Thread: Questions about Mormonism.

You said you would expect alot of controversy so i am going to start by saying i don't want to be a dick in this thread. And i hope we can have cival conversation because i have limited but maybe better than an average person's knowing on mormonism. My first question is, are you aware that mormonism is contradictory to DNA? (again im not trying to be a dick, but i just want to hear what a mormon says about it)

How do you feel of the racist Mormon view that black skinned people are blacked skinned because of alleged evils or defiance?

It's off topic but I just wanted to say that I think your art work is awesome Exo.

How can you believe something as silly as a known con-artist and trickster, Joseph Smith, finding gold tablets that no one else saw and stuck his head into a hat to read them. Basically, I watched the South Park episode about Mormonism and thought they were making it all up and couldn't believe that when I researched it South Park didn't lie about any of it.

So there's my question, how can you bring yourself to believe it?

Interesting thread, the people who already posted asked some good question, Ill keep my eye on this thread..

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

How can you believe something as silly as a known con-artist and trickster, Joseph Smith, finding gold tablets that no one else saw and stuck his head into a hat to read them.

And then he lost them!

Let's see..what about Jesus and Satan being brothers? I don't really care myself, but that's one you might get asked, seeing how it has come to popular attention lately.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

So there's my question, how can you bring yourself to believe it?

Originally Posted by 27

Also, I won't be answering questions about my own conversion, I feel it's too personal to share to a group of strangers in a format like this, or general questions about Christianity or theism which have been discussed at length else where.

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i find the mormon faith very odd but before i ask any questions i have to say that my next door neighbors are mormon and they are the best nieghbors ever! -----got that out of the way-----

is it true about Joseph Smith, how he found the gold tablets and stuck his face in a hat and got all "information" . to me (not to be disrespectful) it sounds like bullshit.

Grod, I'm not asking him about how he converted. I'm asking him if there is something that is unbenownst to us that makes this overlookable. But thanks for your concern.

"How can you believe it," is basically the same as "Conversion (How he believes it)" but meh, whatever.

Great questions. I'll do my best to answer them.

Originally Posted by ExoByte

How do you feel of the racist Mormon view that black skinned people are blacked skinned because of alleged evils or defiance?

First off, this is not Mormon doctrine. There is nothing racist or prejudice in our beliefs. Yes, some of our early leaders harvested racist tendencies that were common in their time. And some have said that because these statements came from leaders we sustain as prophets that that the LDS church is a racist organization. This it false. No one is perfect. Not even a prophet of God. Yes, they were wrong, but a prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as a prophet. I don't judge them or anyone else for their mistakes and imperfections.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

How can you believe something as silly as a known con-artist and trickster, Joseph Smith, finding gold tablets that no one else saw and stuck his head into a hat to read them. Basically, I watched the South Park episode about Mormonism and thought they were making it all up and couldn't believe that when I researched it South Park didn't lie about any of it.

So there's my question, how can you bring yourself to believe it?

I could repost my assessment of that episode and the many inconsistencies, mistakes, and lies in it. I watch the show sometimes. It's usually very funny. But I don't take anything it says at fact. As to how I can believe it? Well I as I said I'm not comfortable discussing my conversion here, but I will say that I find it amazing that anyone can look at the LDS church's history and not walk away with a deep respect for Joseph Smith. A little over 175 years ago the entire Mormon Church met together in one small log cabin. Today we have over 13,000,000 members, of whom most live out side the United States, and membership continues to rapidly rise. I personally don't see how an uneducated farm boy from rural New York could create such a universally appealing religion. Let's face it, Joseph Smith is either a prophet of God, or one of the smartest men ever to have lived.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

And then he lost them!

Let's see..what about Jesus and Satan being brothers? I don't really care myself, but that's one you might get asked, seeing how it has come to popular attention lately.

You know, I was actually surprised to learn most other Christians don't believe this ! Yes we believe God created everything, and everyone. We are all spiritual brothers and sisters. You, me, Jesus, Satan, and everyone else on earth come from the same Heavenly Father, and all belong to the same spiritual family.

Originally Posted by aceboy

i find the mormon faith very odd but before i ask any questions i have to say that my next door neighbors are mormon and they are the best nieghbors ever! -----got that out of the way-----

is it true about Joseph Smith, how he found the gold tablets and stuck his face in a hat and got all "information" . to me (not to be disrespectful) it sounds like bullshit.

Yes, Joseph Smith obtained the gold plates from a hill near his home in Palmyra, New York. He translated these plates from ancient texts to modern english under the guidance of the Lord. This translation is today the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ. As I understand it Joseph used different methods of translating the record, sometimes, as strange as it sounds, out of a hat. I don't know why he chose to translate this way, I'm not sure how often he used this method. But I'm not really conserned why. I don't see it as an important piece of church history.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

You said you would expect alot of controversy so i am going to start by saying i don't want to be a dick in this thread. And i hope we can have cival conversation because i have limited but maybe better than an average person's knowing on mormonism. My first question is, are you aware that mormonism is contradictory to DNA? (again im not trying to be a dick, but i just want to hear what a mormon says about it)

Ha! Don’t sweat it Riot Maker, you're fine. Truth is I expect a bit of "dickishness" in here. Well this is the church's official statement on DNA evidence and the Book of Mormon-

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is exactly what it claims to be — a record of God's dealings with peoples of ancient America and a second witness of the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ. The strongest witness of the Book of Mormon is to be obtained by living the Christ-centered principles contained in its pages and by praying about its truthfulness. Recent attacks on the veracity of the Book of Mormon based on DNA evidence are ill considered. Nothing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin. The scientific issues relating to DNA, however, are numerous and complex.

Once you start talking genetics I get a little in over my head. If you want a more in depth answer There's a great link here.

You're not giving answers, you're avoiding answers and merely attempting to promote Mormonism.

I personally don't see how an uneducated farm boy from rural New York could create such a universally appealing religion. Let's face it, Joseph Smith is either a prophet of God, or one of the smartest men ever to have lived.

Or a Con Artist... which happens to be the factual option. He was an infamous Con Artist of the time, how can you trust in someone who spent his life as a liar?

First off, this is not Mormon doctrine. There is nothing racist or prejudice in our beliefs. Yes, some of our early leaders harvested racist tendencies that were common in their time. And some have said that because these statements came from leaders we sustain as prophets that that the LDS church is a racist organization. This it false. No one is perfect. Not even a prophet of God. Yes, they were wrong, but a prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as a prophet. I don't judge them or anyone else for their mistakes and imperfections.

2 Nephi 5: 21- 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6- 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

I have heard that during wedding ceremonies, non Latter day Saints are not welcome to come, even if they are the parents of the couple.

Do you agree with this? I would have thought that non-LDS's would be welcomed to attend any service, especially something like a wedding, to experience the spirituality of your religion and hopefully convert to it. It seems unfair to exclude parents from witnessing their child's wedding just because they are not of the same faith.

What is the faith of your parents?

Exo, the passages you posted refer to the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon. If you had read the Book of Mormon itself you'd know that at times the lighter skinned Nephites were wicked and the darker skinned Lamanits were righteous. The dark skin (given to the Lamanites who we believe today to be the ansestors of Native Americans) was a sign of separation between the two peoples, not a mark of wickedness. If you feel I've avoided any other questions please point them out. I'm not "promoting Mormonism", only promoting understanding and tolerance, which is all I've ever tried to do in the R/S forum. Believe me when I tell you I know no one is ever going to convert from their beliefs due to an online forum .

Cuddleyperson, great question. The reason non-members cannot attend LDS wedding ceremonies is because these ceremonies are held in our temples. Only those with a temple recommend, that is, only those who belong to the church and are living its principals, can enter a LDS temple. We consider temples the holiest places on earth and are selective about who may enter. However, if a couple chooses to have a wedding ceremony outside the temple, anyone can attend.

Carôusoul, my father has been a member of the church his whole life, however he was inactive when he met my mother. My mother is a convert to the church and joined when I was 3 years old.

Originally Posted by exo

You're not giving answers, you're avoiding answers and merely attempting to promote Mormonism.

Quote:

I personally don't see how an uneducated farm boy from rural New York could create such a universally appealing religion. Let's face it, Joseph Smith is either a prophet of God, or one of the smartest men ever to have lived.

Or a Con Artist... which happens to be the factual option. He was an infamous Con Artist of the time, how can you trust in someone who spent his life as a liar?

Did you meet joseph smith? can you tell without a doubt that he was a liar? No. So your option is just as likely as the other options.

And if you would have read the very begining of the book, there are 11 other people who saw these gold plates, besides joseph smith. So it wasnt just him that saw the gold plates.

Originally Posted by 27

Carôusoul, my father has been a member of the church his whole life, however he was inactive when he met my mother. My mother is a convert to the church and joined when I was 3 years old.

The church of the LDS?

Originally Posted by freefire

Did you meet joseph smith? can you tell without a doubt that he was a liar? No. So your option is just as likely as the other options.

Well not to butt in, but a con artist is someone who lies by profession; and if we know him conclusively to be a con artist then we know him conclusively to be a liar. Harsh as that may sound.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

The church of the LDS?

Yep.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Well not to butt in, but a con artist is someone who lies by profession; and if we know him conclusively to be a con artist then we know him conclusively to be a liar. Harsh as that may sound.

Can you prove he was ever lieing?

Be back tomarrow!

What this sounds like is a bunch of otherwise nice decent people misqouting the book of mormon in much the same way the bible can be misqouted. Taking things out of context is not a good thing to do.

Originally Posted by freefire

Did you meet joseph smith? can you tell without a doubt that he was a liar? No. So your option is just as likely as the other options.

And if you would have read the very begining of the book, there are 11 other people who saw these gold plates, besides joseph smith. So it wasnt just him that saw the gold plates.

Documents and second hand accounts of people around him. To say "Did you meet Joseph Smith? Can you tell without a doubt that he was a liar?" is like saying "Did you meet Abraham Lincoln? Can you tell without a doubt he was president of the United States?"

Its a pitiful, dodgy argument, its an argument for having a lack of an argument. While truthfully the answer is no in both cases, its a meaningless no. Its ignoring accounts, from before his "discovery" of these "golden plates."

Originally Posted by 27

Yep.

Can you prove he was ever lieing?

Be back tomarrow!

well the point is, if we can prove he was a con artist; which exo seems to be able to do, then that by default means he must have been a liar.

Originally Posted by 27

Believe me when I tell you I know no one is ever going to convert from their beliefs due to an online forum .
.

Actually according to O'nus various people have become atheist upon reading his posts.

Originally Posted by 27

Yes, Joseph Smith obtained the gold plates from a hill near his home in Palmyra, New York. He translated these plates from ancient texts to modern english under the guidance of the Lord. This translation is today the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ. As I understand it Joseph used different methods of translating the record, sometimes, as strange as it sounds, out of a hat. I don't know why he chose to translate this way, I'm not sure how often he used this method. But I'm not really conserned why. I don't see it as an important piece of church history.

Wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight. You base your entire belief system on the Book of Mormon, but you don't think the way it was translated into English is very important? I would think it's very important, considering everything you believe in is determined by the outcome of this translation.

I may have misunderstood this, so please elaborate.