Religious Belief vs. Atheist's Belief

**Bearsy** · 02-13-2008 11:06 PM

They're really long, so I'm putting them in Spoiler Tags to cut down on clutter.

Spoiler for Gods that Christians don't believe in:

Spoiler for Gods that Atheists don't believe in:

Having posted this, the question I pose is this...

What makes your beliefs so special? Why do you feel your religion is the only true one?

This can go for any other religion here really, I just found the list as Xian vs Atheist.

Substitute your deity with Yahweh on that list.

Muslims, what makes your belief so special?
Buddhists?
Taoists?
Hindus?
Jews?
Commies?
Pastafarians?
Rastafarians?
Animists?
Catholics?
Mormons?
Shintoists?
Sikhists?
Baha'i?
Pagans?
Scientologists?

**Carôusoul** · 02-14-2008 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Elis D.

They're really long, so I'm putting them in Spoiler Tags to cut down on clutter.

Spoiler for Gods that Christians don't believe in:

Spoiler for Gods that Atheists don't believe in:

Having posted this, the question I pose is this...

What makes your beliefs so special? Why do you feel your religion is the only true one?

This can go for any other religion here really, I just found the list as Xian vs Atheist.

Substitute your deity with Yahweh on that list.

Muslims, what makes your belief so special?
Buddhists?
Taoists?
Hindus?
Jews?
Commies?
Pastafarians?
Rastafarians?
Animists?
Catholics?
Mormons?
Shintoists?
Sikhists?
Baha'i?
Pagans?
Scientologists?

Just to clarify terms; I know you probably didn't mean it this way; but Atheism is the default position; it doesn't require faith.

Sorry, it's just the title of "atheist's belief" being put on par somehow with christians belief threw me.

**Keeper** · 02-14-2008 01:18 AM

Actually, it does

Faith that others faith is wrong.

**Scatterbrain** · 02-14-2008 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Actually, it does

Faith that others faith is wrong.

Err... no it doesn't. The assumption that religion is wrong is based on logic, not faith

**Keeper** · 02-14-2008 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Err... no it doesn't. The assumption that religion is wrong is based on logic, not faith

My assumption that God exists is also based on logic. It takes faith to say that something is or is not real. It takes faith to get on the plane, or to cross the road: faith you won't get hit.

**Scatterbrain** · 02-14-2008 08:04 AM

Before crossing the road you check for coming cars. When you get on a plane you know the pilots and control tower personnel are highly trained and qualified people.

There are many problems with religious beliefs, which make them highly unlikely to be true, thus it's safe to assume they're false. No faith, just logic.

**LucidDreamGod** · 02-14-2008 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Actually, it does

Faith that others faith is wrong.

Thats true to an extent, though if faith is defined by beleif without evidence then that is not completely so, if the person is 100% atheist then your right however, and that would sometimes be considered the very definition, if it is I am not an atheist, for all we know we could be living in some kind of simulation created by a god.

this argument is actually an agrument about the definition of atheism, a argument hiden withen an original one, common to alot of religious arguments.

**Ne-yo** · 02-14-2008 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Actually, it does

Faith that others faith is wrong.

Actually this is correct!

**Scatterbrain** · 02-14-2008 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by LucidDreamGod

Thats true to an extent, though if faith is defined by beleif without evidence then that is not completely so, if the person is 100% atheist then your right however, and that would sometimes be considered the very definition, if it is I am not an atheist, for all we know we could be living in some kind of simulation created by a god.

this argument is actually an agrument about the definition of atheism, a argument hiden withen an original one, common to alot of religious arguments.

"Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)

If we're talking about the second meaning(in bold), there's absolutely no faith involved what-so-ever. However, if we're talking about silly gods(like the christian god for example), then, without faith, we can claim their non-existence, just as the same would be done for the spaghetti monster.

**Taosaur** · 02-14-2008 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Err... no it doesn't. The assumption that religion is wrong is based on logic, not faith

It is based on faith that formal logic and the scientific method are applicable to all valid realms of inquiry, and conversely that only phenomena accessible to science are valid. That's a value judgement and, yes, a system of belief.

To the OP, I know you're seeking responses from people who do believe they've found the One True Faith, so I'll just briefly note that plenty of people don't judge the validity and intellectual honesty of a person's worldview by the brand name alone.

**Keeper** · 02-14-2008 10:53 AM

To reject anything is to use faith. I reject that we are in the matrix. I have faith that we are not in it. You reject Theism: you have faith that we are wrong. Proof that we can land on the moon doesn't mean the rocket will land.

**Carôusoul** · 02-14-2008 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

To reject anything is to use faith. I reject that we are in the matrix. I have faith that we are not in it. You reject Theism: you have faith that we are wrong. Proof that we can land on the moon doesn't mean the rocket will land.

So the only person with no faith in anything would be the global sceptic, I guess?

**Keeper** · 02-14-2008 11:53 AM

Ah, but would that skeptic not - in being a skeptic - have the most faith of all?

**Carôusoul** · 02-14-2008 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Ah, but would that skeptic not - in being a skeptic - have the most faith of all?

I don't see quite how.

What would their faith be in exactly?

**Scatterbrain** · 02-14-2008 12:35 PM

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

I suppose 2.b is the meaning we're dealing with. So if you decree that the only thing we have proof for is one's existence, then yes everything requires faith, even if somethings more than others. Even then the amount of faith required to reject a personal god is negligible when compared to the faith needed for theism.

And actually, believing we live in a matrix requires less faith than to believe in god. We do know it's theoretically possible to simulate reality.

**Traveling_Troubador** · 02-15-2008 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Ah, but would that skeptic not - in being a skeptic - have the most faith of all?

It is easier to create an argument negating everything in the realms of perception than it is to affirm it. So this would make me a skeptic, and as a result, faithless. It seems easier to disprove a god than to prove it, the scales of logic tip in the favor of one over another, so I deem it the most logical and the one least requiring faith to make a distinction of truth or falsity.

Anybody get past the Cogito Ergo Sum part in Descartes Treatise?

**Keeper** · 02-16-2008 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I don't see quite how.

What would their faith be in exactly?

That every perception is wrong. I know this is a contradiction, but for them to be a skeptic of everything (technically imposable) then they have to doubt how anything could be. That takes guts ... or faith

**Xaqaria** · 02-16-2008 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Just to clarify terms; I know you probably didn't mean it this way; but Atheism is the default position; it doesn't require faith.

Sorry, it's just the title of "atheist's belief" being put on par somehow with christians belief threw me.

Isn't this like, a perfect illustration of what the OP is about? Or wait, you're going for the irony right?

**Taosaur** · 02-16-2008 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Just to clarify terms; I know you probably didn't mean it this way; but Atheism is the default position; it doesn't require faith.

Defining an unconditioned state as "atheism" is just territorial pissing. Religion--generally including, though not always emphasizing, nonhuman sentience--arose in every human culture and has proven thus far ineradicable. As a case in point, I was raised in the absence of religion and fell quite naturally into an idiosyncratic kind of quasi-theism.

Most avowed atheists, on the other hand, seem to have either been raised with contempt for religious views or rebelled against a fundamentalist upbringing. Doesn't sound too "default" to me.

From my point of view, which agrees with many atheists on a number of issues, concluding that the accumulation of scientifically gathered facts will put to bed the fundamental mysteries addressed by spiritual traditions is a profound act of faith, if not willful ignorance.

**AbyssNess** · 02-17-2008 07:43 PM

Atheists have just as much faith as the religious. The only difference is that atheists are taking a "guilty-until-proven-innocent" approach to gods and the religious are taking an "innocent-until-proven-guilty" approach to gods.

**Bonsay** · 02-18-2008 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Keeper

Actually, it does

Faith that others faith is wrong.

What about an atheist that has never heard of a religion before?

**Keeper** · 02-18-2008 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

What about an atheist that has never heard of a religion before?

Like?

**Bonsay** · 02-18-2008 06:16 AM

Well he has no concept of god, so he is still an atheist, without any kind of faith.

A religious person will always have faith, but an atheist doesn't.

**Xaqaria** · 02-18-2008 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well he has no concept of god, so he is still an atheist, without any kind of faith.

A religious person will always have faith, but an atheist doesn't.

A short list of the things you most likely have faith in;

The Earth Revolves around the sun; unless you are an astronaut, you have probably never witnessed this phenomena first hand, and yet I'll assume you believe it to be true.

Nobody will shoot you in the back today; unless of course, you have a long list of enemies and are fully expecting this to happen.

Pi is infinite and non-repeating; of course, I'm assuming you were familiar with this mathematical assumption in the first place.

It is impossible to walk through solid objects; you may or may not agree with this one but I include it because most people do (agree) and yet it is scientifically false, in that it is perfectly possible, just highly unlikely.

I'll stop there. There is near an infinite amount of things that could be named that you have faith in, and someday I'll compose a decently entertaining list of them all to respond to the endless reams of atheists claiming they live without faith in anything.

**Fox** · 02-18-2008 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It is impossible to walk through solid objects; you may or may not agree with this one but I include it because most people do (agree) and yet it is scientifically false, in that it is perfectly possible, just highly unlikely.

It is not possible to walk through a solid object unless you happen to be a gamma ray with a human consciousness - in which case you wouldn't be walking - not that any of that is even possible anyway. Follow?

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