Thread: TRUST SCIENCE, here is how u can be Lucid Dreamer right away

Yes you have some good points but why would you throw away what also works? Vitamin B12 and B6 among the tea's etc also work wonders. Making it a lot easier to recall, dream, and have LD's altogether. So if you used these in combination with the brainwave generator I could only see it increasing the chances of having a LD and not detrement them.

your absolutely right.

However you can find those vitamins in a balanced nutrition or just with suplements. Mind to everyone, you are what you eat, so your body MUST BE THREATED AS A TEMPLE.

If you have any carence and missing any vitamins for mal-nutrition (because you eat junk food all the time) you will then have GREAT PROBLEMS trying to do all this.

So just drinking tea wont compensate for malnutrition, and if you already have a good nutrition you don't need extra... Too much B-12 and B-6 is as worst as not enough. This is just comon sense.

So yeah my point is to not focus on those details, the good LD candidate is someone with a strong will and discipline, he must be saint in his body and mind by first being healthy. ALso when you control a dream it requieres a lot of self confidence and will power... So if u fall into chicken wings cause they look yummy you probably wont control big dreams :p

Interesting idea, but chemistry plays an immense role in your body, hence the term electro-chemical to describe thought and muscle coordination.

A question about your frequecies, isn't 3.5-4 the deep delta range? I though most dreams take place during REM, when the frequency is much higher??

Yeah but what I am saying is that some people/families may not purchase many foods with the Vitamins in which people are looking for. So having some supplements around the house for instance B12/B6 vitamins, some V8 juice, or some Arizona Green Tea around the house is not that big of problem since I am sure that the majority of people have a balanced diet. However there is not really that big of a problem enjoying some Green Tea or V8 before you go to bed or taking 100mg of some vitamins either. I doubt anyone will consume 1000mg of the substance during the course of the day so they should be fine.

As for frequency ranges, dreams take place during the Beta range which has a frequency of 12+.

The 3.4-4 is the Alpha/Theta range.

SOrry your right

9.0 - 13.0 - Alpha Range (according to [VUG]) - relaxed, not thinking about anything in particular, sometimes a pleasurable feeling of "floating". Often dominant in certain kinds of meditation, alpha waves have for the past twenty years been associated with calm, lucid mental states (the "alpha state"). They're also often detected during dream sleep. This pattern typically occurs in daydreaming, relaxed awareness, guided or focused imagery & smoothly rhythmic athletic activity. There's often a euphoric, effortless feeling of "flow" as the doer is absorbed in activity and subject + object are felt to be united. [VUG via DW]

I never tried that technic myself as Im pretty good at meditation and getting on the right mood right off. I found out that website recently while reading on the HAARP system supposely there is a secret part in HAARP to control human mind by playing with those frequencies, a part of the Illuminati plan. But thats another debate.

Actually I was right,

Its frequencies under 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr63N...elated&search=

4 pulses per sec

Scientists say that REM sleep occurs at the Beta range during the fifth stage of sleep with a fequency of 12+. I wouldn't count a old school video from youtube as a very good source of information.

I read a book a year or so ago called The High Performance Mind which covers the whole relation between brainwave levels and thought/meditation. I just found this while Googleing the name of the book (I had forgotten). Looks like the author made her own little BrainWaveGen CD.

Del, regarding the "trust science" method, I'm all for that type of reasoning. However, there is a factor of confidence and belief which can help many of those who struggle with lucidity. The mere fact of saying "trust science" proves my point - you're suggesting someone believe in something to give them the confidence or expectation that they have the ability to do be successful. I believe it's the meditation that helps establish alot.

Either way, it comes down to whatever works for ya.

Originally Posted by Seeker

A question about your frequecies, isn't 3.5-4 the deep delta range? I though most dreams take place during REM, when the frequency is much higher??

I'm no expert on frequencies, so I'll just pass on what the two references I use most often show.

The Brainwave Generator page shows that the Theta range of 4Hz - 8Hz as being the first state of sleep with the Delta range of .5Hz - 4Hz being where deep sleep occurs. It shows the Alpha state of 8Hz - 14Hz being a state of relaxed but alert.

The help manual from Neuro-Programmer Professional shows the Theta range being from 3hz - 8hz with the range of 5hz - 8hz being the state where very relaxed and dreamful sleep occurs, with the Delta range of .2hz - 3hz being where deep, dreamless sleep occurs, and shows the alpha state of 8hz - 12hz being the state that a person is in early in the morning or while daydreaming.

So even among the experts who make these products there is some disagreement.

My own personal experience is that the lower settings produce the most vivid dreams, so I currently set my frequencies to about 3hz and then raise the volume when I want to become aware that I am dreaming, although it normally just wakes me up.

I shall now raise the frequencies up to about 5 hz to see what effect that might have.

Originally Posted by iadr

I shall now raise the frequencies up to about 5 hz to see what effect that might have.

So far, so good. I tried using 5hz for the frequency last night and still had really vivid, exciting dreams, 9 all together, so will continue raising the frequencies in hopes of possibly becoming aware in the dreams instead of just waking up.

Has anyone else tried using binaural beats or pulses to alter their consciouness, and had success with it? If so, what frequency did you use?

I've found the easiest way to use this is to have the beats barely audible when I first go to bed in order to be able to fall asleep easily, and then increase the volume of the beats after about 1 1/2 hours when I want to become aware in my dreams.

I believe Dreams in the REM-sleep are in a theta-wave condition.
I have tried Brainwave generator but not yet extensively enough to come to any conclusion or desirable effects. Tea, Vitamin B6 and Shamanistic Dreamherbs, allthough no solid, 100% trustable ways to dream vividly and lucidly, defenitely have effetcs.

I think it's a good thing to point out NOT to rely on them, but I think they can be great aids in your efforts.

Has anyone else tried using binaural beats or pulses to alter their consciouness, and had success with it? If so, what frequency did you use?

Yes, I used it quite a bit at first - I still have my own custom "program" on my iPod. Every now and then I give it a try. Results? It definitely gets me to sleep quicker.

I don't have the settings I used with me right now, but I'm pretty sure I did the following:

Start out at about 13Hz (which is about where you are when fully aware).

Then, over a period of about half an hour (which is what it usually takes me to fall asleep - on a good night). I drop somewhere down into the upper single digits.

I fiddle with the frequencies for about the next 90 minutes, dropping into the delta and theta ranges for the stage III and IV.

Then, over a span of a few short minutes, I bring it back up to about 10Hz(I think), which is where I want to be during REM - almost, but not quite awake.

I then repeat the process going back to stage II frequecy. The entire mp3 is about 4 hours. I also made another 6 hour mp3, but it is comprised of ambient sounds which I mixed together - no binaural beats. Next step is to combine the two. Been too lazy to do it, though, I sort of lost interest in experimenting. Now I usually play my "To Sleep" playlist which is mostly music.

I will say this, there is a very soothing feeling (almost trance-like) I get when I had occasionally woken up during the very low frequency part of the cycle - so I feel that there is definitely some effect on the mind.

Thanks for the feedback SKA and Tornado Joe. It looks like for me that frequencies of 5hz or slightly below are what works best. I tried 6hz last night and it just didn't work as well as 5hz, except for keeping me awake a bit longer so that I could get thru my meditation, so I lowered it back down to 5hz and finished the night out with a flurry of dreams.

I've tried raising the frequencies to 12hz and even to 38hz or higher at times, and tried all kinds of combinations of having them go up and down between the different ranges, but it just wakes me up. Nothing seems to work as well as just leaving the frequencies at a lower level such 5hz or a little lower and then raising the volume to raise my awareness as this allows me to stay in the dreams longer without waking up so fast.

On another note, your Rule 3, Control your emotions and yourself, makes a lot of sense delpiero.

I remember reading a book on Astral Projection over 20 years ago by Sylvan Muldoon where he suggested than in order to be sucessful at Astral Projection that a person needed to learn to control their emotions and stay as calm as possible during the day, and not let anything disturb them.

I look forward to reading more of your posts delpiero.