Thread: That's it, I'm done

having some sort of belief is a good thing. But I think most organized religions are way outdated and should go. Not that I don't like any of them, but I prefer to have come up with my own beliefs and not have to learn what someone before me had believed and be expected to come to the same crazy conclusions as them. They had the right idea with trying to get people to be kind and overall better people, but there's a lot of extra baggage that un-necessarily comes along with that message. While I do agree with the idea that everyone should try to be better people, I don't agree with all the random shit.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

having some sort of belief is a good thing. But I think most organized religions are way outdated and should go. Not that I don't like any of them, but I prefer to have come up with my own beliefs and not have to learn what someone before me had believed and be expected to come to the same crazy conclusions as them. They had the right idea with trying to get people to be kind and overall better people, but there's a lot of extra baggage that un-necessarily comes along with that message. While I do agree with the idea that everyone should try to be better people, I don't agree with all the random shit.

Come up with your own beliefs based on what? Correct me if I'm wrong but you sound like George Carlin when he said he worships the sun and prays to Joe Pesci. Are you talking about just making up something and then believing it?

Do you have faith in science?

Originally Posted by really

Do you have faith in science?

Screwing around with the definition of faith is a very old trick. Science has evidence. Period.

1. I can't really take the blog seriously because of the language. therefore I can not take the death threats that he is talking about seriously as well. angry resentful people exaggerate and blow things out of proportion.

2. most churches, especially catholic churches will actually ask that only believers come up to receive the body of christ - since there are always a few christians in the church who don't agree with the catholic view regarding the body of christ *symbolic versus literal*

3. you don't believe, you've no business coming up. period. it wasn't the cracker being stolen, so much as a total disrespect in a ritual that is meant for only a catholic to participate in. the ritual I repeat, is not open to non-believers. the church is, the ritual is not.

4. church on a whole is a place for believers, and believers in the church. it's meant to be a safe happy little spot for church-based family. it's like inviting someone you trust into your home, only to have them take something of sentimental value from you without permission. or rather, what if you started an atheist only club only to discover a XIAN within your group =b and then the XIAN disobeys your rules

5. whether or not the angry people realize it, what really made them angry was the lie of being a believer, and being entrusted with something meant for only believers. its like entrusting a secret to whom you thought was a friend, only to have them say it to everyone behind your back. it was trust and disrespect of that trust that made them angry.

6. I am actually not catholic. And there are very few people who are more against dogmatic rituals as I am. HOWEVER, when in the walls of a religious place, it is like coming into someone elses home. you are a guest there, you need to show some respect. you don't want to show respect, be an adult and don't bloody go. I don't. I don't go. perrriooood.

7. the only people who have any real right to make a scene at church, are christians who are challenging the church. in this matter, it becomes a protest and a statement. Just as it is, that only the people of a specific country can really protest against their own government. What does a foreigners words mean, if no one in the country cares?

8. how weak is a statement at church from a non-believer. your actions and protest would mean NOTHING. and would only be counter-production. look at how mean the atheists are children? look at how the people who are going to hell behave? do you really think the actions of a non-believer at church can change anything?

9. if your aim isn't change, then you are just angry, bitter and resentful. get over what ever issue you have with church and move on with your pity life.

10. if you are wanting to see changes as a non-believer, you need to understand your only arena to challenge church is outside of its walls.


the point that I am trying to make is, your view point, and the view point of the blogger is wrong. it is not that someone does not believe in the 'cracker' that made them angry. most christian churches last I checked do not agree with the catholic church regarding the literacy of the bread being Christ's body. this does not make anyone so angry they need to make death threats.

and again, there are always such christians at catholic masses, because of marriages and such forth to non catholics.

trust and respect belong to the ego. do I believe that someone was pissed enough to make a death threat? someones ego trust and respect being slapped in the face has made people angry beyond belief. I am not justifying the behavior. again, only explaining the behavior stems from human ego, NOT FAITH.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Screwing around with the definition of faith is a very old trick. Science has evidence. Period.

I haven't tricked you, and you haven't answered my question.

I Agree that the death threats probably were an over-exaggeration. But if you read the articles he linked too (all of them) you will see direct quotes from Bill Donahue and other Catholics. It's the CRACKER they were worried about. They just wanted the CRACKER back. It's insane. Also, the kid who took the cracker was a Catholic and had no intentions to desecrate it.

Really - Faith is belief without evidence, so no, I do not have faith in science.

Originally Posted by really

Do you have faith in science?

You don't put faith in Science, you put knowledge into it and gain more knowledge from it. Evidence is what makes Science tick.

The reaction is obviously overblown, but what the kid did was also malicious and unethical. It's a sacrement, regardless of whether it's made of wheat flour or solid gold. The item's lack of value as anything but a sacrament only underscores that the act was malicious in nature.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Really - Faith is belief without evidence, so no, I do not have faith in science.

'Confidence without proof' might come closer. Faith is a relationship of trust, with a teacher/savior/deity, a body of teachings, and a community of believers. The faithful see evidence of both the truth and value of their faith every day, but there can be no proof.

Science and faith are like oil and water... one provides energy and power, the other provides relief and life. Since ancient ages, men have sought meaning and design, and still do, mind you. Empiricism construes structure, while intuition expounds purpose; one does not go without the other in human society. To ignore the question of origin and deny a higher cause for the sake of logical consistency is madness.

Though you may disagree viciously, I feel - as many others do - that one of the struggles we face in life is to find a balance between religion and science: between the objective and the subjective.

Religion is not an aging institution, but rather one that expands and evolves with time. Still, the majority of all people on earth practice religion in one form or another... and not as jihadists, bible-beaters, or general lunatics, but as normal human beings. If you ask me, atheism takes just as much faith as religion.

To walk through such an amazing world, full of intricate detail and delicate beauty, all performing in such perfect harmony and say it all began by accident is sheer lunacy. Do puzzles assemble themselves? Do skyscrappers form from volcanic rubble? Can a symphony be heard in the cacophonous crash of a firing cannon?

No.

There is a designer... religion is our human way of understanding that.

You will undoubtedly say the religious are "narrow-minded" and such (and some truly are) but the overly-scientific are on the other end of the spectrum. Belief and objectivity are not two football teams in a mad game of head-on-head competition, but rather two elemental ideologies that don't necessarily have to collide.

Religion and science can peacefully coincide. When you sloppily dismiss religion, you stoop to the same level as the scathing religious fundamentalists you hate.

Originally Posted by bcomp

Science and faith are like oil and water... one provides energy and power, the other provides relief and life. Since ancient ages, men have sought meaning and design, and still do, mind you. Empiricism construes structure, while intuition expounds purpose; one does not go without the other in human society. To ignore the question of origin and deny a higher cause for the sake of logical consistency is madness.

Though you may disagree viciously, I feel - as many others do - that one of the struggles we face in life is to find a balance between religion and science: between the objective and the subjective.

Religion is not an aging institution, but rather one that expands and evolves with time. Still, the majority of all people on earth practice religion in one form or another... and not as jihadists, bible-beaters, or general lunatics, but as normal human beings. If you ask me, atheism takes just as much faith as religion.

To walk through such an amazing world, full of intricate detail and delicate beauty, all performing in such perfect harmony and say it all began by accident is sheer lunacy. Do puzzles assemble themselves? Do skyscrappers form from volcanic rubble? Can a symphony be heard in the cacophonous crash of a firing cannon?

No.

There is a designer... religion is our human way of understanding that.

You will undoubtedly say the religious are "narrow-minded" and such (and some truly are) but the overly-scientific are on the other end of the spectrum. Belief and objectivity are not two football teams in a mad game of head-on-head competition, but rather two elemental ideologies that don't necessarily have to collide.

Religion and science can peacefully coincide. When you sloppily dismiss religion, you stoop to the same level as the scathing religious fundamentalists you hate.

Atheism requiring faith? No it doesn't... and that in itself depends on the position you take with Atheism. You have gnostic atheists (disbelieve in gods and say there's evidence to prove such assertions) and agnostic atheists (disbelieve in deities and assert there is no evidence either way to prove or disprove deities). Scepticism is not equivalent to faith, so please don't mistake it for faith.


A great vid detailing why Atheism is not faith-based.

Also, design? Oh by Longcat, don't get me started. Look up some things on evolution and abiogenesis before you assert the whole design thing:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cdk007
http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa
http://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2
http://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t
http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54

And that's just Youtube channels specialised in promoting a better understanding of the science behind Evolution and occasionally on Abiogenesis.

I would argue more deeply into this, but I have work to do.

Originally Posted by really

Do you have faith in science?

Define "faith".

I call for Barbara Streisand effect!

Go to your local church and steal crackers. We can't let evil fascist assholes get whiny about it. Steal all the crackers and at some point they will have to surrender and accept that stealing crackers is a human right.

Go go go go Barbara Streisand.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Come up with your own beliefs based on what? Correct me if I'm wrong but you sound like George Carlin when he said he worships the sun and prays to Joe Pesci. Are you talking about just making up something and then believing it?

You know what i hate about atheists most of all? They are all bashing christianity, muslims, islams....Major religions.

Do you not understand there are people who believe in evolution and science that also believe in a higher power?

Science in a way proves god in my opinion. The god i believe in is a God of just pure engergy, all knowning all powerful energy.

Another thing about atheist i do not like is, they dont understand that hey maybe when we do die nothin happens but that does not mean "god" didnt give us this chance to live.

Athiest always ask " if god is so great, why does he let bad stuff happen to good people?" My answer, shit happens in life we can not control. If only good things happened...this would be heaven. Lessons have to be learned some way.

I think to myself everyday, there has got to be more than us just randomly poppin up in a body and living the lives we live, there is no way that is true IMO

Originally Posted by Bosco

You know what i hate about atheists most of all? They are all bashing christianity, muslims, islams....Major religions.

Do you not understand there are people who believe in evolution and science that also believe in a higher power?

Science in a way proves god in my opinion. The god i believe in is a God of just pure engergy, all knowning all powerful energy.

Another thing about atheist i do not like is, they dont understand that hey maybe when we do die nothin happens but that does not mean "god" didnt give us this chance to live.

Athiest always ask " if god is so great, why does he let bad stuff happen to good people?" My answer, shit happens in life we can not control. If only good things happened...this would be heaven. Lessons have to be learned some way.

I think to myself everyday, there has got to be more than us just randomly poppin up in a body and living the lives we live, there is no way that is true IMO

Bosco - Okay, it's fine that you believe that. Now where's your evidence?

Bcomp - Please don't spout ignorance where it has already been refuted time and time again. Do puzzles assemble themselves??? Are you joking? This only shows that you have no proper understanding of the scientific theories that explain the natural world. Please do watch bluefinger's links, especially cdk007, then come back and talk about "puzzles assembling themselves."

Beliefs may be precious to people, but they are just that, beliefs. I can believe that I have a diamond the size of a boulder buried in my backyard. It makes me feel great, makes me enjoy life more because I know one day I'll reap the reward of it. But that doesn't make it true. (Sam Harris' analogy).

Originally Posted by Bosco

You know what i hate about atheists most of all? They are all bashing christianity, muslims, islams....Major religions.

Do you not understand there are people who believe in evolution and science that also believe in a higher power?

Science in a way proves god in my opinion. The god i believe in is a God of just pure engergy, all knowning all powerful energy.

Another thing about atheist i do not like is, they dont understand that hey maybe when we do die nothin happens but that does not mean "god" didnt give us this chance to live.

Athiest always ask " if god is so great, why does he let bad stuff happen to good people?" My answer, shit happens in life we can not control. If only good things happened...this would be heaven. Lessons have to be learned some way.

I think to myself everyday, there has got to be more than us just randomly poppin up in a body and living the lives we live, there is no way that is true IMO

Science makes no claims on the existence of deities, whether for or against. Secondly, you are nearly just as much as an atheist as the rest of us are. You disbelieve in gods like Thor, Osiris, Mithras, Zeus, etc, no? Well then, the only difference between you and me is that I simply take it further and exclude that one god you still believe in.

Originally Posted by Bosco

I think to myself everyday, there has got to be more than us just randomly poppin up in a body and living the lives we live, there is no way that is true IMO

Assuming the standard use of the acronym, IMO="In my opinion..."

I don't understand having an "opinion" over whether or not there is a God, or "more to life," etc... I believe the word you were looking for was "guess."

This is exactly why fark.com has a florida tag.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Bosco - Okay, it's fine that you believe that. Now where's your evidence?

<-------
Need I say more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A

Originally Posted by Bosco

You know what i hate about atheists most of all? They are all bashing christianity, muslims, islams....Major religions.

And why exactly is that bad?
Do you know why we bash those major religions? Because they're major. An awful lot of people believe in them, and therefore we get into contact with them a lot.

Originally Posted by Bosco

Do you not understand there are people who believe in evolution and science that also believe in a higher power?

I don't care... No matter how much evolutionists believe in God, it still doesn't make it true. If they have evidence for this god, then and only then will their opinion on God matter. Even then it'll be debatable.

Originally Posted by Bosco

The god i believe in is a God of just pure engergy, all knowning all powerful energy.

How does science prove this God of just pure energy?

Originally Posted by Bosco

I think to myself everyday, there has got to be more than us just randomly poppin up in a body and living the lives we live, there is no way that is true IMO

Question: Isn't that just wishful thinking? You know... It might be good and all, having some kind of loving god that wished everything into existant. Hell, even I would see how great that'd be. But no matter how much I'd wish for it, it still wouldn't be true.

No matter how comforting or nice an idea might be, it still wouldn't be true. Just think about Santa Claus. The idea's nice and all, but he just doesn't exist.

So it (still) all comes down to evidence: to prove something or someone exists, there must be evidence for it. You show me evidence for God, and then you can rant about us pesky atheists, mmkay?

Originally Posted by Bosco

Another thing about atheist i do not like is, they dont understand that hey maybe when we do die nothin happens but that does not mean "god" didnt give us this chance to live.

God didn't give me this life... My PARENTS did. And of course, again: what prove do you have that God gave us this life? We scientists actually have a few perfectly natural hypotheses which are called 'abiogenesis' which explains the origin of life.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Come up with your own beliefs based on what? Correct me if I'm wrong but you sound like George Carlin when he said he worships the sun and prays to Joe Pesci. Are you talking about just making up something and then believing it?

I believe that there is a God in everything and that it is all connected somehow. However, I also believe that this "God" doesn't sit up in heaven and decide the fate of our world with miracles and disasters. I think we bring shit upon ourselves. We have the power to make the world a better place, and we shouldn't leave it up to some "God" to do it for us. We also have the power to make the world a shittier place, which a lot of people seem to enjoy doing currently. Basically, I just think that life is too awesome for there not to be something else out there, some higher power, that I call "God" Although God might be a bad name for it now that I think about it. But to me, what I call it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

I believe that there is a God in everything and that it is all connected somehow. However, I also believe that this "God" doesn't sit up in heaven and decide the fate of our world with miracles and disasters. I think we bring shit upon ourselves. We have the power to make the world a better place, and we shouldn't leave it up to some "God" to do it for us. We also have the power to make the world a shittier place, which a lot of people seem to enjoy doing currently. Basically, I just think that life is too awesome for there not to be something else out there, some higher power, that I call "God" Although God might be a bad name for it now that I think about it. But to me, what I call it doesn't matter.

Summary: Pantheism, or a variant of.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Summary: Pantheism, or a variant of.

So there is a name for it kind of. I guess I'm not alone

God didn't give me this life... My PARENTS did. And of course, again: what prove do you have that God gave us this life? We scientists actually have a few perfectly natural hypotheses which are called 'abiogenesis' which explains the origin of life.

Dude, science explains all of gods mysteries. You may call it abiogenesis...thats cool, that does perfectly explain how everything started.......WTF started that.
If you cant look up at the sky and be simply amazed at the sun, moon, stars everything and you just think there is a natural hypotheses for why all life came to be, you need to get a life.

Do not believe main stream relighions if thats not your thing, find spritiuality in yourself. Once you come to the realization that there is something greater than what we know and that science is just the way to somewhat explain it then maybe you will understand