Thread: A Question.

Speaking for my self here, I would only become Christian if God appeared to me, proved me his omnipotence and omniscience and then told me specifically the bible is his word and Christianity is correct.

I would also ask some other questions about the state of the world and the way god chose to reveal himself through history. If he turned out to really be a douche, I would proceed to show him the middle finger.

something else to add to this, from antony flew,

" Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?" "

I fail to see how that is relevant to the topic.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Speaking for my self here, I would only become Christian if God appeared to me, proved me his omnipotence and omniscience and then told me specifically the bible is his word and Christianity is correct.

well, it doesn't have to be the christian god, it can be any god for this matter, biologists have already came to the conclusion that there most of been some super intelligence behind the making of DNA because of the complexity, it just doesn't have to be the christian god, it could be wrong, it could be vishnu for all we know

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

biologists have already came to the conclusion that there most of been some super intelligence behind the making of DNA because of the complexity

Lol.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I fail to see how that is relevant to the topic.

it's relevant because that's a reason an atheist would believe in a higher being, because of the complexity of the DNA there must be a super intelligence behind it, that would be a reason to believe in a higher being, that would be a reason for an atheist to believe in god.

Humans have designed things more complex than DNA. Does that mean we're hyper-super-intelligent?

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Humans have designed things more complex than DNA. Does that mean we're hyper-super-intelligent?

name something

The laptop I'm using right now.

Don't forget Terry Pratchett - although he hasn't exactly conformed to christianity. He just thinks there is a God.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

The laptop I'm using right now.

uhm no

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Don't forget Terry Pratchett - although he hasn't exactly conformed to christianity. He just thinks there is a God.

nice, did he give any reasoning to it?

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

name something

The whole Human genome would fit onto a DVD (normal sized would constitute 4GB, the human genome would not fill a DVD), and that is all the junk DNA and DNA that is not exclusive to humans. For DNA unique to yourself, a file the size of a normal mp3 would do.

Age of Conan however is 32GB big. A piece of software already has more data for it than the human genome, and hardly any of the data for the game is 'junk', so people have designed more complex things than DNA.

Processors, Hard-drives, Particle Accelerators, etc.

Your point is?

it's getting off topic, back to the question, why would an atheist start to believe in a god?

Too fast bluefinger, I was going to post Dr. Cox' clip first.

Here it is anyway:

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

uhm no

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

it's getting off topic, back to the question, why would an atheist start to believe in a god?

You started claiming DNA was somehow so complex that only through an intelligent force could it arise. We showed you that was not the case simply by comparing it to things we have designed that were far more complex.

As for the question, I'd expect no less than for not only God to appear to me, but also appear during a moment when in the presence of sceptics like myself so that I can confirm the phenomena with like-minded individuals, just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. Then he would to show if he was omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient as the Bible claims, or if he even is the Christian God. Either way, he'd have to make himself pretty damn clear, and not through some 2000 year old book written by sheep-herders.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

The whole Human genome would fit onto a DVD (normal sized would constitute 4GB, the human genome would not fill a DVD), and that is all the junk DNA and DNA that is not exclusive to humans. For DNA unique to yourself, a file the size of a normal mp3 would do.

Age of Conan however is 32GB big. A piece of software already has more data for it than the human genome, and hardly any of the data for the game is 'junk', so people have designed more complex things than DNA.

Processors, Hard-drives, Particle Accelerators, etc.

Your point is?

complex: so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with



if your statement is true, and video games, processors, hard-drives, particle acclerators, etc. etc. are more complex than DNA then scientists would be making artificial life forms that aren't robots, they'd be able to create lifeforms, and don't say "cloning is creating new lifeforms" that's replicating a lifeform

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

complex: so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with

if your statement is true, and video games, processors, hard-drives, particle acclerators, etc. etc. are more complex than DNA then scientists would be making artificial life forms that aren't robots, they'd be able to create lifeforms, and don't say "cloning is creating new lifeforms" that's replicating a lifeform

We've done experiments such as probing into the very nature of matter by accelerating particles to huge energies and smashing them together, and then detecting the resulting radiation and particles emitted from such collisions with incredibly sensitive equipment.

As for life-forms, I think there are experiments going on to do just that, create a synthetic life-form. If anything, it is already a work-in-progress for Science, because the challenge was there.

In the end, Science wins.

I do know atheists who have considered the possibility of some for of God because of biology. they see biology, and they see something that could not have just come about randomly, or through chance.

this doesn't convert them into christianity - just into the idea of some higher consciousness

I think its dangerous for an atheist to automatically assume that God=christianity. then they would carry a very close minded view of what it means to people who discover 'God' through science

Most people I know who've converted to Christianity or another faith have done so because evidence of mystical or religious experience doesn't fit with atheism, they feel like there is a God and this feeling is too strong to ignore, they need a reason to hope or they are afraid of death.

Among the reasons I stopped being a Christian are that mystical or religious experience didn't fit with Christianity, I felt like there was a God and worship and I wanted to know what it was for real. I needed a reason to hope for a better world and I was afraid of death as a Christian.

Originally Posted by apachama

evidence of mystical or religious experience doesn't fit with atheism

That's bullcrap. There's nothing that would keep an atheist from spiritual experiences and activities including but not limited to meditation, hypnosis, the intake of pyschoactive drugs, sensory deprivation, lucidity, ascetism, spiritual retreats, fasting and other such things.
The only difference is that you don't need to pretend to know things that you in fact do not know.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

I would only become Christian if God appeared to me, proved me his omnipotence and omniscience and then told me specifically the bible is his word and Christianity is correct.

In other words whatever the truth may be, it must be given to you on a platter.
That is not rewarding.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

In other words whatever the truth may be, it must be given to you on a platter.
That is not rewarding.

I agree. Yet another reason I dislike Christianity. Absolute truth in one little book. Where's the fun in that? Truth is something you have to search for, struggle for.

Truth is something that while you are looking for it you sometimes make mistakes. In Christianity, make the wrong mistake and you'll fall of the precarious perch of doctrinal correctness. Not for me thanks.

You're not talking about Christianity but the pope and the catholic church establishment and the child molesters that threaten with hellfire. They aren't authorities of Christianity just like the school bully isn't the teacher. The bible is extremely difficult to understand when you are studying it on your own without others telling you what to think about it. The symbolism is so rich and the parables so deep that you actually need geometry, maths, and a number of other sciences to begin to appreciate what it is even representing or saying spiritually. It's writings is not complete parts have being taken out through history. For instance there is no direct writing from Jesus in his own words. Who knows what they have locked up in the Vatican lets not even go there.

Throwing away the bible because of money laundering, manipulation, child molesters and the pope is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. It's a historical document. Even if such an influential and powerful inspiring writing was nothing more than pure fantasy it quite clearly contains some spiritual guidance and much food for thought. But most probably from those with great experience that have encountered and had some extra-ordinary things happen to them.