Thread: The True Purpose of R/S.

Originally Posted by psychology student

However, in reality it seems to be a section of the forum where religion, and religious persons are simply mauled, because of their personal beliefs.

By mauled do you mean questioned to the point that their belief systems just dont make sense anymore?

i think this is a misrepresentation of this forum.


many debates are carried nicely and civily. but certain players, you included will come and join debates with very small personal comments which grow into the all out flame wars people find here.

Originally Posted by RooJ

By mauled do you mean questioned to the point that their belief systems just dont make sense anymore?

oh, and this, yeah.

Originally Posted by RooJ

By mauled do you mean questioned to the point that their belief systems just dont make sense anymore?

Partially.

Originally Posted by Omicron

i think this is a misrepresentation of this forum.

No its not, 95% of threads are not about the internal facets of religion and spirituality, but about the scientific and social viability of of them. (Its like being on "Question Time" and rather than debating politics, debating the credibility and effectiveness of political debates in their ability to create political change. Or whether audiences in political debates are a good thing?)

Originally Posted by RooJ

many debates are carried nicely and civily. but certain players, you included will come and join debates with very small personal comments which grow into the all out flame wars people find here.

Really, you sure have alot of insight into this forum, and into me.
Do you believe in reincarnation Omicron?

It goes along the lines of this:

1. Reasonable question, reasonable discussion...
2. Asshole comes along and makes a ridiculous statement of some kind
3. Like moths to a flame, people become incensed by the absurdity of comment, and thus enter the flame war.
4. ???
5. PROFIT

Or you simply cut out the first step completely if the ridiculous statement is the OP. This what you'll see in any forum though, not just R/S...

Now flame me bitches, I dare you.

There.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Do you believe in reincarnation Omicron?

i dont believe in it right now, no.

Originally Posted by Marvo

There.

Yeah, but it shouldn't be like that.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Yeah, but it shouldn't be like that.

But it's gonna be like that anyway, since that pic applies to every single thing on the web. Name a topic, and by Longcat, there has been a flame war about it.

As long as opinions and anonymity on the intarwebs exist, you will have clashes and flame wars. Get over it... SRSLY |:

Originally Posted by psychology student

However, in reality it seems to be a section of the forum where religion, and religious persons are simply mauled, because of their personal beliefs.

I have seen people go overboard with that, and I don't agree with doing it, but there is something you need to understand. It gets very frustrating debating somebody who dodges questions repeatedly, ignores your best points, and then tells you that your whole belief system is based on faith. Knocking off that stuff is something the theist folks can do while the atheists work on acting right.

Originally Posted by psychology student

If"Your gonna vote for Barack Obama, don't you read you asshat, what were you born yesterday, everyone knows he is inexperienced. I'm not even gonna talk to this idiot anymore because he's like a brick wall".

Uh, other way around, bud. There are about three people here who would not vote for Barack Obama, and anything I have ever said on any kind of personal level like that was in retaliation to extreme personal insults or else repeated refusal to respond to any details of my posts. When somebody, five times in a row, responds to me as if I said nothing more than, "Blah blah blah blah blah Obama sucks," when really I went into major detail about how dangerous of a situation an Obama presidency would be, I am going to call them out on it. When people tell me I only watch Fox News or am blindly patriotic, both of which are just flat out false statements, I am going to have something a little unfaborable to point out about that person too.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

But it's gonna be like that anyway, since that pic applies to every single thing on the web. Name a topic, and by Longcat, there has been a flame war about it.

As long as opinions and anonymity on the intarwebs exist, you will have clashes and flame wars. Get over it... SRSLY |:

It doesn't really happen in any other section on this forum, except extended discussion. Why should it happen here, to the extent that it does. Ban R/S I say.

You notice that the people on the other side of the argument, whether agnostic, atheist, w/e, never complain about this.

And the winners are. . .

us

Originally Posted by psychology student

It doesn't really happen in any other section on this forum, except extended discussion. Why should it happen here, to the extent that it does. Ban R/S I say.

You might as well ban the internet, and you know that's not gonna happen any time soon.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have seen people go overboard with that, and I don't agree with doing it, but there is something you need to understand. It gets very frustrating debating somebody who dodges questions repeatedly, ignores your best points, and then tells you that your whole belief system is based on faith. Knocking off that stuff is something the theist folks can do while the atheists work on acting right.

Yeah, but you missed part of my point. The R/S section should not consist solely of people attacking, criticisning, pointing out the faults with religion, which it de facto does most of the time.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Uh, other way around, bud. There are about three people here who would not vote for Barack Obama, and anything I have ever said on any kind of personal level like that was in retaliation to extreme personal insults or else repeated refusal to respond to any details of my posts. When somebody, five times in a row, responds to me as if I said nothing more than, "Blah blah blah blah blah Obama sucks," when really I went into major detail about how dangerous of a situation an Obama presidency would be, I am going to call them out on it.

I didn't mean that as a unique example, just an example. The point I was trying to make is people telling others what to do, that their choices are wrong because yada, yada yada [insert supposedly scientific article here].

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

You notice that the people on the other side of the argument, whether agnostic, atheist, w/e, never complain about this.

And the winners are. . .

us

It is not solely a religious criticism. Its also about ad hominem/uncalled-for-criticism against atheism. I remember that there was, semi-recently, a "100 good things about atheism" thread: where I and others took it over with ironic attacks on atheism; its wrong because we attacked/criticised atheism in an atheist per se thread.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

You might as well ban the internet, and you know that's not gonna happen any time soon.

Look in any other section of this forum; you will notice that the same levels of hostility and flaming do not occur to the same extent that they do here.

Also, as someone insightfully pointed out, it leads to feuds (that initiate in R/S) to spill out into the rest of the forum. For example Seismosaur always attacks me outside R/S. Occasionally, I attack him as well. Its just not helpful.

I see your point, PS, but I think that it is the way people like it. If someone posted a real religious question, I bet people would respond appropriately. From what I see, most of the questions in the R/S section are almost challenges to start an atheist/ theist debate.

I think part of the problem is, atheists don't really understand how to discuss religion, because they don't believe in it. I always have this problem around the holidays, discussing religion with my parents. They are christian, and I am not, but I love talking about religion, and I love religious history. They will start talking about bible verses, interpretations of scripture, definitions of morality, and things like that. I could care less about this, because I am arguing the historical inaccuracy of the bible. They are busy trying to defend their thesis, while I am arguing that their sources are bad.

How do you discuss religion with people who don't believe in it in the first place? You end up at the most basic level, which is the existence of god, and the basic nature of religion. We have lots of people from lots of religious backgrounds, so it is hard to get a specific debate going. Put an atheist, a buddhist, and a christian in a room together and ask them to discuss religion? What common ground would they settle on to discuss?

I do agree that there's no reason for it to get nasty. It's a hot subject that people have a lot of emotion invested in. That emotion is going to bust out eventually, no matter how polite people try to be.

The fact is that, in a way, everyone craves for conflict. Subconsciously we come here because this forum is much more "dynamic" than the others.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I see your point, PS, but I think that it is the way people like it. If someone posted a real religious question, I bet people would respond appropriately. From what I see, most of the questions in the R/S section are almost challenges to start an atheist/ theist debate.

I think part of the problem is, atheists don't really understand how to discuss religion, because they don't believe in it. I always have this problem around the holidays, discussing religion with my parents. They are christian, and I am not, but I love talking about religion, and I love religious history. They will start talking about bible verses, interpretations of scripture, definitions of morality, and things like that. I could care less about this, because I am arguing the historical inaccuracy of the bible. They are busy trying to defend their thesis, while I am arguing that their sources are bad.

How do you discuss religion with people who don't believe in it in the first place? You end up at the most basic level, which is the existence of god, and the basic nature of religion. We have lots of people from lots of religious backgrounds, so it is hard to get a specific debate going. Put an atheist, a buddhist, and a christian in a room together and ask them to discuss religion? What common ground would they settle on to discuss?

I do agree that there's no reason for it to get nasty. It's a hot subject that people have a lot of emotion invested in. That emotion is going to bust out eventually, no matter how polite people try to be.

What do you think is the end result of debating in this forum? What does it achieve in your opinion.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

The fact is that, in a way, everyone craves for conflict. Subconsciously we come here because this forum is much more "dynamic" than the others.

Thats my point, this forum is substantially more hostile than any other.

Not more than the meta forum.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Not more than the meta forum.

Just as much. Also the meta forum is only bad at banning season, or in protest at specific events. R/S is bad all the time.

Originally Posted by psychology student

What do you think is the end result of debating in this forum? What does it achieve in your opinion.

I think that people like to be hear other ideas, even if they don't admit it. They may seem like they are not listening, but they will remember the debate on some level. I think that the more people are exposed to other viewpoints, the better. Even if it is in a debate, or 'hot' environment. I know that I will defend my position vehemently during a debate, but as soon as I am lying in bed that night, I will go over it in my head and say, "You know, she made a good point, maybe I should google that when no one is looking..."

People also just love to jab (argue, jibberjabber ). Religion is something that people feel passionately about and research heavily. If people know a lot about it, and like to talk about it, they are going to want to talk about it, yell about it, curse about it, and vent. Maybe unloading their atheism here can help keep them from unloading a clip on the nuns at their Catholic high school

But don't you think that after a period on the R/S section there is a limit to what you can learn from others (as you explained in your first paragraph), and what remains is just repetitive bashing.

Sadly, yes. At that point, it just becomes a good old fashioned stoning.

Originally Posted by psychology student

But don't you think that after a period on the R/S section there is a limit to what you can learn from others (as you explained in your first paragraph), and what remains is just repetitive bashing.

I think I am still learning, just not as much as I was when I first started using this forum.