Thread: Sex is Dirty

Originally posted by Leo Volont
sex is dirty. When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.

I could not have said it better my friend. I know sex is perverse and dirty and nasty. Thats the part I love so much. I love when I'm looking down at a girl, and I get to decide if she will be wiping that smile off her face, or something a little thicker. And when else can you mix so much pleasure with so much pain. One night with me will leave one of us sore and possible bleeding.

I think you've completely (and quite frighteningly) missed the point. Why does sex have to be an absolute, good or bad, applying to all cases?

But Sex is either beautiful or its not. Wonderful or its not.[/b]

This is a false dichotomy, it is both. Sex is good when its consentual and when theres not a minor involved, Sex is bad when its not consentual or there's a minor involved. Whats hard to understand about that?

This false dichotomy really comes out in your paedophile example. Sex with children is wrong. Children are given counselling because they have been taken advantage of, often by someone they trust, and this is not a good thing. Sex between consenting adults, however, is not wrong - it has nothing whatsoever to do with paedophilia.

The same argument applies to all criminalized sex. If it is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it so severely criminalized in some instances.[/b]

Again. Sex is fine, sex in certain cases is not, hence it is criminalised.

Also, if sex is so wonderful and beautiful then why is it that in almost every language the same word is used to convey the meaning of ‘ultimate humiliation’ as is used for referring to the sex act[/b]

Because being raped is pretty much the ultimate humiliation? Notice that noone portrays rape as good, and you're the only person I've ever met that can't distinguish between consentual and non-consentual sex.

And when women protect their children from being sexually exploited, then THAT is what they really think about sex. [/b]

THAT is what they really think about their children being sexually exploited, not what they think of sex.

When any of us can get past the physical urge and appetite for sex, and examine what we really think about it, with our heads and not with our genitalia, we must admit to ourselves that, yes, sex is dirty. When our personal justifications for it are folded back in the least, we find sex disgusting and humiliating.[/b]

All you've done in your little rant is to establish a false dichotomy for sex (good or bad) and assign it the bad value because you can't distinguish between different sexual circumstances. Sex is not either good or bad, it is both. And yes, paedophilia is fucked up - good point. What you never established is how you can possibly lump acts like paedophilia/rape with normal sex between consenting adults.

Kids get told that sex is good, and they also get told that if someone has sex with them until a certain age that is a crime. You call this a "mixed message" and say that this is the reason that paedophilia screws them up. This is not a "mixed message" because noone (besides you) has a problem differentiating these different sexual situations.

Is this a mixed message?

"Fire is is good. It cooks our food, it keeps us warm in the great outdoors, and it kickstarted our knowledge of chemistry tens of thousands of years ago. But it is also bad, because when you touch it it burns you."

Can you distinguish the two seperate cases there?

Fire is good when you're not touching it, if you are then its bad.

Sex is good when you're not doing it with a minor or someone who didn't consent, if you are then its bad.

-spoon

Edited to add. How does this fit into religion/spirtuality?

>> Sex is Dirty

Only when it's done right.

You surprise me with the thread, leo. So unwilling to accept the paradoxes of sex. When I analyze it repeatedly, all I can see is that sex is beautiful and ugly depending on how it's used. It doesn't have to be one way or the other in any one set context. Does the same knife that cuts the rope of the hanging man and stab that man good and bad at the same time, or just one of them?

Sex is the onemost thing that tends to be connected with a sense of ownership and possession. Unconsented activity is what takes away much pride and esteem of the victim, that's why it's hated so much, it's not good for survival.

Maybe Freud can tell you it's just misdirected urges when it comes to criminalized sex. Parents protect their children from sexual exploitations because they knew the average response to such a thing...hurt and pain and definately regret. We communicate a message that sex is ideally held for somebody in a mutual relationship, and I don't know if you're trying to deviate from it or not. I mean, standards of values are dwindling in the lines that separate them.

What I'm curious about is, what are you trying to justify that would inspire this thread after all?

I shall agree but not with any objectivity. Simply out of my own ideals and principles in this world and life - any animal instinct is far from them and since I make it a point to live my life adhering to my principles, I think my agreement is justified.
I won't elaborate on the topic any more simply because of the title.

Sex is Dirty[/b]

Only when it's done alone.

hmmm

messyfun.com

erm..doesnt anyone know that the original purpose of sex is pro-creation? Our higher intelligence (ha ha) seperates us from animals, do u think apes worry about STI's and whether she's too young? Hell noooo, mabey the man jus needs to get laid. Frustration can make u talk fart!!!!!

Originally posted by jaded
Our higher intelligence (ha ha) seperates us from animals

Cages and bulldozers seperate us from animals

Good:

- consentual adult sex that is enjoyed by all involved when no STD's or unwanted pregnancies come up

Bad:

- child molestation (It is almost as evil as murder as far as I am concerned... It destroys the personality that would have been. I am talking about adults having sex with children. Adult sex with 16 year olds doesn't have the same destructive power, but it is an infringement on the rights of the kid's parents.)

- rape (I am all for torturing justifiably convicted rapists to death.)

- sex that results in STD transfer or unwanted pregnancy (Be very careful and tell your partner(s) when you have an STD.)


Saying that sex itself is either good or bad is like saying that humanity itself is either good or bad. Ghandi and Mother Theresa are good, and Bin Laden and Hussein are bad. The dichotomy is rational. The same goes for sex.

Originally posted by AirRick101
You surprise me with the thread, leo. So unwilling to accept the paradoxes of sex.

Whether or not I accept the paradoxes of Sex, you must admit that I was adequate in being able to discern and then describe them.

It was an essay.

Originally posted by Ex Nine

Sex is Dirty

Only when it's done alone.[/b]

What? You are neurotic too?

You conveniently left out "adultery," UM.

Or yeah, and more creative kinds of sex, like...

And the meaning of "adult" varies quite a bit between cultures and whomever you speak to, doesn't it? I would scarcely say that half the people over 18 on this board are adults.


By the way, the market-cultural meaning of "adult" is laughably ostentatious. Being preoccupied with sex is one of the most childish behaviors I can think of.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
What? You are neurotic too?

How about a romantic.

And a preoccupation with how sex is dirty is still a preoccupation with sex and thus, childish. Grow up, Leo!

Originally posted by jaded
erm..doesnt anyone know that the original purpose of sex is pro-creation? Our higher intelligence (ha ha) seperates us from animals, do u think apes worry about STI's and whether she's too young? Hell noooo, mabey the man jus needs to get laid. Frustration can make u talk fart!!!!!

The problem with the barely educated, is that as soon as something is intellectually beyond them, they suppose it must be irrelevent. It is certainly the type of conclusion that can save one's pride, being preferable to suppose the other person stupid and not one's self. But here we have an instance. We have our correspondant first bring to mind that Sex is for Pro-Creation, soon followed by a lapse of memory which supposes that the Reason for Copulation must be to remove "talk farts". This person couldn't keep the idea of Sex for Procreation in mind for a minute before naturally falling into the Western Cultural Assumption that Sex is primarily Recreational.

But yes, my correspondant does make a good point of how extensively in our Culture Sex is used in order to destract the Public Mind from other things. With Sex receiving the greatest emphasis and priority, nothing else would seem important in contrast.

The Romans used to suppose the Masses could be held in check with "Bread and Circuses". Western Society has built upon that by adding SEX.

But, no, I do not envy those people who cannot lift their intellectual life a degree above their belts. It was a waste for them to be born Human. They could have done all that as Apes.

I spent many years of my life thinking that sleeping with someone was somehow 'dirty'.
I've gradually had my mind changed, and realised that there is nothing more beautiful that i can give to someone i truly love.
You all seem to have forgotten one thing: There is sex, and there is making love. Anyone who has ever been in love or in a really serious relationship will tell you that.
So, it's not dirty. It's only dirty if it's not consentual.
And it's only dirty if two people want it to be... and then it's consentual.
get me?

I just need one clarification:

We are so worried that the victims of pedophilia will be forever damaged with guilt and shame. Well, that hadn’t been a problem for them before they were caught and exposed, was it? What guilt? What shame? Were they not as carefree as little monkeys?[/b]

So are you saying little children that have been molested or raped enjoy it? That it's their fault?
And where did this information come from?

His mind.

Masturbation isn't dirty, but it doesn't finish without a trace of self-pity, does it...

Sex tends to be and naturally is an expression of love. There is no trying to seperate to cojoin them. This is before the complication sets in. But like everything else, it can be used to hurt, right?

Yes, the definition of adult entertainment is so lame, and they don't tell their true description of it "Guaranteed to make you come!" Although it's a bad name for the word "adult", sexy stuff isn't really childish, or else everything we know about puberity is wrong, and delayed. It's...junior highish!

I just reliced recently (this past year) that there is a big diffrance in having sex with someone and makeing love...

the word love rings diffrent to everyone depending on feelings experianced... Love is a word used to express a feeling... But if you think about it you dont realy love any, one person the same way. I am verry lucky to have meny friends that I "love". But it is imposible to define in words my feelings for my individual friends as they are based on what we have experianced together... I belive respect is the seed of love... Out of respect friendship and love can grow. the spectrum of love is unknown and difrent for everyone. You can have sex with somone you have nether respect or love for but it makes it rather dull in my eyes...

Well, it's true. Many things can be an expression of love, like sex, but is never the creator of love in and of itself. The scary thing is blurring the lines, and not knowing one from the other. People often tend to separate and categorize types of love, l ike that for relative, for friends, romantical love, sacrificial...although there are sometimes that even I don't want to segregate the types too much, it makes it seem a big mechanical.

His mind. [/b]

Oh God Rick- I hope you're right.

Leo I don't quite see what you're trying to say... is it that sex must be bad because people are raped? If that is the case, then surely by the same thinking water must be bad because people drown.

Sex as an act isn't bad, rape as an act is.

Originally posted by R. D. Laing

Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

Know what really bugs me out?
Parents who rear their children from infancy to think that any kind of sexual pleasure is some kind of profanity.
Grr...
I've learned something, and it's that when i have children, i'm not hiding sex from them. I want them armed to the teeth with information.
I'm 21, and only just in my first 'serious' relationship. As far as that side of things is concerned (and i haven't gone all the way!) I've found something that is really magical, something that can be given and recieved in equal measure.
Sex isn't dirty.
What's dirty, is misinformation, and misconceptions. They could put you off for life.
One thing i regret.
That i didn't find this sooner. I've wasted a good five years!