The Lucid Dream Pill

**robroy** · 06-19-2007 07:47 AM

There has been some interest in a dream pill being advertised on the internet.
Here is a little information about the contents of the pill.

Red Spider Lily (Lycoris radiata) extract - Galantamine HBr, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor for improved dream recall and more vivid dreams.
Galantamine 4mg.

Choline - A precursor (required nutrient) to the body's production of the beneficial neurotransmitter acetylcholine. 100mg

Vitamin B5 - A cofactor (helper nutrient) to the body's production of the beneficial neurotransmitter acetylcholine. 50mg

Melatonin - A naturally occurring hormone in the body that promotes restful sleep and REM (dreaming) sleep. 5mg

Spider Lily is known as galanthamine, a natural herbal extract from the bulb of the Lycoris radiata plant, native to China and Japan. Galanthamine naturally boosts dreaming activity, supports memory function and also enhances nicotinic receptor activity, an effect long known to benefit memory and intellectual ability!

Galanthamine is a processed from the Spider Lily, a member of the Dafodil plant.

Galanthamine total synthesis concerns the total synthesis of galanthamine, a drug used for the treatment of mild to moderate Alzheimer’s disease [1].

The natural source of galantamine are certain species of daffodil and because these species are scarce and because the isolation of galanthamine from daffodil is expensive (a 1996 figure specifies 50,000 US dollar per kilogram, the yield from daffodil is 0.1-0.2% dry weight) alternative synthetic sources are under development by means of total synthesis. One recent publication details the enantioselective organic synthesis of galanthamine and also that of morphine from a single precursor.

This information is from the Wikipedia free Encyclopedia, so be suspect of everything you read there. Not all the information contained in this free reference encyclopedia is correct. It turns out that anyone can access this free reference and make their own personal corrections. Professors at Universitys in Indiana discovered that many University students were useing it as a reference book and getting it ALL WRONG! Don't use it. However, in this case about the Spider Lily, the information appears to be generally correct.

Because of the extreme expense of the Spider Lily extract, there is very little
in the pill being advertised. It is hard to say if the dosage of Galantamine is accurate or if there is any in the pill at all. No way to know short of sending some to a lab.

B5...........Pantothenic acid, or vitamin B5 is sometimes called the antistress vitamin and there are indications that it may be helpful in treating depression and anxiety. Some physicians, in fact, will recommend that patients suffering from chronic stress take supplemental doses of pantothenic acid.

What else does Vitamin B5 do? Pantothenic acid is needed to make hormones and healthy red blood cells, convert carbohydrates and fat into energy, aid in the formation of antibodies, and is reputed to be a stamina enhancer.

There is also some evidence that an enzyme converted from Vitamin B5, coenzyme A, is used by the body for detoxification and removal of harmful herbicides, insecticides and drugs.

However, it is important to note that, unlike other B vitamins, pantothenic acid is not added to processed foods. Also, a lot of pantothenic acid is lost when foods are canned, frozen, or processed.

What can happen if you have a B5 pantothenic acid deficiency? Possibly fatigue, difficulty sleeping, headache, nausea, and stomach discomfort as the result of adrenal atrophy. But getting extra B5 is as easy as taking a supplement. Oral B5 supplements usually contain a form of pantothenic acid called calcium pantothenate, and are available in tablets or capsules

Choline..........What is Choline?
Choline is a B-vitamin that not many people recognize, especially since the average American diet supplies plenty of the body’s daily need. This vitamin is often produced by the body from another substance in the American diet, called Lecithin. This nutrient is found in many plant and animal foods, such as eggs, peanuts, soybeans and wheat germ, and also many processed foods that require an emulsifier, such as chocolate, ice-cream, margarine or salad dressing. Lecithin does not always contain choline and the sources that do, only provide about 10-20% of the body’s daily need for choline. Fear not! Choline is plentiful in many foods, such as cabbage, cauliflower, egg yolks, grape juice, liver, peanuts and soybeans.

Melatonin.......Melatonin is a hormone secreted by the pineal gland in the brain.

Melatonin has a rapid, mild sleepiness-inducing effect. Because of this trait, properly timed melatonin supplements may help people adapt to changes in sleep-wake schedules, as may occur after jet travel across many time zones or in shift work. The effectiveness of melatonin for relieving insomnia is uncertain. Many concerns remain about melatonin's safety, especially for
long-term use.

Don't count on melatonin to make you live longer, improve your sex life, cure cancer, or lower your cholesterol. There is little scientific basis for sensational claims for melatonin's health benefits reported recently in the popular press. These claims are based on anecdotal reports ("I tried it and it worked"), animal research - some of it flawed - and pure speculation.

This fact sheet, prepared by the leading organization of scientists working in the field of light treatment and biological rhythms, aims to set the record straight. The answers to the most frequently asked questions about melatonin come from controlled studies of more than 500 people in the past decade. The information contained here should not be used as a substitute for your physician's advice.

How does melatonin work?

The secretion of melatonin follows a daily rhythm governed by the body's master clock. This clock is located in the brain and is synchronized by regular exposure to the 24-hour cycle of darkness and light. Melatonin secretion may serve as a biological time cue.

Although its natural secretion in the body peaks at night, melatonin does not control sleep. If it did, night workers would not be able to sleep in the daytime when melatonin levels are low. Although most people sleep longer and more deeply at night than in the day, melatonin most likely is only one of many factors accounting for the superiority of nighttime sleep.

How much melatonin does the body produce?

Healthy young and middle-aged adults usually secrete about 5 to 25 micrograms of melatonin each night - at least 80 times less than is in the commonly sold 2 milligram (mg.) tablet or capsule. The amount of melatonin the body secretes tends to decline with age, a possible link with an age-related rise in difficulty sleeping
Can melatonin help people fall asleep faster and sleep more soundly?

Melatonin induces sleepiness and lowers body temperature slightly, perhaps a further aid to sleep since temperature normally falls around the time sleep begins.

Several small studies of individuals suggest that some people with trouble falling asleep and/or staying asleep may benefit from taking melatonin at bedtime. However, there have been no large-scale controlled studies as yet. Responses vary considerably between individuals. Again, one should start with the lowest possible dose, and monitor responses and increase doses, if necessary, under a physician's supervision.

People who have trouble falling asleep at a conventional bedtime - often staying awake until 3 a.m. or later - but then sleep well may have a disorder of sleep timing called the delayed sleep phase syndrome. Taking melatonin two hours before their current bedtime may help them fall asleep earlier. They would gradually move back the hour they take melatonin until they reach their desired bedtime.

Other people have the opposite problem. They cannot resist falling asleep earlier than a conventional bedtime: 9:00 p.m., for example. They then may awaken fully alert around 3 a.m. and be unable to fall back to sleep. Some people with this problem, called the advanced sleep phase syndrome, benefit from taking melatonin if they awaken between 2 and 5 a.m.

Persons who are totally blind (lack all light perception) may notice cyclic trouble staying alert during the day and sleeping at night. Because synchrony of daily rhythms ordinarily requires daylight exposure, their melatonin secretion pattern may not be anchored to the normal 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. rest period. In experimental studies, tests of blood, saliva and urine have been used successfully to track the melatonin rhythm, determining when it is in synchrony with the desired bedtime. With this information, blind persons may be advised to take melatonin at bedtime from then on to keep their body rhythms in line. One impressive study of a series of cases of totally blind children with irregular sleep patterns, including daytime sleep, found major improvement when they were given melatonin at bedtime.

People who live in at a northern latitude and/or spend most of their time indoors with little daylight exposure also may suffer from a disturbed sleep/wake rhythm. Elderly persons who live in nursing homes or other institutions may be most susceptible to this problem. Taking melatonin at an appropriate bedtime may help provide stability, but concerns about possible interactions with other medication, especially in the elderly, demand caution. As yet, there have been no studies testing the effect of melatonin in demented elderly persons.

For healthy young adults with normal sleep, there are probably no benefits from taking melatonin, but there may be dangers in long term use.

Insomnia is a symptom of many disorders, including neurological and other medical disorders and psychiatric problems, and requires evaluation by a physician. Melatonin may not be an appropriate treatment.

I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU REGARDING THE LUCID DREAM PILL. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE THERE IS NOTHING IN THE PILL THAT CAN HURT YOU BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY MEDICAL PROBLEMS AND ARE TAKING MEDICATION, YOU SHOULD BE AWAYRE THAT Galanthamine MAY INTERACT OR INHIBIT YOUR MEDICATION FROM WORKING IN THE WAY IT SHOULD. CONTACT YOUR DOCTOR.

The Lucid Dream pill is expensive (see internet advertisement: google + dream pill) so you might want to split up the expense with friends who are also interested in LD and publish your results here on the board.

Good Luck.
Rob

**SKA** · 06-19-2007 05:13 PM

I say it's gibberish. That they would allready go so far as to call it the Lucid Dream Pill. Lucid Dreaming is an ability, not a medically achievable effect.

Most supplements that garantue vivid dreams are no way a 100% reliable. They may be helpfull sometimes, but why would you invest money in a pill that can't garantee a 100% success rate? I know they do garantee but it's a big scam. It's materialising spirituality which simply cannot be done.

Thusfar only the memory to do an RC has led me to become lucid. Never has mugwort, B6, silene capensis or anysuch external medical aids been a reliable lucid dream inducer. It is foolish to state that and even more foolish to believe it.

Lucid Dream Pills are a waste of money made by those who don't know/care about the value of Lucid Dreaming for those who are impatient and gullable.

You don't happen to work at any such companies do you? Advertisement is abuse of these forums.

**dodobird** · 06-20-2007 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by SKA

I say it's gibberish. That they would allready go so far as to call it the Lucid Dream Pill. Lucid Dreaming is an ability, not a medically achievable effect.

Most supplements that garantue vivid dreams are no way a 100% reliable. They may be helpfull sometimes, but why would you invest money in a pill that can't garantee a 100% success rate? I know they do garantee but it's a big scam. It's materialising spirituality which simply cannot be done.

Thusfar only the memory to do an RC has led me to become lucid. Never has mugwort, B6, silene capensis or anysuch external medical aids been a reliable lucid dream inducer. It is foolish to state that and even more foolish to believe it.

Lucid Dream Pills are a waste of money made by those who don't know/care about the value of Lucid Dreaming for those who are impatient and gullable.

You don't happen to work at any such companies do you? Advertisement is abuse of these forums.

SKA, You are making a lot of claims that you cannot prove. Mainly that LD is not a medically achievable effect. LD is too young a subject to be able to say such things with certainty. All you can say is that according to your own experience ( or the experience of others that you know ) the LD pills don't work. You did not even try this pill, how can you criticize it? I don't think that you even know anyone who tried it.
Now I am sure that it doesn't have a 100% success rate, but I don't think that an important consideration when evaluating it as a possible LD aid.

In any case I wouldn't buy this pill, because it's better to buy the individual ingredients and try them. This would be a much better approach because then you can find out the dose that works best for you of each ingredient, and quite possibly discard some of the ingredients.

The main ingredient here is galantamin. galantemin has tons of sides effects so be careful and read about it before you ever consider to try it. galantamin causes an increase of acetyl-cholin. Some researchers believe that an increase of acetyl-cholin triggers REM. This means that it has a very interesting potential in helping you to achieve WILD.

**SKA** · 06-20-2007 05:37 AM

Dodo. I just have seen too much of this so for me it has lost all credibility.
Sure if you can take it, experience the contrairy of what I believe and tell me otherwise: who am I to not believe the truth. But that's tje thing. To TRY it appearantly means to spend alot of money to begin with. That I find rediculous.

In my Idea the Best a pill/herb/supplement can do is making your Dreams more vivid and memorable: the Lucidity part can only come from yourself. So at best this Lucid Dream Pill can make it a bit more easy to pick up on lucidity. They shouldn't call it The Lucid Pill though.

I am as curious as you are to find out how effective it is. I can speak from experience when it comes to B vitamins and Melatonin. I used to take Melatonin for years as a prescription sleep aid: Melatonin is the biggest medical joke lately. If it ever has any effect at all it is Placebo. I'm not the first to state, out of experience, that Melatonin is zero-effective.

1 thing I just dare state, even without experience, is that at least it is most uncredible that any supplement can induce lucidity. Don't get me wrong: I'm not one of thise "pure" wise asses. I am very much interrested in shamanism and especially where Shamanism meets Oneirology. I myself have tried Silene Capensis and Calea Zacatechichi and I am still curious to test the effects of a DreamBean named Enthada Rheedii. It might do some very interrestin g things to my dreams, but Lucidity cannot be induced externally. It comes from the inside. Or do you believe/know otherwise?

**dodobird** · 06-20-2007 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by SKA

Dodo. I just have seen too much of this so for me it has lost all credibility.
Sure if you can take it, experience the contrairy of what I believe and tell me otherwise: who am I to not believe the truth. But that's tje thing. To TRY it appearantly means to spend alot of money to begin with. That I find rediculous.

In my Idea the Best a pill/herb/supplement can do is making your Dreams more vivid and memorable: the Lucidity part can only come from yourself. So at best this Lucid Dream Pill can make it a bit more easy to pick up on lucidity. They shouldn't call it The Lucid Pill though.

I am as curious as you are to find out how effective it is. I can speak from experience when it comes to B vitamins and Melatonin. I used to take Melatonin for years as a prescription sleep aid: Melatonin is the biggest medical joke lately. If it ever has any effect at all it is Placebo. I'm not the first to state, out of experience, that Melatonin is zero-effective.

1 thing I just dare state, even without experience, is that at least it is most uncredible that any supplement can induce lucidity. Don't get me wrong: I'm not one of thise "pure" wise asses. I am very much interrested in shamanism and especially where Shamanism meets Oneirology. But Lucidity cannot be induced externally. It comes from the inside. Or do you believe/know otherwise?

Yes, I also don't like all the expensive comercial crap that promises wonders.
I think there is a chance that some substences can help induce lucidity, and not just improve dream recall and vividness. galantamine with choline might have potential. galantamine was given by LaBarge to people on some of his courses. It's possilble that it can trigger REM. In theory, this can help achieve a WILD:
Lets say you take it before the WILD attempt, after some time the dream is starting in the form of HI, and if you go through that without waking or losing awarness, you succeed in the WILD. If you take galantamine and choline before the WILD attempt, than in theory the "wave" of HI will be much stronger, and you will be able to "surf" it much more easily into the dream.
I am going to try it very soon, ( not the pill, but instead galantamine and cholin ), and when I do I will report the results.

**SKA** · 06-20-2007 06:49 AM

Interresting. Instead of wasting alot of money I might seek and buy this Choline and galantamine. Are they available in drugstores and healthfoodstores? I bet they are nowhere near as pricey as the lucid dream pill. Maybe you know of any foods/drinks that naturally contain these substances?

Maybe with a little Dreamherbs added this will make for a much better, and much cheaper dreampotentiator. Maybe with tiny doses of mushrooms or acid this truely skyrockets Hypnagogia. Still the "manage to stay aware"-part is up to the Dreamer him/her-self. I am going to find out soon enough.

**dodobird** · 06-20-2007 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by SKA

Interresting. Instead of wasting alot of money I might seek and buy this Choline and galantamine. Are they available in drugstores and healthfoodstores? I bet they are nowhere near as pricey as the lucid dream pill. Maybe you know of any foods/drinks that naturally contain these substances?

Choline ( which comes as Choline Bitartrate or Choline Citrate ) is very cheap, and it also apears in eggs, meats, soybeans, peanuts, and probably a lot of other stuff. but i'm afraid galantamine is expensive. Is some countries galantamine needs prescription, and in some it doesn't. It doesn't apear in any food naturaly as far as I know.

Originally Posted by SKA

Still the "manage to stay aware"-part is up to the Dreamer him/her-self. I am going to find out soon enough.

Definitely. Your natural WILDing skills will be a factor. This can only be seen as a booster, not a complete replacement to traditional LD skills. I hope to know soon just how strong a booster it is.

**robroy** · 06-20-2007 09:14 AM

SKA:

Unfortunately, many websites use the phrase "guranteed." Lucid dreams are NOT guranteed and if the advertisement says so I would call that false advertiseing. Most of the websites I have seen gurantee the following:

Experience More Beneficial REM Sleep!
Wake Feeling Refreshed & Energized
Master Lucid Dreaming
Improve Dream Recall & Memory
Induce Intense Erotic Dreams
Dramatically Boost Creativity and Inspiration
Apply Dream Interpretation for Personal Growth

Even that is probably stretching it, however the substance, like melatonin does highly intensive the dream experience. After that it's up to the dreamer to remember he/her is dreaming, otherwise you've wasted your money.
Rob

**Seeker** · 06-20-2007 09:52 AM

I've got to agree with SKA on this one. There are substances that can aid in improving the vividness of dreams, but lucid dreaming, at least for now is a purely mental exercise.

I would probably be hesitant to even take an LD pill if it was proven, unless it had FDA approval and many years on the market to shake out long term side effects. It's not a good thing to be messing with your brain chemistry.

**robroy** · 06-20-2007 11:17 AM

Seeker (Admin) (:-)

In the early 1990’s Janssen pharmaceuticals (in conjunction with Johnson and Johnson) sought a drug to improve the cognitive ability of Alzheimer’s patients. They had heard of the claims that an extract from the common snowdrop plant had long been used for improving memory in eastern European herbal lore. They successfully created a synthetic version of this extract and proved in experiments for the
Food and Drug Administration
that indeed the extract known as galantamine improved the memory of those ravaged by the disease. In their studies they also noted an odd “side effect,” namely that those in the study reported significantly more dreams and enhanced dream recall.

This “side effect” excited dream researchers who further studied the natural plant extract and found that indeed several plants including the red spider lily and the common snowdrop had the effect of lengthening dreams, making them more vivid and easier to recall in the morning. Those taking galantamine at bedtime reported more dreams and described themselves as being “totally engrossed in a movie or fiction where on one level you really feel as if you are there and on another level realizing you dream.” A particularly interesting effect is that someone can wake up from a galantamine dream in the middle of the night and choose to go back to sleep and reenter the same dreamscape again.

CHeck out www.dreamamins.com

I might actually invest a few bucks down the line and try it.

Rob

**dodobird** · 06-20-2007 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by robroy

Seeker (Admin) (:-)

In the early 1990’s Janssen pharmaceuticals (in conjunction with Johnson and Johnson) sought a drug to improve the cognitive ability of Alzheimer’s patients. They had heard of the claims that an extract from the common snowdrop plant had long been used for improving memory in eastern European herbal lore. They successfully created a synthetic version of this extract and proved in experiments for the
Food and Drug Administration
that indeed the extract known as galantamine improved the memory of those ravaged by the disease. In their studies they also noted an odd “side effect,” namely that those in the study reported significantly more dreams and enhanced dream recall.

This “side effect” excited dream researchers who further studied the natural plant extract and found that indeed several plants including the red spider lily and the common snowdrop had the effect of lengthening dreams, making them more vivid and easier to recall in the morning. Those taking galantamine at bedtime reported more dreams and described themselves as being “totally engrossed in a movie or fiction where on one level you really feel as if you are there and on another level realizing you dream.” A particularly interesting effect is that someone can wake up from a galantamine dream in the middle of the night and choose to go back to sleep and reenter the same dreamscape again.

CHeck out www.dreamamins.com

I might actually invest a few bucks down the line and try it.

Rob

galantamine has tons of side effects. Better read about it before you try it.
BTW the price in this site mentioned in the post above is not so bad, compared to other sources I know of.

**arby** · 06-20-2007 01:25 PM

I'd have to say that this pill is probably 99% a sugar pill.

**robroy** · 06-20-2007 01:58 PM

ARBY

We live in an age of "reason," (or at least I like to think so) What is your reason/s for makeing your statement? (:-)
ROb

**SKA** · 06-23-2007 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by robroy

They had heard of the claims that an extract from the common snowdrop plant had long been used for improving memory in eastern European herbal lore. They successfully created a synthetic version of this extract and proved in experiments for the
Food and Drug Administration
that indeed the extract known as galantamine improved the memory of those ravaged by the disease.

The plantsource of the extract that was later synthesized and known as Galantamine: I looked it up and it's called Galanthus nivalis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdrop
Are you sure? I know a thing or 2 about making extracts. If I make an extract of this plant will I have natural galantamine. Wikipedia sais that the active substances contained in the plant are Anticholinesterases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinesterase

**dodobird** · 06-23-2007 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by SKA

The plantsource of the extract that was later synthesized and known as Galantamine: I looked it up and it's called Galanthus nivalis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdrop
Are you sure? I know a thing or 2 about making extracts. If I make an extract of this plant will I have natural galantamine. Wikipedia sais that the active substances contained in the plant are Anticholinesterases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinesterase

Well, I googled a little and found that it can be extracted from these plants:
Lycoris radiate, Galanthus nivalis, Ungerniya Victoris, Narcissus confusus

But I have no idea how the extraction is done.

**dodobird** · 06-25-2007 01:36 AM

I made a seperate thread about my experience with galantamine and Choline:
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...d.php?p=447636

**Asymptote** · 06-25-2007 09:30 AM

I'd advise anyone reading this to be wary of choline, and other similar supplements, since if you don't get the dosage right, they either don't work at all, or they can put you in a mental fog. I know they did for me.

**Swikity** · 06-25-2007 10:01 AM

Pretty much bullshit.
There really isn't any vitamens there that you can't get at the local drug store.

**epiclife** · 06-25-2007 12:04 PM

My friend got some 'African Dream Herb' over the internet and I have to say that stuff really worked. Also I took soem trazadone my friend gave me and that stuff does wonders for the vividness of your deams, so surly there are some substances that can effect you dreaming abilities.

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