Thread: Buying A New Computer

Originally Posted by O

I hear rumours that there is a new Windows OS coming out at the end of this month or later..?[/b]

Wow, hows live under a rock?

Yep, Windows Vista
Personally, I wouldn't touch vista with a barge-pole
but that's hardly an objective opinion.....

Originally Posted by O

I have also noticed a dramatic increase in RAM capability in just the past year. I have a laptop from last year which has 480 mb ram and suddenly, only a year later, it is obsolete. Not only are games minimal requirements 512 mb ram, but I see laptops going up to 2 GB ram?! Am I missing something here..?[/b]

standard ram on a stock PC at the moment is 1Gb
You can get 1Gb (and, for a premium 2Gb) on a single stick
but it really does depend how you use your PC

Games? 4Gb will make you very happy

If money is no object, then build your own
you'll get exactly what you want
Want a neon flashing case? go for one
instead of buying an off-the-self flashy case comp
with the case costing half the RRP and giving you a shitty PC

Advice.....
Go dual core for proc.
Go PCI-Express for graphics

Yes, a new Windows OS is coming out slap bang end of this month. It's quite pretty (and in my not-so-objective opinion either, worth it). RAM and pretty much most computer memory/speed type things increase capacity/speed dramatically - see Moore's Law if you've never heard of it before.

You should be looking at 1-2GB if you want a sensible amount for the future.

you wait.....you just wait......

6 months from now, forums, globally, will be chok-a-blok full of "Vista ate my music licences" posts

mark my words.....

make one now, and wait ...

But of course.

O'nus, what do you need the computer for?

If you are not a heavy gamer (meaning you weigh less than 200 lbs or 90 kg) I recommend Apple's iMac. Yes, I know many people think "Macs suck" without ever having used one in their lives. Well, let's see. Mac OS X is a superior OS to Windows (BSD and GNU/Linux distros still get my vote), the iMac is actually not overpriced (starts at $999 with an Intel Core 2 Duo), there is a Mac OS X equivalent for almost every Windows program, you can run Windows software and the occasional game in Wine or CrossOver directly on Mac OS X, and you can even run Windows as its own OS on an iMac if you love the world of viruses and spyware. The hardware looks awesome and takes up almost no space. Windows Vista is coming out soon, but from what I've heard, it's just an overpriced version of XP with some Mac OS X features. Mac OS X Leopard is also coming out, and it looks like it will be even better than the current Mac OS X Tiger. If you are leaning toward another manufacturer that comes with Windows preinstalled, compare the hardware specs and the cost with the iMac. Apple might actually be offering the less expensive and more powerful solution.

The one exception to my "avoid Windows at all costs" rule is if you are addicted to computer games. In that case, assemble your own PC to get the fastest computer for the price. Newegg.com seems to offer the best prices in general (mail-in rebates notwithstanding). Run Windows XP (Vista is a memory hog, which doesn't bode well for games) or GNU/Linux with Cedega (or a well-configured Wine installation). Ubuntu and SUSE don't require much knowledge of computers, and they offer all the main benefits of a free OS: stable -- crashing is extremely rare, secure -- hardly any vulnerabilities especially in comparison to Windows and no viruses or spyware, fast/powerful -- fully customizable kernel and UNIX command-line, etc.

Wow, I just realized that I overuse parentheses! May I please have a cookie?

*hands over cookie*

I wouldn't reccomend building your own computer if you don't know what you're doing. You'll just end up with a useless box. If you have a friend that's really good at building computers, you might as him/her to build exactly what you want and hopefully for a cheaper price.

If you're just going to use your computer for the web, get a lower range one and put your money into your ISP. If you're a mega gamer, get something at the high end of the range that will keep up with new games for quite a few years. That's assuming you have absolutely no issue with money, seeing as top of the line machines can top $4,000.

Yay, I got a cookie! QuinsepiaSquared, I agree that you shouldn't try to assemble a computer if you don't know what you're doing at all, but there are some good books and web sites that can get you up to speed. I seem to remember this site being a good tutorial if you read it step by step. Come to think of it, there is also a For Dummies book on the subject.

Originally Posted by Ynot

you wait.....you just wait......

6 months from now, forums, globally, will be chok-a-blok full of "Vista ate my music licences" posts

mark my words.....
[/b]

Call me when that happens, k?

If you make a concious effort to stay away from DRM (it's not hard people, just simply steer clear of any online music purchasing services) then you'll be fine.

As for Gaming on Vista, I've got mixed feelings. I ran Battlefield 2 & 2142, Half-Life 2 (and almost all the other source games) on Vista (3.2 ghz, 1GB of ram, and a nvidia 7600) and here's what I found:

Pros:
- The games ran/loaded a lot faster, probably due to the fact that it was a clean Vista installation and Vista's new memory management thing that Kaniaz told me about.
- DirectX 10 - Not something that will matter until games start using it, but oh will it be sweet.

Cons:
- When playing Battlefield 2142, I was kicked from Punkbuster for having "inadequate OS privileges" (it even says you need "Windows XP with admin rights" on the game box), but this was fixed easily by running the program as administrator: Just right click (mac user: "lol whats right click?") and select "Run as administrator". I admit that UAC is a tad bit annoying but it's easy to turn that off.
- Drivers drivers drivers - This is a problem that will go away within a few months (providing that hardware companies get their ass in gear), but it is still an annoying one. My obscure sound card was viewed as a modem from the operating system. I managed to get sound to work - kinda, but it ceased to work in Half-Life as soon as I started to play a new game. (It was pretty weird, since the game couldn't use sound, the G-man's lips didn't move in the opening scene).

One thing I've heard people say that's quite annoying is this:
It uses up all of my ram! Just look at the task manager, see, Free memory: none
That's Vista's new RAM caching, basically it puts the extra RAM you're not using to good use. When you close a program it keeps it in memory so it loads faster next time you run it. There's also superfetch, which watches what programs you use and, after a while, tries to predict what programs you will use when, preloading them into the RAM when it thinks you're gonna use them. Of course when new programs are introduced and it needs more RAM, cache'd programs are moved out of memory. Right now I have 13 MB of ram free, 512 is being used, and 1009 is holding cached programs. Some may think that Aero uses up all the RAM since the minimum requirement for it is 1GB (but really, if you have less than 1GB, then that's pretty sad), however right now the aero process (dwm.exe) is using 2 megabytes (because I'm in remote desktop), but when I'm using the actual computer it tends to stay at about 24 MB.

Windows (Vista) is an operating system that does the thinking for you, so you don't have to.

Originally Posted by Ynot

BSD and GNU/Linux distros still get my vote[/b]

Both the greatest and worst thing about Linux/UNIX is the fact that everything needs configuring. It's great because it allows for the most customizability, but it sucks because not everybody cares (especially grandma) whether their print server renders print jobs client-side or server-side. They just want it to work, that's all.

Originally Posted by Ynot

The hardware looks awesome and takes up almost no space.[/b]

I do have to admit, Apple does make some sexy hardware (except for the mighty mouse), I mean look how popular iTunes/iPod is, and it's not exactly the pinnacle of media systems software-wise.

EDIT: Haha, way to stay on topic, MSG. O'nus: Buying from an OEM vendor is usually good since you get a warranty, support, and the whole shebang, but they usually install shitty software on your computer that the companies pay them to install, so if you buy a Dell or HP or something then make sure you ask that they not install anything but the OS. As for a Mac, I think it'd be fine as long as you just do simple stuff like browse the web and IM, but if you do get a mac don't even think about being able to upgrade anything.

Thanks guys.

I am looking for a computer because I would certainly like to play some new games. However, I am glad I made this post because I never really thought of 'why' I needed a computer. After careful consideration - I do not really need one besides leisure desires. I think I may hold off on a new computer for a while. All I really need is something to type essay's on and perhaps play some games.

This thread has really made me realize I am no longer a computer geek.. lol.. I know nothing! What's an OEM?

~

Originally Posted by O

What's an OEM?[/b]

Original Equipment Manufacturer

companies that sell the hardware box with all the software pre-installed
(ie. Dell, Compaq, etc. etc.)

it makes a difference, as they will install windows using their OEM licence number
and there's usually some clause in the warranty that if you wipe the disk and re-install from anything other than their restore disks, you void the warranty

Don't buy from an OEM if you can avoid it. They can turn what would be a fine computer into a rather crappy one with their "backup disks", "backup partitions", and - my favourite - Norton Antivirus. Why does that piece of crap get bundled so much?

XP. Woefully old. Too old. Creaky gate kind of old. It was good once upon a time, it will hold a place in many people's hearts for the future, but frankly, it's just old. Don't use it when new OSes are coming out of the wazoo, pick another solution. I'm not using it, why should you?

Vista. Coming out soon. Sprightly and new. Supposedly going to be shot down by virus authors in ten seconds (so say press releases written by antivirus vendors). I've been using it, no problems so far, although the price tag makes me cringe so very slightly, although that's possibly what you get when you insist on "Ultimate" edition. Not a memory-hog, not going to kill your dog, it works (for me). I think it's a nice upgrade and still works with a lot of applications you're familiar with but it's not going to revolutionize your computing experience or whatever BS they claim.

Linux. Great stuff, you're supporting the wonderful free open source folks, and you'll recommend it to all your friends because it doesn't cost you a red cent. Which is nice. But then the novelty wears off and the feelings succinctly put as "oh-shit it's not really that different from any other OS" and "did I really just spend my entire weekend getting a wireless network card working" set in. Great for servers, I still feel not great for casual users. I would (and do) use it in some scenarios it excels at.

Mac. Very pretty. There can be no doubt about it, there's some catching up to be done from both Windows and Linux camps when it comes to visually whoring your OS out. Then, of course, you look at the receipt and wonder if the same old computing experience with pretty glowing buttons was really worth that premium. So yes, very pretty, very trendy, very expensive. I would not buy one because I can't.

"did I really just spend my entire weekend getting a wireless network card working"[/b]

I did!

I'm going to wait a few months and buy a computer a while after Vista. All the current vista compatible pieces of hardware are only in 1st generation at the moment. So firstly, prices should drop, and companies should start building everything towards what everyone wants..

Yeah same here. I'm about to buy a laptop, but I'm going to wait until after it's released (3 days from now) so I can get the price advantage over Vista and Office 2k7 (which is sexy).

I did![/b]

Me too, actually. dhcpcd was the problem.

(As for Vista compatible pieces of hardware, you mean the drivers? I mean it's not like old pieces of hardware can't work on any particular OS).

Well, Windows is certainly nice for games. I mean, it's really the only system you can go out and buy a game at Wal-Mart, put the disk in the drive, and expect it to work.
But I think you've underestimated Linux.
Debian's remarkably automatic. It configures itself almost entirely without help.
And Ubuntu (Debian's sexy daughter) requires virtually no setup. In fact, when I reinstalled Windows from scratch on my HP Presario (Yes, sad, I know), Windows didn't recognize the universal media slots that came preinstalled on the computer. It didn't recognize my wireless card or my ethernet card, either. That made setting up the internet all sorts of fun.
Ubuntu, meanwhile, recognized every device on my machine, excepting the wireless card since the manufacturers refused to supply Linux drivers.

The best part is, while you Winblows users are out trying to find your manufacturer's website to download and install the latest drivers for your graphics card, your wireless card, and your printer, Linux users just update the Kernel and ALL drivers are automatically included. Things just work.

And I really love installing new programs--I don't have to spin in a circle twice and throw salt over my left shoulder to prove my Windows is "genuine". I don't have to go through long installation windows and CD-Keys. And, obviously, I don't have to pay a cent.
I just click "add/remove programs", browse the categories of programs or search for a specific program, click install. And again, it just works.

ALL drivers are automatically included. Things just work.[/b]

I don't have to go through long installation windows and CD-Keys. And, obviously, I don't have to pay a cent.[/b]

Uh. That is exactly how my Windows installation was (and is). As with any OS, mileage varies. One person's experience will never ever be a gauge of how everyone else is going to fare. But for the record:

• I didn't need to install a single driver. At all. On Vista, or indeed XP. My graphics card just worked. Windows Update actually found the drivers. This is particularly contrary to my experience with Linux (a driver for 56k? Good luck, folks&#33 but I think the best thing to say here is that neither OS is better at this: your mileage will vary.
• I don't quite know how you exaggerated pressing 'continue' on a Genuine Advantage check (you know, the kind of check that millions of people have somehow got through with no griping). I haven't actually had to do a single check yet that I was aware of.
• I install programs by double clicking a .msi. It might not be install from this list of 10,000 RPMs which does not include every single package ever (and in fact is a damned far cry useless if you're trying to install any application even slightly by the wayside), but I manage.
• Calling it Winblows is just sad.

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

a driver for 56k? Good luck, folks![/b]

Winmodem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winmodem

1. Swear at the manufacturers
2. Buy another modem

1. Swear at the manufacturers[/b]

Trust me, I did everything. Then I realised it wasn't half worth my time.

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

I did everything. [/b]

except buy a decent modem, it seems.......

You think I was going to pay for a new modem so I could get on the internet, experience the true thrill of the open source rainbow and find the arcane incantations that would get my sound card working and then spend another weekend downloading all the libraries I'd need to compile just about anything I wanted to use?

Answer: I wasn't. And I'm still not.

you have no sense of adventure

I don't get how automatically detecting hardware / finding drivers is supposed to be some huge acheivement, but I think we can all agree that right now, Windows and Linux install equally easily, provided that you don't use obscure hardware (however, Vista was able to automatically find and install drivers for my TV Tuner, whereas with Linux, it took me hours of hunting before I got a driver that required a complicated install process that almost made me cry). The major problem with Linux is the programs.

Let's start with the package manager. I liked the centralization of everything, however the part I didn't like was how I was relying on Ubuntu's cooperation in making sure their packages are constantly updated. Usually, I had to wait a few days, if not weeks, before the latest version was delivered to me (I went 3 weeks without realizing that there was a new version of XGL (Which is a pretty popular program), so I decided to add the official XGL release repository to my sources list, to which then it caused conflicts and broke apt-get, to the point where I couldn't install any programs. I managed to get it working again, but it wasn't exactly a fun process).

Well, for the times when the package manager WAS working, installing programs was pretty easy. Just go into a terminal (Grandma: Will I have to type for this?) and say sudo apt-get install _______. The part about it wanting my password was a bit irritating, but I didn't break my back over it. I went with the advice on www.ubuntuguide.org to assist me in choosing which program was best. What I found was that on top of a flawed program delivery system, the programs themselves were crap. Talk about homebrew pieces of shit, almost all of the programs were waay underdeveloped (especially visually). Even if they did appear complete, they were much buggier than they should be. For instance, Blender and Firefox crashed far more often than their Windows versions. The only FTP program I could find was gFTP, that crashing monstrocity, the only IRC client I could use was Xchat, which developed some weird character bug in which ugly unicode characters with hexadecimal in them surrounded people's nicks on every line (I later resorted to mIRC in WINE, because I started needing decent logs for stats and stuff).

There was more but I don't feel like recollecting any further.

msg,
with all the problems you seem to have, I'd say linux isn't for you
keep windows or get a mac
whatever you want, really