Thread: Tell Me About Music Theory

Originally Posted by Riff

Aka the arrangment of music, specifically on guitar.[/b]

People spend years studying music theory. It is going to be interesting to watch how folk try to respond to this.

Just to touch on the basics, I would want to first learn the numerical relationships so I could instantly grab (and recognize by ear) any interval I wanted - second, third, fourth, fifth... through thirteenth. I want to know them no matter where I'm rooting - so that means learning it through at least four and probably six strings.

I would want to know the scales. Not the scale PATTERNS on the neck of the guitar, but the scales constructed from intervals and then practiced over the entire neck based on what I learned in the first paragraph. What scales? Major, natural minor, melodic minor, harmonic minor, bebop and major and minor pentatonics would be a great start. Throw the modes in there too.

On that foundation, I would then study chords... again, not chord FORMS on the neck, but how to actually construct them using the interval relationships. Then I would practice creating them all over the neck in all inversions, and learn to run each of their arpeggios up and down the entire range of the neck. What chords? Everything from major triads to the most elaborate extensions and embellishments you can conjure up. Major, minor, diminished, major and dominant sevenths, suspensions (2,4, 9, 11,) augmented, six, nine, eleven, thirteen and all appropriate sharp and flats within the extensions, in all conceivable inversions and also learning which notes can be left out while still maintaining the "flavor" of the chord.

By now, certain repeating patterns are going to be emerging for you. Those - learned in this way rather than the other way around, are going to be the key to gaining great speed and finding other interesting ways to think about and approach your instrument.

With all of this, I would be studying standard musical forms - I vi IV V, ii V I, etc., and learning to hear them in all kinds of music. I would be learning what scales and arpeggios work over different combinations and WHY.

In addition to all of this, I would be avoiding TAB like it was an ugly virus - forcing myself to do it all using standard notation. Learn the notes and learn the timing, for real and over the entire neck.

Oh... and always always always work to a metronome.

There's a nutshell theory syllabus for the guitar. Don't expect to accomplish it in a month or a year... it is a lifetime's worth of study that will begin paying dividends immediately in your arrangements and writing.

WOW

Hum.. Music theory you say? Pretty intense subject.

The basics are all easy - but you HAVE to learn them. The basics being things like notation, rhythm, scales, intervals, chords. I suggest going here and doing all of the lessons and trainers. This should put you through all of the basics. After that, you can get into arranging music for the guitar.

I suggest to any musicians out there that you learn as much as you can about music theory - even if you are just a performer. The more you know about music, the easier it is to play/write/listen/enjoy music.

Let's see, how much can I cram in here...

Notes are arranged from A through G sharp (G#). G# is also known as A flat (Ab) - but more on that later.

Distance between each key (piano) or fret (guitar) is HALF a step. So, distance from A to B is one WHOLE step because there is a flat (black key on keyboard) between them. That flat is Bb (or A#, depending on what key you're in). Key is like a "family" of notes which belong together according to their scale. Scale is made up of a series of HALF steps and WHOLE steps between notes. It's sort of like a code.

Example:
W=whole / H=half

W-W-h-W-W-W-h is the formula for a MAJOR scale. Starting from C, you would count two keys (to make a whole) and end up at D. Then from D, count two keys (another whole) and get to E. From E, looking at a keyboard, you only need to go ONE step (half) because the E and F keys are right next to each other (no black key in between, and on guitar, no fret in between).

---------------

12 NOTES

There are really only 12 "notes" on a piano. These 12 notes are repeated from end to end, each set of notes (from A to G#) is identified by it's octave (according to where it's located on the board).
A-B-C-D-E-F-G <-- seven main ones "white" keys" on the piano)
F#-Ab-Bb and Db- Eb <-(- "black keys")

So, the piano would look like this:
C-Db-D-Eb-E-F-F#-G-Ab-A-Bb-B-C-Db-D-Eb-E-F-F#-G-Ab-A-Bb-B-C-Db-D-Eb-E-F-F#-G-Ab-A-Bb-B .... etc

CHORDS
Music is arranged using this system. Chords are created when you take certain notes from a scale like the 1st, 3rd, 5th and octave and play them together.

So, the C chord would be made up of the C - E - G - C notes. Chords come in many flavors depending on what you do to each of these special notes. For instance, a C MINOR occurs when you take the 3rd note, and drop it one step (half). This results in C - Eb - G - C. That&#39;s the chord that can give you a somewhat eerie or sad mood. So if you wanted to play a C chord on the piano, you would strike the C-E-G-C keys at once.

Whew... ok, so guitars:
Five strings (on the traditional guitar).
E - A - D - G - B - E <--(note two E&#39;s, they are a couple octaves away from each other)

You create chords by strumming or plucking strings together on a guitar as so:

on the A string, count 3 steps(frets) and hold that down. A+3 steps = C. So you got a C, now you need an E. Take the D string, and add two steps (whole) and set another finger on the second fret. There is your E. Now all you need is a G... BLAM&#33; The next string IS a G&#33; No need to finger it (heh, that sounds hot ). Now all you gotta do is add another C, which you can do by taking that B string and adding a whole step, which is... what?... that&#39;s right, TWO frets&#33;.

Now get your guitar pick, crank up the amp to 10 (or eleven&#33 and strum that bitch LOUD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Wow tornado joe that was so helpful you have no idea.

Really? Cool&#33; There is so much more to it, I didn&#39;t think I could cram enough in a simple post to have it make any sense.
Glad it did&#33;

Learn to play instruments that are not guitars.

Edit:

If you play with other people, make sure to play in time. Nothing is more annoying than playing with someone who has no idea how to stay in time.

Originally Posted by Northastings

Learn to play instruments that are not guitars.

Edit:

If you play with other people, make sure to play in time. Nothing is more annoying than playing with someone who has no idea how to stay in time.[/b]

Amen to both&#33;

Piano/keyboards are the best way to wrap your brain around music theory. Any fretless instrument or voice will develop the ear.

And staying in time... that is the thing that separates the pros from the wannabes. Like I said wayyy up there - always always always practice with a metronome. It is the truth serum in separating what you really know from what you wish you knew.

Originally Posted by pj

Amen to both&#33;

Piano/keyboards are the best way to wrap your brain around music theory. Any fretless instrument or voice will develop the ear.

And staying in time... that is the thing that separates the pros from the wannabes. Like I said wayyy up there - always always always practice with a metronome. It is the truth serum in separating what you really know from what you wish you knew.[/b]

As a drummer - YES&#33; The more you understand about time and rhythm, the better. I&#39;d say you should invest a lot of your time in learning to read complex rhythms.

Try not to use powerchords. They have been recycled over and over and are annoying.

Originally Posted by Northastings

Try not to use powerchords. They have been recycled over and over and are annoying.[/b]

Just had this conversation on IRC today. Here&#39;s a random music theory fact for you. A power chord is actually not a chord. Technically a chord is three or more different notes. A power chord consists of root, fifth, and octave. That is, if you are in the key of C, a power chord would be C, G, and C (octave higher). This is just an open fifth with a stacked octave on top - this makes it an interval (two different notes) and not a chord. If it was C, E, G, than it would be a chord (a C major chord, to be specific). So now what have we learned?

One note is a note.
Two different notes is an interval.
Three or more different notes is a chord.

Just throwing that out there.

I play guitar btw. Is a metrenome really necessary? How much are they?

Originally Posted by Riff

I play guitar btw. Is a metrenome really necessary? How much are they?[/b]

Metronomes are anywhere from &#036;5-&#036;300. I&#39;d go with the standard Korg metronome. It&#39;s about &#036;20 and gives you everything you need - digital tempo with optional sub-division.

Edit: also, learning other instruments will help you understand music theory better. The more music you are involved with, the more you learn. Also, like everyone said, piano/keyboard is the best instrument choice for learning music theory. It lays out very visually everything you need to know.

Originally Posted by Riff

I play guitar btw. Is a metrenome really necessary? How much are they?[/b]

If you want to be good, yes. There is no negotiating that one.

Electronic ones are cheap. You can even find free metronome programs if you dig around.

Originally Posted by pj

If you want to be good, yes. There is no negotiating that one.

Electronic ones are cheap. You can even find free metronome programs if you dig around.[/b]

I can argue for the other side (even though I mostly agree with you).

Most romantic era composers are meant to be played with rubato (litterally: stolen time - basically the tempo speeds up and slows down) at all times. Metronomes aren&#39;t exactly necessary here - however, I feel that you need to learn to play in time before you learn to play with rubato.

Originally Posted by Artelis

I can argue for the other side (even though I mostly agree with you).

Most romantic era composers are meant to be played with rubato (litterally: stolen time - basically the tempo speeds up and slows down) at all times. Metronomes aren&#39;t exactly necessary here - however, I feel that you need to learn to play in time before you learn to play with rubato.[/b]

That&#39;s exactly how I would reply if you chose to argue.

Being able to play in time is the first step to being able to play WITH time. That is the ultimate goal... hanging the backbeat, pushing the downbeat... breathing - but doing it without losing the underlying structure. Even within changing time, you better know the difference between an eight-note triplet and a sixteenth... and be able to play both in that changing time.

My point isn&#39;t regarding performance so much, though that is where it all leads. It is regarding an objective way of testing how well you know and can play something. Can you skip fourths from low E to as high as your neck reaches? Of course... but can you do it at 160 in quarters, triplets, eighths, etc... ? In other words, could you actually USE it while playing real music?

Originally Posted by pj

Being able to play in time is the first step to being able to play WITH time. That is the ultimate goal... hanging the backbeat, pushing the downbeat... breathing - but doing it without losing the underlying structure. Even within changing time, you better know the difference between an eight-note triplet and a sixteenth... and be able to play both in that changing time.[/b]

ugh, my pet peeve is when someone tries to play a dotted eight, sixteenth, and it comes out like a quarter-triplet, eight-triplet. Fuck bad timing.

Also, table of times - if you can play it accurately, you will be ten times better. Play four quarters, then play six quarter-triplets, then 8 eigths, 12 triplets, 16 sixteenths - etc. Basically you keep decreasing the note value and play a whole 4/4 measure of that given note value. Some people also call it a metric accelerando since it sounds like you&#39;re speeding up, but the tempo remains the same.

Okay so im getting a metrenome whenever i can, but what do i do with it. I know it like beeps on time but do i just randomly pick frets or play something??

Treat it like your drummer. Artelis described how you use it already - you play to it, in time. Work the table of times with your scales, arpeggios, sweeps... when you&#39;re learning chord progressions, always practice them to the metronome.

Don&#39;t fight the metronome though - if you can&#39;t do it, slow it down until you can. Then step the time up as you go.

You aren&#39;t going to BELIEVE how fast your playing will improve once you begin practicing this way. In a word, it keeps you from practicing something wrong - IF you&#39;re being honest with yourself and paying attention.

That&#39;s exactly how I would reply if you chose to argue.

Being able to play in time is the first step to being able to play WITH time. That is the ultimate goal... hanging the backbeat, pushing the downbeat... breathing - but doing it without losing the underlying structure. Even within changing time, you better know the difference between an eight-note triplet and a sixteenth... and be able to play both in that changing time.

My point isn&#39;t regarding performance so much, though that is where it all leads. It is regarding an objective way of testing how well you know and can play something. Can you skip fourths from low E to as high as your neck reaches? Of course... but can you do it at 160 in quarters, triplets, eighths, etc... ? In other words, could you actually USE it while playing real music?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

I can argue for the other side (even though I mostly agree with you).

Most romantic era composers are meant to be played with rubato (litterally: stolen time - basically the tempo speeds up and slows down) at all times. Metronomes aren&#39;t exactly necessary here - however, I feel that you need to learn to play in time before you learn to play with rubato.[/b]

[/b][/quote]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Being able to play in time is the first step to being able to play WITH time. That is the ultimate goal... hanging the backbeat, pushing the downbeat... breathing - but doing it without losing the underlying structure. Even within changing time, you better know the difference between an eight-note triplet and a sixteenth... and be able to play both in that changing time.[/b]

ugh, my pet peeve is when someone tries to play a dotted eight, sixteenth, and it comes out like a quarter-triplet, eight-triplet. Fuck bad timing.

Also, table of times - if you can play it accurately, you will be ten times better. Play four quarters, then play six quarter-triplets, then 8 eigths, 12 triplets, 16 sixteenths - etc. Basically you keep decreasing the note value and play a whole 4/4 measure of that given note value. Some people also call it a metric accelerando since it sounds like you&#39;re speeding up, but the tempo remains the same.[/b][/quote]

Ok, if the maestro&#39;s are done strokin&#39; each other&#39;s staves....

Okay so im getting a metrenome whenever i can, but what do i do with it. I know it like beeps on time but do i just randomly pick frets or play something??[/b]

Play something - preferrably scales. Maybe start out playing one note to each beat (click). Start our really slow, just on the side of too easy. Then, try playing the scale while trying to fit TWO notes between each beat. Speed up the beat a bit, then go back to one note per beat. Then two per beat. Speed up again... etc, etc.

I would watch Howard Goodall how music works television series.

yeah, scales are good for this. There is a little exercise called greens that can help a lot. I&#39;ll explain it really quickly.

Greens works on a scale, we&#39;ll use the C major scale. You start on C and play up the scale to the fifth (G):
C, D, E, F, G

Then you come back down to the root ( C )
F, E, D, C

Repeat that pattern again.
C, D, E, F, G, F, E, D, C

The next time through you go all the way up the scale to the nineth (D).
C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D -> all upwards.

Come back down to the fifth (G)
C, B, A, G

Back up to the nineth
A, B, C, D

Back down the scale
C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C

up and down the scale to the nineth one more time for good measure
C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D

Back down
C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C

You&#39;re done: Here is the whole exercise (it&#39;s easier than you think)
C, D, E, F, G, F, E, D, C, D, E, F, G, F, E, D, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, C, B, A, G, A, B, C, D, C, B, A, G, A, B, C, D, C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C

Long winded, I know, but check it out nice and slow.

Here is how to play effectively with a met:
Start slow - play something at a comfortable tempo several time and then bump the tempo up about 2-3 clicks. Keep going up until it is uncomfortable - hold it there as long as possible - come back to a comfortable tempo. The next time you come back to practice you will find that you can push the tempo a little bit further.

Another thing to do with mets. Play something at the desired tempo. Then play it again, but with the tempo cut in half (play at the same speed though, so this way your met is clicking the half-note instead of the quarter note). Cut it in half again (whole note). You can also do the vice versa - double the tempo so it is clicking the eigth note, etc.

I might be able to get a sound recording of greens up. It&#39;s a lot easier than it sounds on a forum.

EDIT: I wrote out greens for you - nice and easy. http://artelis.demonation.net/assets/images/greens.jpg

Wow thanks artelis.

Originally Posted by Riff

Aka the arrangment of music, specifically on guitar.[/b]

That&#39;s a broad question. Are you trying to arrange a song you&#39;ve written? Do you want to write a song from scratch? Or maybe you&#39;re just curious about how it&#39;s done?