Based on my experiences in this forum, this statement coming from UM would probably be sarcastic, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't. So the question is: What happened that ultimately convinced you of the absence of God?

I don't know about sarcastic but he was definitely trying to be funny.

Originally Posted by Rock

Based on my experiences in this forum, this statement coming from UM would probably be sarcastic, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't. So the question is: What happened that ultimately convinced you of the absence of God?

I was not being sarcastic. Really, the idea of the Christian God is one of the scariest ideas I know of, but I would like to believe in a God who does not promote or condone any kind of suffering. The Noah's Ark, sin creation, terrify Abraham God of the Bible is a very scary character, so Christianity is not what I am going for. I would like to believe in a universal mind or Brahman type God. I want to be immortal and forever blissful, but I do not seek to believe in an angry God who behaves irrationally.

To answer your question... It started to seem like more and more of a far feteched concept. After a while, the only thread holding me to my belief in God was the idea that the greatness of the universe could not have just happened by itself. My father made the point one night that the same argument would apply to God. I said the usual, "He has always been." My father said, "Maybe the universe has always been." The thought blew my mind, and I was speechless. I became an agnostic at that very moment. I became an atheist later, when I realized that there was nothing infinitely powerful and totally good in the hospital room when the doctors were trying to save my uncle's life and could not do it.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Universal mind how can you know your father and you, were not talking about aspects of the same life from different positions in their spectrum of existence. Why is it restricted to one way or the other.

If I were to ever believe in "God" again, it would most likely be that one. It is just that I don't have reason to believe that the universe is human like, and when you take away the human like qualities, I am not sure about using that word.

Also how do you know what happens after death maybe your uncle was blessed for dieing because that turns you from one dimension to the other. Which has opposite aspects. Like when you sleep and wake up. How do you know it's not just another birth back from where you were to begin with. I thought changing dimensions was always a more logical explanation that not existing after already existing.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Also how do you know what happens after death maybe your uncle was blessed for dieing because that turns you from one dimension to the other. Which has opposite aspects. Like when you sleep and wake up. How do you know it's not just another birth back from where you were to begin with. I thought changing dimensions was always a more logical explanation that not existing after already existing.

If he had been the only person in existence, I would agree with the significance of that what if, but his death caused a lot of suffering. If an infinitely powerful and totally good being existed, there would be zero necessity for suffering and suffering would not exist.

If I were to ever believe in "God" again, it would most likely be that one. It is just that I don't have reason to believe that the universe is human like, and when you take away the human like qualities, I am not sure about using that word.

You have one logical flaw. You think you, as you exist. Cannot be the universe as it exists on another scale. There is no possible way things can be different than what you are. Anything within the universe must therefore be in you. For both to exist at all.

Maybe your suffering was self induced. If that was the case infinite love would not interfere with self induced decisions because that would be impossible.