Thread: Tell Me About The School System In Your Country.

Originally Posted by Neruo

It is kind of silly that every country has a totally different school system in some way. So, for great justice, lets compare school systems and laugh at Germany that count backward with grades (1= best, 10 = worst).

And now: The GREAT DUTCH SCHOOL SYSTEM

Nursery(?) school:
2 years (called 'group 1/2' of playing around with blocks and trains. Some dozen years ago it got implemented in elementary school. Ages: 4-5

Elementary school (aka "basis school"):
6 years of learning how to write, calculate and learn about cows and countries. Each year is called 'group n+2'. lol. That actually just means it starts at group 2 and ends at group 8. Because of the 'group 1/2' before it. I don't count it as the same system because playing with blocks isn't school. Ages: 6-12

High school: When children are done with elementary school, they (their parents) can choose a high school. Often in group 8 of elementary school, children take a national test, the 'cito-test' to see how retarded they really are. There are different levels of schools in the Netherlands.

- Schools I don't know the name of, you have to be rather stupid to be on these, or blind or retared, and probably learn to glue sticks to rocks. Age: 13-..? But probably most people on such schools are older when they get there, because they have been hold back in elementary school.

- VMBO : The average in the Netherlands. A 4-year education. I don't really know how it works, I guess some people just work at McDonalds or in a shop or become car mechanic after this. Age: 13-16

- HAVO: Above average, not bad. 5 years of eduction. More theoretical then VMBO. Ages: 13-17.

- VWO: The highest level of schools. 6 years of education. There is a sub-division in the VWO, however the only real difference is that 'Gymnasium' (nothing to do with sports) has Greek and Latin and 'Atheneum' does not. ages: 13-18.

After high school:

VMBO --> MBO : 2 years of profession-orientated education. I think car-mechanic is such a study, or cook or something.

HAVO --> HBO: Pretty decent 3/4-year eduction, stuff varying from nursing to biochemistry and electronics.

VWO --> University: 4-5 years of universal education. Very theoretical. Full of smart people, or at least, that is the idea.

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YEAH.

That took long. Ah well. Isn't it interesting to know? By the way, if I have made a mistake somewhere, feel free to correct me.[/b]

Not be to be a wise ass but it sounds like your speaking down on some of the 'lower' levels of schooling so let me rephrase your post in a less crude fashion hehe

Dutch secondary school and post-secondary school system:

The school you dont know the name of: This isnt for 'retarded' or 'stupid' people. Its just for people who need a little extra guidance and help from their teachers. Often people who need to be motivated or have problems at home. Just dont say theyre retarded because theyre really not. As for blind people, they dont go here, unless they fall into that category. Blind people usually attend to a special institute in their primary school days, after which they move on to regular secondary school. Quite often HAVO or VWO. Because blind people arn't retarded

VMBO: This is actually a really broad level of education. VMBO is split up into 4 different levels, from really practical, vocational training to more theory heavy training. The ones attending the 4th level of VMBO often goe to HAVO afterwards. VMBO is not for dumb people either. Its for people who prefer learning more about a job than studying lots of theory. After attending one of the levels of VMBO, or a part of HAVO, students generally move to 'MBO' which is vocational training.

HAVO/VWO: you said it

MBO: Vocational training split up into 4 levels yet again. These are the 4st four levels of post-secondary school training. HBO being the 5th, and university the 6th. MBO isnt just people who work at mcdonalds or car mechanics, there are actually quite some talented people there. MBO (especially on lvl 4) actually delivers managers (bedrijfsleiders), nurses, social workers and proffesional soldiers and police officers. DEfinitely not mcjob or unimportant Id say. After completing mbo lvl 4, a student can attend college (HBO, higher vocational training). It takes between 1 and 4 years depending on the level.

HBO: 4 years of training. You become a bachelor of arts of science afterwards, after 2 more years you can get a master degree. After one year of hbo one can also attend university if desired.

University: These days the difference between hbo and univeristy is getting smaller. But university is still more heavy on the theory. Its really academic, unlike HBO. After 3 years you receive a bachelor degree, and another year, or two years gets you a master

That said on occasion you can follow sped up courses which allow you to get a diploma alot quicker. Such as MBO-plus which allows students with HAVO or VWO to get their MBO level 4 diploma in 2 years instead of 4.

There

Well Lucius, you did indeed correct the errors, thank you. I might have sounded a bit degrading towards the lower levels of education, but not like I meant that. I know some people that do 'lower' stuff, and they are all great people.

Actually, what I noticed, is that it is more remarkable that in the 'higher' levels of education you still find a lot of people that are stupid in a way other than learning. I am equally annoyed by people from all levels of education : )

No child left behind.

Originally Posted by Howietzer

No child left behind. [/b]

Yeah, no hinnies left.
I work in a school system. Sorry, I don't see that it's working. I give my best not to let any child "fall through the cracks", but not everyone does, so the weakest link causes the chain to break.

Originally Posted by Neruo

.
Actually, what I noticed, is that it is more remarkable that in the 'higher' levels of education you still find a lot of people that are stupid in a way other than learning. I am equally annoyed by people from all levels of education : )[/b]

Yeah there are annoying people and assholes in all levels of education I think a big part of it is that people from the higher levels often look down upon people in the 'lower' levels and people there, think all higher level students are uptight, arrogant snobs or eager beavers. I mean, we dont all have to be friends but we should at least respect eachother. Not saying youre not doing that by way, was just correcting your choice of words =P

Originally Posted by Howietzer

No child left behind. [/b]

No child gets ahead.

Originally Posted by Lucius

Yeah there are annoying people and assholes in all levels of education I think a big part of it is that people from the higher levels often look down upon people in the 'lower' levels and people there, think all higher level students are uptight, arrogant snobs or eager beavers. I mean, we dont all have to be friends but we should at least respect eachother. Not saying youre not doing that by way, was just correcting your choice of words =P[/b]

Yeah I agree with you. However, people like groups, and people like elitism, it is in their nature <=/

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And who worked in a school (system)? In America? How is THAT working for you? I heard the district you live in decides what school you go to? The Irony. Some competition between schools, some goddamn capitalism could really better American schools.

Wowie&#33; Well, I&#39;ll tell you about the school systems available in South Africa (as far as I know anyway).

Normally you go Grade 00, then Grade 0 (these are the learn how to cut straight and colour in properly years)

From there it&#39;s Grade 1-7 which is Primary School. The subjects here have funny names, like NS which is Natural Sciences, which is Biology and Science and Geography combined. Basically in these years you do English, Afrikaans, Maths, Biology, Science, Business and Music, then one or two schools will offer other more obscure subjects.

From there you go to a high school (if you are one of the problem learners, you&#39;ll go to like School of Achievement or Belvedere or which are considered the "retard" schools). High Schools will either offer a GDE system (in Gauteng that&#39;s my province), IEB (International Examination Board) or Cambridge (then sometimes the montesori as well).

For GDE and IEB it&#39;s all outcomes based, so you do say 12 subjects for 2 years (English, Maths, Science which is Physics and Chemistry, Biology, Accounting, Typing, Geography, History, Computers, Business, Art, and then whatever else the school offers) then from there you choose 7 subjects for your final 3 years of high school (High school is grade 7-12).

Throughout high school you can either be on standard grade, or higher grade. The pass mark on standard grade is 33%, and on higher grade is 40%.

Outcomes based learning is where throughout your schooling you have a portfolio of work, assignments projects and hand ins and whatever, and then that counts a large percentage of your mark combined with your final exams.

When you finish high school you get a matric (if you pass). You can get a basic matric, or a matric with exemption which means you can apply to a varsity.

At a university you can then get a degree, honours, masters, phd etc. and you can also go to a college and get a diploma or whatever is offered.

The Cambridge system is where you write IGCSEs in form 3 (high school is then from form1-5) and then either 6 AS levels, or 3A levels and 3 AS levels in form 5 depending on your ability.

Cambridge is generally regarded as higher than the rest.

Originally Posted by Neruo

It is kind of silly that every country has a totally different school system in some way. So, for great justice, lets compare school systems and laugh at Germany that count backward with grades (1= best, 10 = worst).
[...]etc[/b]

So Neruo, what level of education are you currently on?

Originally Posted by octoberchild

Yeah, no hinnies left.
I work in a school system. Sorry, I don&#39;t see that it&#39;s working. I give my best not to let any child "fall through the cracks", but not everyone does, so the weakest link causes the chain to break.[/b]

Yaaa. It sounds good on paper. OR in political speeches.

What is your guys take on school vouchers?
I am undecided on this one.

I absolutely HATE no child left behind.

They focus attention on the kids who don&#39;t give two craps about school, and use less time on people who actually care about learning, excelling, etc.

It&#39;s not like these kids they&#39;re "helping" will all of a sudden become academics or something, and if you see these kids, they truly don&#39;t care.

Originally Posted by TweaK

So Neruo, what level of education are you currently on?[/b]

Shabam, University : ) - I just surprised myself for not hopefully anticipation for someone to ask that so I could show off.

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Also, dang, South Africa has a special system. Grade 00. Also "
Throughout high school you can either be on standard grade, or higher grade. The pass mark on standard grade is 33%, and on higher grade is 40%." If 100% is the max score, are that low requirements or hard tests?

And I wonder, how many countries have such a strong division between levels as us Dutch? The English school system is a big high-school, if I am not mistaking. (In the dutch system, often all the &#39;kinds&#39; of schools are mixed in one big school, but some are separate VMBOs or VWOs).

English System

4-11 Primary School:

The standard early education thing, the structure changes slightly with each year so that pupils aren&#39;t too shocked when they go on to Secondary School. In year two (which is the third year strangely enough) pupils sit the first lot of SATs, then the second lot of SATs at the end of year 6.

11-16 Secondary School:

Pupils are taught in a similar style to American highschools, multiple teachers in multipe subjects. At the end of year 9 (the years continue from primary school) pupils sit the final SATs, which grades decide which papers you enter for the next set of exams at the end of year 11, the GCSEs. GCSE&#39;s are taught though years 10 and 11 with &#39;coursework&#39; which is usually an essay or two per subject making up a bit of the grade, the exams the rest.

That&#39;s the end of compulsary education. From there people can either drop out, go to a Sixth Form or to a College t o do a vocational degree.

Sixth Form:

In Sixth Form (which is often refered to as college), pupils sit the AS exams in year 12 and the A2 exams in year 13, which are then combined to form an A Level grade. Most students take four AS levels and three A2 levels, usually they drop the subject they&#39;ve done worst in. AS/A2&#39;s are two part exam, one part coursework. From here pupil can aply to University at the beggining of year 13, the Universities make offers depending on predicted grades. The conditions of these offers however (I hold an AAB offer for English right now) must be met though the final A Level results.

College:

Vocational degree/aprenticeships for people not really into the usuall school enviroment. For those who want to get into building/enginiering etc. really. Some of these qualifications will be taken by Universities as substitutes for A Levels if a student wants to go onto higher education, though they&#39;re often looked down upon. the CHACHE course (child care) is an example of a qualification taken.

University:

These can be separated into three categories really. Oxbridge (Oxford and Cambridge), the two universities with the highest esteeme. Very hard to get into indeed. On average they get about 300 aplicants per place they have on a course. So most don&#39;t bother. Redbricks, universities given the status before the late 1960&#39;s, these tend to be high in employers esteeme and are the destination of a large number of university students, they vary in status however. Finally, Ex-Pollys, which are Polytechnic instituted given full university status. They tend to be easier to get into because of this, but can be equally as good as the other type of universities. For example, ARU outperforms Oxford University(&#33 in English, which makes it a fine choice and is well looked upon by employers. At University, students usally stay for three years to do a bachelors degree, before either leaving or staying another year to to a masters (though there is no rule saying you have to do your masters where you did your bach)

So that&#39;s our system, I quite like it myself. It gets rid of the deadwood at age 16 (and gives them enough qualifications to get a job, what with the GCSEs) and lets everyone else do their thing.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, dang, South Africa has a special system. Grade 00. Also "
Throughout high school you can either be on standard grade, or higher grade. The pass mark on standard grade is 33%, and on higher grade is 40%." If 100% is the max score, are that low requirements or hard tests?[/b]

No, the requirements are low. It&#39;s nearly impossible to fail, in order to get less than 40% you have to be a quite challenged. One of the main reasons the levels have dropped so much is because of black economic empowerment we have in South Africa.

Previously disadvantaged people (black people basically, I&#39;m sure you all know about apartheid) are now given a chance to get an education and get decent jobs where they couldn&#39;t before. The problem is that it&#39;s not the previously disadvantaged people who benefit, it&#39;s the stupid people.

In South Africa, excellence isn&#39;t promoted. Being average is promoted.

Originally Posted by 13redfan

No, the requirements are low. It&#39;s nearly impossible to fail, in order to get less than 40% you have to be a quite challenged. One of the main reasons the levels have dropped so much is because of black economic empowerment we have in South Africa.

Previously disadvantaged people (black people basically, I&#39;m sure you all know about apartheid) are now given a chance to get an education and get decent jobs where they couldn&#39;t before. The problem is that it&#39;s not the previously disadvantaged people who benefit, it&#39;s the stupid people.

In South Africa, excellence isn&#39;t promoted. Being average is promoted.[/b]

Dang, that is pretty bad. But it is a though situation. The black people have a huge disadvantage in general.. you can&#39;t just let them all fail. They should make schools for people that are set back, that have problems or something, regardless of race, and in those school they should work hard to get everyone up to a reasonable level. The &#39;normal&#39; school should be more hard then they are now I guess : / I would get increadably lazy

Yeah, no child left behind is pretty lame. They are basically saying "Hey, let&#39;s all be as smart as our stupidest person&#33;"

I am not going to describe the scottish education system. Rest assured I believe it&#39;s better than the ones you&#39;velisted but maybe you&#39;re all negative about it.

But, about a point you all basically made. At my school we have referrals - this is not a hard concept to understand. If you&#39;re bad, you get a negative referral given to your guidance teacher. If you&#39;re good you get a positive referral.

I have never ever ever had a negative referral. Well actually maybe once but the teacher was an asshole and I wouldnt stand for that. But all the prats have had about 20. Of course, i have never had a POSITIVE referral either because I cant really be exceptionally good when my already-exceptionally-good (and modest) record is "average" for me.

So a bunch of MORONS got recognised for their &#39;good behaviour&#39; which was a million times worse than any intelligent person would stand for.

I was a bit pissed off.


The good thing is though, that the important people in the school recognised the talent i have in certain areas and I got the necessary support to advance to a level more suited to my capability when it comes to things such as computing thanks to those people. Of course, today, the person who first recognised that left the school and moved on, but that&#39;s another story.


p.s. I know I sound arrogant here but frankly it is the truth. except for the "exceptionally good record" bit which was a joke. Apart from that though&#33;

Kindergarten

Junior
Senior

Ages 4-5

Elementary School
Grades 1 - 8

Ages 6-13

French classes mandatory.

High School
Grades 9 - 12

Ages 14-17 (Except for failures )

Semester system. Two Semesters per year. 8 Semester total. 4 classes per semester.

Credit System. 32 Available credits. 30 required to graduate. Two "break" or "Spare" periods can be taken in Gr. 12
40 Community Service Hours required to graduate. French Gr. 9 is mandatory.

College and University
College and University are not the same. They depend on the type of job you&#39;ll be going for.

College - Focuses on a more focused and specific job path. More or less training in a specific field. Limited Knowledge gain in other fields. Certain jobs require a college education and teachings in that jobs field.

University - A more broad learning experience. Giving more options. Less focus on a specific path. More or less an extension to more learning. Certain jobs require a university education rather than a college education.

This is for Ontario, Canada as far as I know. I&#39;m not sure if it works the same in other parts of Canada.

I&#39;ll be happy to expand if there are any questions.

Originally Posted by Howie

No child left behind.

our debate topic for class was "no child left behind leaves children behind"

pro won every time