Thread: The Brains capacity?

Probably not infinite, unless you have one of those disorders where you remember absolutely everything -- if so, then as much as one can be exposed to in a day (you might say "infinite").

I'd say the answer depends on the person. By "absorb" I get the sense of "take in," "remember," "learn," so I think those who concentrate, remember and retain in the long term can be said to absorb more.

Of course it isn't infinite. That would require an infinite number of synapses. We 'only' have about 100,000,000,000,000.

Assuming that we have unlimited technological capacity and don't mind about completely destroying brain function, I suppose the answer would therefore be around 100 terabits.

Originally Posted by Xei

I suppose the answer would therefore be around 100 terabits.

Is it possible for the brain to take in that much in just one day?

edit: And how exactly do we reduce our experiences to bits like this? How many bits is one complete picture of everything that you see right now?

It's possible with unlimited technological capacity, ie. some sort of machine which can physically alter each individual synapse; that's why I added that condition. As to what we can actually do naturally in a day; I don't know.

A bit is a measure of one unit being either on or off. This is how computers store information. It is thought that the 'units' in our brain are synapses, which, in a simplistic manner, can either be attatched to a neuron or not.

If you really wanted you could take every single atom of the brain and line them up in binary, to store huge amounts of information, even though it might not be possible to read it, physically. However then it wouldn't really be a brain any more.

Everything we see right now; I suppose it'd be about the same as the number of neurons in the retina. However inside the brain this is 'reduced' to its essential pieces, essentially forming a much smaller 'jpeg' of your vision. This act of interpretation is essentially 'seeing'.

I think the brain is more limited in the teaching method than in how much it, itself can take in. So it can learn anything given an advanced enough teaching method.

Originally Posted by Alric

I think the brain is more limited in the teaching method than in how much it, itself can take in. So it can learn anything given an advanced enough teaching method.

an interesting point you raised.

but would a better than average teaching method be one that incorporates more senses and awareness into the information being taught?

Have you come across the locii method?

Try to memorise this list of objects in 30 seconds:

Cat
Tree
Door
Tap
Box
Shelf
Laptop
Man
Fridge
Curtain
Fire
Train
Money
Brush
Guitar
Lemon
Star

Now try it like this; form connections in your mind between objects. For example, a cat gets stuck in a tree. Somebody chops the tree down to make a wooden door. You turn the doorhandle and water starts spurting out as if it's a tap.

You'll find that using this method you can memorise a list with ease of literally hundreds of objects.

Unfortunately it's been largely lost to time. It was discovered by the Greeks I think, but back in the day, the Christian rulers of Britain stomped out its use because it encouraged 'use of the imagination to form ridiculous images' and it never really recovered. Pretty typical.

Originally Posted by Xei

Have you come across the locii method?

Try to memorise this list of objects in 30 seconds:

Cat
Tree
Door
Tap
Box
Shelf
Laptop
Man
Fridge
Curtain
Fire
Train
Money
Brush
Guitar
Lemon
Star

Now try it like this; form connections in your mind between objects. For example, a cat gets stuck in a tree. Somebody chops the tree down to make a wooden door. You turn the doorhandle and water starts spurting out as if it's a tap.

You'll find that using this method you can memorise a list with ease of literally hundreds of objects.

Unfortunately it's been largely lost to time. It was discovered by the Greeks I think, but back in the day, the Christian rulers of Britain stomped out its use because it encouraged 'use of the imagination to form ridiculous images' and it never really recovered. Pretty typical.

wow that's pretty sad, but hey at least we still have some left

Actually, your brain isn't a computer, it can hold much more then 100 terabits. You have 100 000 000 000 000 synapses. Every single synaps of those is connect to at least 1000 others.

A memory is a path that's followed through the brain. So if you make a quick calculation, you can hold about 1000^100 000 000 000 000 bits of memory. Also, your memories are not absolute, they are usually relative, torn apart. It's quite hard to explain. Your memories 'feed' on other memories, combine them.

Your memory is in no way comparable to a computer. Computers are glorified calculators, and the brain sucks at calculating.

Unfortunately, I don't have the book right here, but in "Flow" Csikszentmihalyi made the point that psychological consciousness probably recognizes around 7 subjectively identifiable separate pieces of information per second on average. (This coincides with the number of discrete unconnected pieces of information you can keep in short-term memory)
This is a massive oversimplification and leaves lots of questions open, but it gets the point across.

How much you can "absorb" is not a question that can be answered in a satisfying way because - as has been said - the brain doesn't work like a computer, it doesn't function as a bit-based system. A "piece of information" in psychological terms is pretty unclear. Several pieces of information can often be saved as a single piece using simple techniques. Bitwise, it's still the same amount of information, but it's stored more efficiently.

The cacpacity of long-term memory is held to be so large that it's impossible to exceed in a lifetime.

7 per second?

I'm not sure if you're confusing yourself but there's a very well known result discovered about the brain which says that you can only hold about 7 separate facts in your short term memory without any getting 'squeezed out'.

Actually, your brain isn't a computer, it can hold much more then 100 terabits. You have 100 000 000 000 000 synapses. Every single synaps of those is connect to at least 1000 others.

A memory is a path that's followed through the brain. So if you make a quick calculation, you can hold about 1000^100 000 000 000 000 bits of memory. Also, your memories are not absolute, they are usually relative, torn apart. It's quite hard to explain. Your memories 'feed' on other memories, combine them.

Your memory is in no way comparable to a computer. Computers are glorified calculators, and the brain sucks at calculating.

No...

The brain has 100,000,000,000 neurons which are connected to about 1000 others via synapses.

And I have no idea where you got that random number from but it's completely insane. 10^3*10^14 is more than the number you'd get if you counted all the atoms in the universe and then multiplied it by itself one trillion times...

Excuse me, I made a mistake with the neuron/synapse thing.

Did I mention yet that we can't calculate the brains power, because nobody actually knows how memories are stored exactly?

And yes, the capacity of your brain is somewhere around infinity.

Um why..? 10^14 synapses means 10^14 bits, not infinity.

Somewhere around infinity = infinity. For infinite capacity you would need infinite matter, clearly.

Originally Posted by Xei

Of course it isn't infinite. That would require an infinite number of synapses. We 'only' have about 100,000,000,000,000.

But it is not the number of synapses that determines memory, but the number of possibly combinations of connections between the neurons. Up until now, the limit of human memory has still not been met, so as far as we know, the limit is infinite.

quote from a post on another forum:

A recent paper on this subject is Discovering the Capacity of Human Memory, Wang, et al, 2003, Brain and Mind, vol 4, no 2, p. 189-198.

The authors estimate the human brain's memory capacity at 10^8432 bits (yes, that's no typo).

Their basis for this: each possible neural connection path constitutes a memory bit. Once a given pathway is activated, a persistent change is somehow made such that re-activation triggers recalls the memory element (bit?). Thus the maximum capacity is given by the total possible number of connection paths.

Estimates of # neurons vary from about 100 to 500 billion. The average number of synapses per neuron vary from about 3,000 to 7,000. Each possible pathway from any synapse to any other synapse in the brain constitutes a potential unique memory element. The formula for calculating this is simple -- just calculate the number of combinations. We'll conservatively assume 100 billion neurons of 3,000 synapses each:

connection possibilities (unique pathways) = n! / m! * (n - m)!, where
n = number of neurons
m = average # of connections between neurons

= 10^11! / 3000! * (10^11 - 3000)!

It takes a special program to calculate such large factorials, but the result is 10^8432.

http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/w...Vol4.2-HMC.pdf


I don't know if anyone heard of the art of memory, a sort of advanced mnemonics, but it basically demonstrates how each of us our memory capacity is near infinite. (infite meaning, the limit has still not been reached). And the only thing it takes to make use of this near infinite capacity is practise.

Afaik, nobody in the entire existance of humanity has ever reached an "Out Of Memory" error :p

Originally Posted by Xei

7 per second?

I'm not sure if you're confusing yourself but there's a very well known result discovered about the brain which says that you can only hold about 7 separate facts in your short term memory without any getting 'squeezed out'.

Which is what I put in brackets to avoid confusion.

Originally Posted by Xei

Have you come across the locii method?

Try to memorise this list of objects in 30 seconds:

Cat
Tree
Door
Tap
Box
Shelf
Laptop
Man
Fridge
Curtain
Fire
Train
Money
Brush
Guitar
Lemon
Star

Now try it like this; form connections in your mind between objects. For example, a cat gets stuck in a tree. Somebody chops the tree down to make a wooden door. You turn the doorhandle and water starts spurting out as if it's a tap.

You'll find that using this method you can memorise a list with ease of literally hundreds of objects.

Unfortunately it's been largely lost to time. It was discovered by the Greeks I think, but back in the day, the Christian rulers of Britain stomped out its use because it encouraged 'use of the imagination to form ridiculous images' and it never really recovered. Pretty typical.

Yup very useful technique, however it has been recovered and it's been perfected by Giordani Bruno and Guillio Camillio, it's called the art of memory. www.pmemory.com for a free ebook.

By using this technique, encoding information into some kind of dreams in order to memorize the information, I can remember the order of a whole shuffled deck of cards for example, in only a few minutes, whereas before discovering this technique this would have been impossible for me no matter how much time I got.

Oh okay, didn't read / interpret that.

But it is not the number of synapses that determines memory, but the number of possibly combinations of connections between the neurons. Up until now, the limit of human memory has still not been met, so as far as we know, the limit is infinite.

That calculation is extremely dubious. You would need a 'reading' device capable of interpreting every single combination, which would itself need to be hugely complex.

It's just like saying that a computer with 1GB of memory can store 2^10,000,000,000 pieces of information... nonsense.

And in no case will the capacity reach infinity. No matter what expression you come up with, it will never equal infinity for any finite value of neurons/synapses.

Unless the expression is recursive But ok agreed, I meant near infinite as in the capacity being so big that it can't be filled up in just one life time.