Thread: Stop with the Strawmen

*slowly claps*

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Next.

Not that I'm an atheist in the business of 'bashing' other people for their beliefs, but I do categorically have no belief in the existence of God as it is properly defined.

I don't think you're really qualified to say what 'version of God' people in this forum believe in, though. I assume the version of God to which you are referring is the traditional God of Christianity, Judaism, Islaam, etcetera. The fact is that the majority of people believe in this kind of God.

I agree. I don`t like it when people try to tell others what they believe/don`t believe. However, I think it`s the same for many religious who try to tell atheists what they don`t believe, what philosophy they have and what their morals are like etc...

A strawman is when you twist something someone else says to try to give yourself an argument against something/for something the other guy opposes. This usually includes consciously misunderstanding something and/or misquoting.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

A strawman is when you twist something someone else says to try to give yourself an argument against something/for something the other guy opposes. This usually includes consciously misunderstanding something and/or misquoting.

Yep, imposing what others believe/doesn`t believe on someone is a straw man, because you would be debating against something the other person doesn`t believe.

Originally Posted by JustSoSick

Yep, imposing what others believe/doesn`t believe on someone is a straw man, because you would be debating against something the other person doesn`t believe.

No, that's just being an intolerant dick. Strawmen are completely different.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

No, that's just being an intolerant dick. Strawmen are completely different.

Ok, forgive me if I`m wrong, but if I say you believe in deism or a deity and say that`s illogical because of X. Wouldn`t that be a straw man?

Originally Posted by Xei

Not that I'm an atheist in the business of 'bashing' other people for their beliefs, but I do categorically have no belief in the existence of God as it is properly defined.

I don't think you're really qualified to say what 'version of God' people in this forum believe in, though. I assume the version of God to which you are referring is the traditional God of Christianity, Judaism, Islaam, etcetera. The fact is that the majority of people believe in this kind of God.

Maybe out in the wide world, but not here. I have seen nobody argue for the judeo-christian god in months and only 4 or 5 members in all the years I've been coming to this forum. You're picking an easy and undefended target.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Very few people in this forum believe in the version of God that the atheists in this forum constantly bash over and over again. You're beating a dead horse, nobody cares. If you want to make an argument against God, start with the esoteric philosophies the members of this forum actually DO hold to be true.

Thank you good day.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by JustSoSick

Ok, forgive me if I`m wrong, but if I say you believe in deism or a deity and say that`s illogical because of X. Wouldn`t that be a straw man?

No.

This is a strawman:

Person 1: "I believe that there is a god and he created the universe"
Person 2: "So wait; you believe that some magic man with superpowers who just happened to have existed forever poofed the universe into existence? What?"

The second statement is a strawman.

Argue against what is presented.

If an atheist wants to start a thread against the typical "God" allow them. But don't bother replying if its not the god you subscribe to.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

No.

This is a strawman:

Person 1: "I believe that there is a god and he created the universe"
Person 2: "So wait; you believe that some magic man with superpowers who just happened to have existed forever poofed the universe into existence? What?"

The second statement is a strawman.

Ok, yes I know that kind, but I also thought if there is a deist, and someone said: Well, but your christian, magic father in the sky is idiotic. Would be a straw man.

Originally Posted by JustSoSick

Ok, yes I know that kind, but I also thought if there is a deist, and someone said: Well, but your christian, magic father in the sky is idiotic. Would be a straw man.

Well yeah, but that's also being an idiot.

Originally Posted by Omicron

Argue against what is presented.

If an atheist wants to start a thread against the typical "God" allow them. But don't bother replying if its not the god you subscribe to.

Yes, thats what I thought too. If you present yourself as having a certain religious belief/non-belief, and someone is arguing against something you don`t believe. That`s a straw man?

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Well yeah, but that's also being an idiot.

Well, yes, straw men are idiotic. Mostly.

Originally Posted by JustSoSick

Yes, thats what I thought too. If you present yourself as having a certain religious belief/non-belief, and someone is arguing against something you don`t believe. That`s a straw man?

I suppose it depends.


If they knowingly make you out to have said something you didn't, I suppose thats straw man.

But If theyre just randomly arguing stuff, I think its more dubious.

Originally Posted by Omicron

Argue against what is presented.

If an atheist wants to start a thread against the typical "God" allow them. But don't bother replying if its not the god you subscribe to.

This I agree with.

No Atheist has been seen sticking beliefs on anyone. If you want your special version of god to be criticized you have to state it first.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

This I agree with.

No Atheist has been seen sticking beliefs on anyone. If you want your special version of god to be criticized you have to state it first.

This, I agree wif.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Very few people in this forum believe in the version of God that the atheists in this forum constantly bash over and over again. You're beating a dead horse, nobody cares. If you want to make an argument against God, start with the esoteric philosophies the members of this forum actually DO hold to be true.

Thank you good day.

When someone does state their ideas, the same argument is being used, usually involving the giant spaghetti monster or something to that effect. This is not a conscious misunderstanding, it's a reaction against esoteric philosophy in general. It's an advocation of a dead universe that popped into existence randomly. The spiritualists on this forum typically argue against that, and so a bunch of other beliefs of flung upon them as if it's impossible for someone to think practically if they see the universe as a living organism.

There's no listening involved in the counter arguments, it's as if you can disclaim one esoteric philosophy, the judeo-christian God, you disclaim esoteric philosophy in general. This is not the case. I'm only asking for people to listen first, respond after, instead of reading long enough until it smells like "new age bullshit" and then using the exact same approach to discredit it as anything else.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

When someone does state their ideas, the same argument is being used, usually involving the giant spaghetti monster or something to that effect. This is not a conscious misunderstanding, it's a reaction against esoteric philosophy in general. It's an advocation of a dead universe that popped into existence randomly. The spiritualists on this forum typically argue against that, and so a bunch of other beliefs of flung upon them as if it's impossible for someone to think practically if they see the universe as a living organism.

Problem is, that isn't an analogy for a lot these ideas, they actually do think the universe is a living organism :-/

The problem is, you have no idea what that means, so you jump to the conclusion that they believe in the judeo-christan god.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

The problem is, you have no idea what that means, so you jump to the conclusion that they believe in the judeo-christan god.

Er, no I don't.

I think it means they think the universe is a alive. I.e. an organism.

Yeah, and so your next argument is what, "Well why doesn't it eat other universes when it's hungry?"

The concept of "alive" is very different from the standpoint of the people making this claim.

If you'd like, later on when I can gather my thoughts I'll make a thread detailing my claim, but you actually have to listen to it and give me the benefit of the doubt as someone who came upon this conclusion through research and practical contemplation, not through faith.