Thread: Datura and the Dream

It is not so unforgiving at all at doses of 3 to 5 seeds. in fact hardily noticable. Only the DreamEffects are very noticable. I thought I explained how the low dose would be safe mentally and physically. Can't you read?

Now with those effects barely noticable I intend to ingest something else with known oneirogenic effects with it. Also in doses so low I won't or hardily will feel it's effects while awake. The intent is to create effects profoundly stimulant uppon dreams while hardily or not at all noticable while awake.

Yeh I can read surprisingly. I thought you were talking about normal doses. Anyway I was mainly talking in terms of who knows what adding something else to it will do even in such a small dose. I'm not saying you're an idiot, just speculating.

ive taken datura inoxia twice for the trip.

first time= no success of LD / mild trip

second time= partial succsess of LD / HEAVY trip, see, when i was i the delirus state i knew i was in reality because: i decided to do the rc's right after my first big hallucination, (i was sitting on the toilet [to pee becuase if i stood up i would have fallen over] looking at the fake tile floor,the diamond shaped tiles sourrounded by square cut tiles started to move around in circles and then they started to blink flashing lights of red, yellow, green, purple all in a line, then i watched one of the blinking tiles float up my wall) So i clicked in and rc'd -> passed, im in reality. The whole experience felt like i was looking through my eyelids. (about 3 hours in i started to hallucinate visualy and had been in bed due to lack of motor skills.) So eventualy i somehow managed to put my finger through my palm! so i sit up and do the nose plug test -> passed, in reality.
i do plan on using d. inoxia again for lucid dreaming because this is the first time in my many months of practicing LDing where ive sucessfuly failed a rc.
and
P.S. remember to test out your Datura in tiny doses before u try it for recreational purposes or any other purpose for that matter.

My advice is to not do what Behr has done, cause Behr could have easily died or gone mental permanently. My advice to you Behr is to never take Datura "recreationally" again.
In such dosages, incidentally stronger plant material could contain dosages of tropane alkaloids very able to kill you by cardiac arrest or resperatory failure.

So the fact that you're still alive is the lucky outcome of a gambling bet with your existance/mind in the jackpot.

Not advised. That's why I was thinking of these really low doses(2 to 5 seeds) possibly combined with low doses of other entheogenic/oneirogenic alkaloids; Because no one in the Right mind would really want to take more Datura than that and risk lethal Datura Posioning or Permanent schizophrenia.

Fuck not with this plant. Most of those who took her in Delirious dosages can't tell the Story, because they're 6 feet under or because they permanently speak in tongues.

SKA, telling lies isn't going to stop people from using it. There are numerous people who have taken it in 'delirious dosages' and survived. It won't send you crazy forever although I'm sure it will screw you up quite a bit.
I'm just saying this because the 'drugs send you crazy' approach is what the government uses. I'm yet to hear of any drug that sends you crazy forever even in huge doses.

That being said, it is definitely one of those drugs not to be used for recreation, full stop.

If you have any proof that it can send you crazy however, please provide a link here. I'm just yet to see any proof of such claims.

Originally Posted by tommo

I'm yet to hear of any drug that sends you crazy forever even in huge doses.

I know of one close friend who went on a meth binge ten years ago, had a massive psychotic breakdown, and still to this day cannot function because of the incident.

He is still on anti-psychotics among other things.

I've only met a few people who have wigged out for a couple of years due to heavy hallucinogenic use (LSD mostly). They weren't completely crazy after a couple of years, but they were still not quite right even though they could function.

I do not think datura is really a suitable 'plant ally' though. I'm sure the user will learn things, but it won't be gentle at all unlike many other safer alternatives.

Yeh, meth is just the epitome of stupidity tho.
Whoever made it deserves to be shot.

Definitely you can change after using drugs heavily, some will, some won't, it's not worth the risk to take massive doses of anything. But I don't think you're ever going to be as SKA said 'talking in tongues' for the rest of your life.

I second the 'not a good plant ally' thing for sure.

I haven't told any lies, Tommo I told people my conclusions from reading MANY MANY Erowid-Datura Experiences: That is, if one gets out of a heavy Datura Delirium unscratched mentally or physically, one should consider themselves INCREDIBLY lucky.

Meth is for those that intend to waste themselves, physically and mentally.
Not even saying another word about a degenerating substance such as Meth.

Nevertheless do I reckon that a Tea of 3 ground Datura Seeds and 1 large mushroom, or 2 small mushrooms of the Paneaolus Cyanescens (Hawaiian strain/species of Magic Mushrooms) would be one HELL of a DreamEnhancer that will have little to no effect on daytime consciousness.

Well, you said before that people have been talking in tongues for the rest of their lives and I just don't think that has ever happened. I've never seen any reports of it.

Have you tried the combo before? Tell us when you do if you haven't.
Also probably better to measure in dry weight? Instead of big and small, that can be pretty relative.

For EVERYONE's information. Do not underestimate the Drug Knowledge/Drug Know How of SKA. I have talked with him on many occasions. And do trust me, he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. Having a rather vast and immense knowledge of drugs and their effects I will agree with him.

Datura is a VERY DANGEROUS substance. It is not to be "FUCKED WITH" by wood be noobs. The dosages posted by SKA are in fact within actually I shouldn't say within they are mildy under the reported safe dose range.

Yes MANY MANY MANY MANY people have died. Or are now in a loony-bin because of this substance, you find speaking in tongues improbable? Well I must say when you have lost utterly all touch with reality for a prolonged period of time and have caused irreparable damage to your brain faculties yes you would speak in tongues as well. It is very hard to know exactly how much of it you are getting. So doing less is safe. Don't think doing a bit more will be "alright" chances are it won't.

However despite everything I have said. Datura is in fact quite an interesting substance. It does have very great dream potential. However just be safe with it. If you know about Datura already, than I am sure you have looked up the necessary information and are simply reporting your own personal findings.

Also I don't see why people always say "Don't do it" or "Your stupid" etc. whenever someone says they are going to attempt something. Most people who post topics like this are more often than not experienced. And do not need the advice of the inexperienced. You wouldn't tell a pothead how to smoke pot if you've never done it yourself would you? Indeed you would not. Unless of course you were trying to be a smart ass, but I digress.

Be safe man.

Years ago I tried a little Datura leaf tea(one small leaf, I think). It took a long time to wear off. I had to call in sick the next day as my eyes wouldn't focus and I tended to ramble off in a dream like fugue state that morning. I made some excuse about being sick. It was the following day before I could read again. I didn't recall anything as to dreams so I didn't try it again.

Carlos Casteneda claimed to have used it in his first book. He described an elaborate ritual where he dug up a root, replanted it,then later created a paste using the root and seeds. I remember that he claimed the flowers would make you crazy and the leaves weren't good either. I wonder if there is a difference in alkaloid balance between the different parts the the plant. He also claimed that its after effects caused his muscles to grow and him to feel healthier. On the other hand he was a notorious lier!

I wonder if it might be more useful combined with other things like Choline during the recovery period. Or perhaps Velvet Beans to make the whole experience a bit more vivid.

By itself its it will mostly just screw you up.

TruthHunter

Originally Posted by Brandon Heat

For EVERYONE's information. Do not underestimate the Drug Knowledge/Drug Know How of SKA. I have talked with him on many occasions. And do trust me, he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. Having a rather vast and immense knowledge of drugs and their effects I will agree with him.

Datura is a VERY DANGEROUS substance. It is not to be "FUCKED WITH" by wood be noobs. The dosages posted by SKA are in fact within actually I shouldn't say within they are mildy under the reported safe dose range.

Yes MANY MANY MANY MANY people have died. Or are now in a loony-bin because of this substance, you find speaking in tongues improbable? Well I must say when you have lost utterly all touch with reality for a prolonged period of time and have caused irreparable damage to your brain faculties yes you would speak in tongues as well. It is very hard to know exactly how much of it you are getting. So doing less is safe. Don't think doing a bit more will be "alright" chances are it won't.

However despite everything I have said. Datura is in fact quite an interesting substance. It does have very great dream potential. However just be safe with it. If you know about Datura already, than I am sure you have looked up the necessary information and are simply reporting your own personal findings.

Also I don't see why people always say "Don't do it" or "Your stupid" etc. whenever someone says they are going to attempt something. Most people who post topics like this are more often than not experienced. And do not need the advice of the inexperienced. You wouldn't tell a pothead how to smoke pot if you've never done it yourself would you? Indeed you would not. Unless of course you were trying to be a smart ass, but I digress.

Be safe man.

I know you were telling everyone but I would just like to say I wasn't underestimating his knowledge, I know he's done way more drugs than I have. But I make a habit of getting proper facts and not subjective or word-of-mouth "facts". That is why I doubt that anyone has been permanently damaged by it in a significant way, i.e speaking in tongues.
If you have evidence please post it.

Originally Posted by TruthHunter

I wonder if there is a difference in alkaloid balance between the different parts the the plant. He also claimed that its after effects caused his muscles to grow and him to feel healthier. On the other hand he was a notorious lier!

There is almost always a difference in alkaloid content in different parts of plants. If not always.
LMAO at the muscles thing. Anyone know if that holds any truth?

Originally Posted by tommo

I know you were telling everyone but I would just like to say I wasn't underestimating his knowledge, I know he's done way more drugs than I have. But I make a habit of getting proper facts and not subjective or word-of-mouth "facts". That is why I doubt that anyone has been permanently damaged by it in a significant way, i.e speaking in tongues.
If you have evidence please post it.


There is almost always a difference in alkaloid content in different parts of plants. If not always.
LMAO at the muscles thing. Anyone know if that holds any truth?

The fact that you that you do not understand that he is giving actual "Facts" that have been tried, tested, and proven. He does not spout word-of-mouth facts as you put it.

Trust me, we have both done our fair share of research. I'm not gonna try and go out of my way to prove you wrong. Google can do that for me. If you really want the proof go look for it yourself.

Seriously the way you carry yourself on here is that of ignorance or arrogance take your pick.

Me arrogant? I'm not the one giving so called facts without proof.
If you claim something like that you should provide a case where it has actually happened. If not when I ask you should at least provide it, show me where yu got that information from. Otherwise it just leads to extreme doubt.
BUT since I am not arrogant or ignorant (don't know what ignorance has to do with this BTW, I just assuming you don't know the difference between the two) I will look up the side-effects/contraindications of scopolamine; which I'm pretty sure I have done before which is why I am sceptical.

Here I will help you with vocabulary terms.

Dictionary:
ignorance
(ĭg'nər-əns) pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
n.

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.


Seeing as how you are unaware, and fail to properly inform yourself you fulfill the definition. Also I could even say you are uneducated, but I will not be a smartass like that it's just rude.

Next vocab word the day.

Dictionary:
arrogant
(ăr'ə-gənt) pronunciation

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
adj.

1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak. See synonyms at proud.

It would appear to me however I may be wrong that you seem to be trying to disprove what everyone is saying. Carrying yourself in a higher light than others. This is just what it seems like to me. Perhaps you are simply annoying me.

As for known effects here we go.

Effects of ingestion

Due to the potent combination of anticholinergic substances it contains, Datura intoxication typically produces effects similar to that of an anticholinergic delirium: a complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy (frank delirium, as contrasted to hallucination); hyperthermia; tachycardia; bizarre, and possibly violent behavior; and severe mydriasis with resultant painful photophobia that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly reported effect.

According to the drug information site Erowid, no other substance has received as many "Train Wreck" severely negative experience reports as has Datura[5], noting that "the overwhelming majority of those who describe to us their use of Datura (and to a lesser extent, Belladonna, Brugmansia and Brunfelsia) find their experiences extremely mentally and physically unpleasant and not infrequently physically dangerous."

The full listing of reports can be found at www.erowid.org. Numerous stories of Datura-related deaths and critical illnesses can also be found at the Lycaeum Datura Index here.

http://www.erowid.com <--- if you like to read some reports on the negativity of this.
http://mv.lycaeum.org/mu/datura.html for deaths and tragic incidents.

As a matter of fact, I don't see why I'm pushing so hard.

It is a known "FACT" datura in the right amount produces Delerium, and Psychosis. If you know what the two of these are. The speaking in tongues. Which I begin to question if you know what the means. Basically rambling things that make absolutely no sense. Talking in "Gibberish" if you will is what it means.

Okay Tommo if you insist me to prove with irrefutable facts.. So it goes:

Lowest dose of Datura Seeds I've read of that caused a heavy delirium
(Only 15 seeds): http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=16996

The main Datura Experience list; notice how many reports are in the latter 4 cathegories(Difficult experiences, bad Trips, health problems and Trainwrecks&Tripdisasters)
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura.shtml

And a couple of concrete experiences that indicate why to avoid Datura Delirium:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=17700
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=17137
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=36702
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1825
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=3341
And last but CERTAINLY not least:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=66232

And those 6 experiences are just a minute fraction of the gruwesomely evil Datura experiences with disastrous outcomes. There are MANY Datura induced Deaths(Toxicity, Suicide, Accidents), Hospitalisations, temporary and permanent insanity, leading to temporary and permanent admissions to the Psych Ward and Arrests. Check if you want to but I think my point is proven.

Oh boy that sure sounds like alot of fun doesn't it.
For MindExploratory purposes I'd rather drink a Cup of strong Magic Mushroom Tea(have many times), Peyote Tea(haven't yet) or Ayahuasca Tea(haven't yet). I have snorted Yopo-snuff 3 times, which I would do again some time and I have vaporising pure DiMethyl Tryptamine(DMT) atop of my to-do list. I have done LSD 9 times and would do it again for sure. I have experienced the most religious, excentric, upsetting, worldviewchanging, liberating, humbling, visionairy, enlightening and at times terryfing States of Consciousness using Psychedelics, but.....

I would not use Datura for "traveling deep" For that I'll safely stick to the aforementioned visionairy agents. Can't you see my point? Take it from someone who greatly igmires psychedelics and has traveled very deep using them.

I'm glad I found any kind of Responsible, constructive use for Datura and that is humble humble amounts for DreamEnhancement. And I am content with that. I reckon that at one point in my life I might add perhaps 3 - 5 crushed Datura seeds to a Psychedelic Brew of Mushrooms. I might even at one point make a Brew of Mushrooms, Peyote and a Pinch of Datura (3 to 5 seeds). Just to add a Visionairy and Spiritual touch of Datura to the experience. But that's about as far as I'll ever go. To slightly taint a psychoactive brew with a mere HINT of Datura.
And I will stay safely under the maximum of 5 seeds as the first link of the erowid datura experience reports I posted show that 15 seeds can be enough to induce a fullblown delirium.


Tommo I am not saying this to outsmart you on this subject or to seem more intelligent. Not being a Wise ass if that's what you think.
I have some information that make the fact that you are experimenting with Datura, even if only very slightly, very upsetting. That information tells me you could have easily died or gone permanently psychotic from your experiences and that if you continue them you may still die or go permanently apeshit.

Mate I'm just being concerned and don't want you to die or live in psychotic hell for the rest of your life. I care and so I may sometimes sound as your father. Instead of noticing how someone is telling you what to do and what not to do, notice how someone is being kind by warning you of the dangers you are facing.

Ok first.... Brandon - Ignorance means you lack knowledge, yes. It refers to lack of knowledge in a lot of areas. Fair enough you could say I am ignorant on the topic of one thing, but not just 'ignorant'. Because that's ignorant in itself since you don't know me at all.

It is a known "FACT" datura in the right amount produces Delerium, and Psychosis. If you know what the two of these are. The speaking in tongues. Which I begin to question if you know what the means. Basically rambling things that make absolutely no sense. Talking in "Gibberish" if you will is what it means.

Obviously I know what it means. I am not saying it can't produce these effects I am saying it can't, or rather HASN'T produced it permanently.
There's no point linking me to erowid.org, that's just stupid, at least do what SKA did and show specific reports. Because I know what erowid is and have spent probably all up, days worth looking on there.
Again, I am not denying the fact that it causes delerium.

SKA - I understand what you're trying to do. But just so you know, I am not experimenting with Datura. I have once smoked Brugmansia and it produced no effects I could discern. Except for a brief sort of cold rush over my body and brief anxiety. But no delirium that I noticed although I fell asleep pretty soon after.

The main Datura Experience list; notice how many reports are in the latter 4 cathegories(Difficult experiences, bad Trips, health problems and Trainwrecks&Tripdisasters)

lol, That was the main thing I noticed too when I first came to find out about this plant. I was just like, HOLY shit, it's so unbalanced in the good and bad trips compared to all the other drug vaults.

I didn't read all the reports yet that you posted but that last one was insane. I can understand now what it feels like to be completely psychotic/schizophrenic. That's important information for me because my Auntie recently had her second psychotic breakdown and is in a psych ward. So that gives me a bit of insight into what could be and probably is happening to her.
That trip was like something straight out of a fucked up horror movie, he suddenly comes back into the room and his sitter is gone and the TV is off etc. It makes me feel like it would be possible to go insane from it simply because it makes you question what is real. Like maybe if an unstable or weak-minded (not even necessarily weak minded) person took it and came back they could keep thinking that they are still tripping. Which would be scary to say the least.

So yes, now that I think about it it would probably be possible.

BTW back on the topic of dreaming with it....
I just found this little thing - while I was searching for permanent brain damage cases - that someone wrote.

This drug is freaky. It does help significantly with nausea, but man the side effects! I took it an hour or two before I went to asleep and felt slightly drugged and delusional, but nothing I couldn't handle. Then I had the worst and most realistic nightmare! It was living hell and I could even feel things it was so realistic. I was thrashing about the whole night and my blankets were all over the place and I was hanging onto the side of my bed...scared some people. You don't know what a nightmare is until you take this. Honestly. But the relief it provided me was worth it, so it's up to you. It does help to be well seasoned in the land of psychotic episodes. That would be me. :-)

EDIT: This is just the kind of thing I was trying to stop from happening. Look at this site full of complete bullshit information.
http://www.sobercircle.com/Article.aspx?Article_ID=8
It says a guy ingested 7g of scopolamine.
The video says it takes your free will and you still look completely normal. Obviously that's bullshit, you look like a psycho; in the literal sense of the word.
It also tells the good old urban legend of the guy emptying his own apartment. I heard the exact same thing to a T, except replace 'man' with 'woman' and 'Datura' with 'GHB'.

Well Tommo if you've spent alot of Time reading about Datura on Erowi I really wonder how you came to such a different conclusion than I have.

I've also read Datura Trip reports of people who I would "not exactly"call weakminded. Psychedelic veterans with many many LSD, Mushroom, Peyote, Salvia and even DMT experiences still shat their pants after using datura, said things like"Stay away from it, This plant is brutal, This plant is a personification of the Devil"..etc..and vowed never to take it again.

If veteran Psychonaughts say that, then for me alarmbells start ringing. I usually take all experience reports with a grain of salt, considering the fact that they are Subjective reports. Alot of people report Magic Mushrooms Being EVIL. That hasn't lead me to conclude Mushrooms are evil. I know they have a very Darkside, but in essence are very neutral. Can't say the same for Datura.

My Datura Tea experience, using only HALF a flower of Brugmansia, was enough to "let me know what areal nightmare" was, even if it was so subtle in effects. Darkness came over me, at times exciting, but mostly opressing, evil, sinister. I felt a long episode of Dispair, slight horror/anxiety. As if being in a Dark room where Monstrous dark figures are circling around you and touch you every now and then yet not hurt you. But knowing they CAN hurt you and might tare you appart is what the feeling is like to me.

Like putting my safety/life in the hands of a goulish, terryfying monster and having to accept whatever it's gunna do with you. Disempowered, humbled and opressed, but not in a way I can say I got much Life-wisdom out of the experience.. Only not to do it again. Not even Half a flower. Datura to me = I want my mommy, I've never felt so far away from "home" in such a cold, lonely way.

Have you ever met lady Datura in person? Maybe you should. I met her and she was VERY pursuasive to make me stop trying to interact my consciousness with her's.

Well, I hadn't read AS much on Erowid about Datura as I have about a lot of other drugs. But I did read a fair bit. It was when I was about to try it. So I kind of avoided all the bad trip reports so I didn't overwhelm my mind with that kind of expectation.

I don't think I have that much of a different conclusion. I mean I know it's a scary fucking plant. I've never stated otherwise. But I'm just not sold on the idea that it can create permanent brain damage; although I admit it is theoretically possible given the way it makes you question reality and such.

BTW that one report you showed that said a kid was psychotic for a few years wasn't verified. The note at the top says that Erowid investigates all reports that claim permanent or long term adverse effects and the poster hasn't replied to them yet.

I've also read Datura Trip reports of people who I would "not exactly"call weakminded.

I said "not even necessarily weak minded", meaning having a weak mind would make you more susceptible to a psychotic breakdown or at least a bad trip BUT it doesn't mean that people with strong minds can't also have a bad trip or psychotic breakdown. Sorry if I was a bit vague.

Lol first you told me to not experiment now you are suggesting I try it?
Did you actually 'see' lady datura? Like you see entities on DMT and such? I seem to remember you saying it was just a feeling of her.
Anyway, I don't know, I doubt I will in the near future. The instant bad feeling it gave me the first time kind of made me feel it was warning me off.
I am maybe one of those people some would call weak-minded. I don't think I am mind you but I have a history of Anxiety, Depression and OCD. So yeah, sometimes I think it may make those sort of things worse, especially on these kinds of drugs, whereas Cannabis and Hallucinogens can help.

So yes, maybe after I get all those things sorted out and have a bit more experience I would try Datura. But not for the moment.

Actually I met her in person in a Dream. A dream I had 2 nights after my Low dose(half a flower)Brugmansia tea experience. Not a shady figure, but an old cloaked lady with a cold deadstare in her eyes in full detail.

I posted this dream in this Topic. If you scroll up and down the previous page of this Topic it should be in one of my posts there.

Oh yeah I remember, the bipolar lady lol
Creepy.

In Native American tribes of the southwest, as is often the case with tribes elsewhere, in rites of passage, a young person coming of age would fast and pray for days in order to purify himself. In some cases, the initiate might be isolated or left in the wild alone. At the appropriate time, a Medicine person or tribal spiritual elder that would nominally be called by others than Native Americans, a Shaman, might accompany the initiate to a holy place, possibly a mountain top or cave, and a tea would be made from the roots, leaves and even the seeds from the prickly seed pod of a plant called Sacred Datura. The individual would drink this tea and wait for visions, and the initiate would definitely have visions.

Besides those sacred rites of passage, Datura, which is refered to in some cultures as la Yerba Del Diablo, but known to the Chumash people of California, the Mohave, Yuma, Cahuilla, Zuni and others as toloache from the Aztec toloatizn, "to incline the head" (and the person adminstering the Datura as a tolachero), has been used to hex and to break hexes, to produce sleep and induce dreams, and for protection from evil. It has also been used for Divination, to find one's Totem Animal, to allow one to see ghosts, for communing with birds, for long hunts and strength, for sharper vision, for sorcery and to increase supernatural powers as in Aushadhis, the awakening of the supernormal perceptual states through the use of certain drugs and herbs. Like other tropane-containing plants that have been used historically for so called Flying Ointments, Sacred Datura has been used in certain rituals related to inducing the ability to fly through eating or drinking and sometimes an ointment think witches flying ointments.

Datura is still widely used in the Caribbean for similar or all of the reasons as well, and called there "herbe aux sorciers" (herb of the sorcerers) among the various French speaking islanders. On the English speaking islands, Jamaica for example, those who practice the spellcraft Obeah are also known to incorporate almost interchangeably with Datura another Nightshade herb they call Branched Calalue.

SACRED DATURA: Nightshade Family [Solanaceae] is found in western Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, southern California, Mexico, and the West Indies and grows within an elevation range between sea level and 6,500 feet. The name Datura, its generic name, is from the Hindu Dhatura (dhat=the eternal essence (of God)), which was derived from the Sanskrit name D'hastura.[1] Sacred Datura bloom at night starting early evening and typically closing around noon the following day. They are pollinated by nocturnal visitors, usually sphinx or hawk moths.

The tea from Datura is extremely hallucinogenic. The hallucinogenic effects are reported to be stronger than Peyote, Psyillicibin, or LSD. However, Datura is also very toxic and can cause permanent psychosis. Solanaceous plants such as Sacred Datura contain relatively high concentrations of tropane alkaloids, primarily Atropine, Hyoscyamine, and Scopolamine, the primary alkaloid being Scopolamine. It is apparently Scopolamine that produces the hallucinogenic effects. It induces an intoxication followed by narcosis in which hallucinations occur during the transition state between consciousness and sleep

When Datura is used in a Native American ritual, it is always under the guidance of an individual of certain tribal spritual resolve such as a Medicine person or tribal elder. These experts on the use of the plant know what other plants to add in order to neutralize the harmful effects. They also know how much to adminsister and when and where to pick the plants, such as age, season, time of year, whether under a full moon or no moon at all. Chemical constituents and levels vary greatly from plant to plant, time of year, and from one area to another just generally, but especially so if the plants are obtained through ritual or from a spot known for having special powers like the Sun Dagger site on Fajada Butte in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, holy places of some sort such as Vortexes, or sacred grounds. The plants are very toxic, poisonous and lethal, especially if consumed in quanities unmetered by someone not versed in their safe administration. They can, however, when properly dealt with, produce the end result sought after, and quite adequately so, in the spiritual realm.

Although typically connected with Peyote in the minds of the general public, one of the formost users of Datura was Carlos Castaneda who claimed its use as an apprentice to a Yaqui Indian shaman-sorcerer named Don Juan Matus that is said to have studied under a Diablero.

In that there are a number of species of Datura there is some confusion as to what Datura Castaneda may have used. According to Castaneda in THE TEACHINGS OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge a shaman-sorcerer has an Ally contained in the Datura plants commonly known as jimson weed. Don Juan called that ally by one of the Spanish names of the plant, yerba del diablo (devil's weed) as well as Mescalito, with the ally taking on the form of a sort of plant spirit. According to Don Juan, as he related it to Castaneda, ANY of the species of Datura was the container of the ally. However, the sorcerer had to grow his own patch, not only in the sense that the plants were his private property, but in the sense that they were personally identified with him.

As for the "separate" Daturas, more or less on an official basis --- but not necessarily on a common basis as the names, species and terms are usually intermixed (although it must be said, even plant taxonomist disagree amongst themselves whether D. stramonium and D. inoxia are different species while D. inoxia and D. metaloides are considered alternate names for the same species). Usually, D. stramonium is most often the Datura species refered to as jimson weed, while D. metaloides (also sometimes D. wrightii) is usually applied to Sacred Datura, and D. inoxia is Toloache. Don Juan's own plants belonged to the species inoxia, however there was no correlation between THAT fact and any differences that may have existed between any of the species of Datura accessible to him.

Sanskrit names for Datura include: Dhattura, Dhuttura, Dhaturi, Dhustura, Turi, Dhurta, Dhurtakrita, Devika, Ghantika, Ghantapushpa, Khala, Kahalapushpa, Kalama, Kanaka, Kanakaohaya, Haravallabha, Kitava, Kanthaphala, Karjhunga, Kharadushana, Madanaka, Unmattaka, Madakara, Madana, Mahamohi, Mohana, Purimoha, Matulaka, Matula, Shatha, Mahashatha, Shyama, Shaiva, Shivapriya, Shivashekhara, Savisha, and Matta.

There is a mnemonic device for the physiological effects of datura/atropine intoxication: "blind as a bat, mad as a hatter, red as a beet, hot as hell, dry as a bone, the bowel and bladder lose their tone, and the heart runs alone."

Another rhyme describing its effects is, "Can't see, can't spit, can't pee, can't shit."

Regarding Datura, among the Navajo is the folk admonition, "Eat a little, and go to sleep. Eat some more, and have a dream. Eat some more, and don't wake up

Angel’s Trumpets
Datura inoxia
Family: the Tomato family, Solanaceae.
Also called Devil’s Trumpet, Thorn-apple, Indian apple,
Purple Datura, Garden Datura, Horn-of-Plenty, Chaico Blanco,
Yerba Diablo, David’s Bush, Concombre zombi.

Carlos Castaneda writes of his journey, as a participant, into Yaqui shamanism. In his narrative, this plant is exploited for spiritual/psychoactive purposes. However, its properties as a drug, and the accounts of those who have made the mistake of thinking that this plant is a possible “recreational,” make plain how stark and even brain damaging this plant can become. In the Mexico/Central American portion of its range, criminals have occasionally administered it to victims who can be left deranged or killed by its effects.

The two most prominent toxins associated with Datura inoxia are atropine and scopalomine. The inventory of defensive chemistry also includes hyoscyamine, hyoscine, norscopalomine, and meteloidine. While these are the source of its hallucinatory reputation, they are also a source of dementia, psychosis, heart distress with tachycardia and increase of systolic blood pressure. The main use of angel trumpets in the present day is as an accent plant for the garden or landscape.
Angel’s trumpets can be kept in almost any location, in the lower 48 states, provided it receives full sun for the summer months. It is not recommended for use around children’s play areas because the sweet smelling flowers attract attention and experimentation from small children. A minuscule piece of leaf or flower, eaten by a very young child is a clinical dose. This large and imposing plant has a rather rank, almost stale-popcorn aroma that is irritating to some people

Angel Trumpets are grey-tinted semi-woody bushes of waste places, weed patches, and semi-desert communities. Although perennial, they often die back to ground level after a particularly dry season, and are grown as annuals in colder, more northerly temperate parts of the U.S. They can reach heights of 6 feet (2 meters), and in the last half of the summer produce abundant bright white (sometimes slightly yellow or purple), solitary flowers exceeding 7 inches (18 cm) in diameter. The large leaves are covered with short fuzz that yield a rather blue/gray appearance. Before the flowers open, they are twirled into a spiral. The flowers develop into a slightly elongated, very spiky seedpod (often called Thornapple) about 2” (5 cm) in diameter.

When it comes to the use of drugs and hallucinogens most people associate Carlos Castaneda with Peyote. However, it wasn't Peyote but actually the plant Sacred Datura --- known throughout the desert southwest as jimsonweed --- that played the primary role in his early experiences into other realities --- including, it must be said, his most famous and most oft cited experience where he turned into a crow and flew.

(in) and around the mountains and deserts of Sonora, southern Arizona or New Mexico Don Juan sought out, met and was taught by an isolated, real, albeit, unnamed shaman-sorcerer said to be a diablero. Now, if Don Juan's master teacher was actually a Diablero or thought to be such by tribal kinsmen, a shaman with an evil bent as stated by Castaneda, then, even though originally he might have had ancestoral ties or a blood-line tribal affiliation with either the Yaqui or Yuma, although highly respected and cautiously sought out, he was, like Don Juan himself, most likely a loner or an outcast.

Don Juan was never too fond of what he called Yerba del Diablo, the "devil's weed." In the narrative Don Juan claimed its power was not unlike that of a woman saying:

"She (Datura) is as powerful as the best of allies, but there is something I personally don't like about her. She distorts men. She gives them a taste of power too soon without fortifying their hearts and makes them domineering and unpredictable. She makes them weak in the middle of their great power."

Relatively speaking, Peyote is a much more forgiving drug than Datura --- much easier to understand, use, and administer.

According to Castaneda in the THE TEACHING OF DON JUAN: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, Chapter 3, on September 3, 1961 he and Don Juan Matus collected Datura plants from the field. Taking the plants back to the house Don Juan sat on the floor with his legs crossed and with a round stone mano began working them over on a flat slab which served as a mortar, mashing the root inside a bag. Occasionally he washed the stones in water kept in a small, flat, wooden basin. At the same time, under his breath, in a low, almost silent voice, he he sang a monotonous, nearly unintelligible chant. When he finished mashing the root into a soft pulp he put it in a larger, second wooden basin. He also placed the mortar and the pestle into the same basin, filled the whole thing with water and carried it to a rectangular trough sitting along the base of the back fence. There he told Castaneda the root pulp had to soak all night outside the house so it could catch the night air.
Citing the date September 7, 1961 Castaneda describes what happened next:

When we returned hours later, it was dark. On the bottom of the basin there was a layer of gummy substance. It resembled a batch of half-cooked starch, whitish or light gray. There was perhaps a full teaspoon of it. He took the basin inside the house, and while he put some water on to boil, I picked out pieces of dirt the wind had blown into the silt. He laughed at me.

"That little dirt won't hurt anybody."

When the water was boiling he poured about a cup of it into the basin. It was the same yellowish water he had used before. It dissolved the silt, making a sort of milky substance.

"What kind of water is that, don Juan?"

"Water of fruits and flowers from the canyon."

He emptied the contents of the basin into an old clay mug that looked like a flowerpot. It was still very hot, so he blew on it to cool it. He took a sip and handed me the mug.

"Drink now!" he said.

I took it automatically, and without deliberation drank all the water. It tasted somewhat bitter, although the bitterness was hardly noticeable. What was very outstanding was the pungent odor of the water. It smelled like cockroaches.

Please note that in the September 7, 1961 incident above, the use of Datura was a potion, that is, Castaneda drank a warm tea-like broth. Two years later, during the July 4, 1963 incident wherein Castaneda transformed into a crow and flew, the Datura was no longer a drink or brew but a rubbed on Flying Ointment.

Wow, ok, I just finished reading your first 3 posts and went to reply and there's another 7 or so.
I was going to say don't triple post. But, don't Duodecuple Post please.
What are these other plants the Shamans add?
Also I remember when I took a flower from the tree type of Datura (can't remember what it's called) it also turned into that tar like substance after a few days.

I went ahead and merged your posts for you, DiableroBrujo. Just for clarity