• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 8 of 8
    Like Tree3Likes
    • 1 Post By Kruse
    • 2 Post By freedomfighter

    Thread: Dreams are only random images, our waking minds are the one that creates the stories?

    1. #1
      My Stunt Double Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Populated Wall Veteran First Class
      Carrot's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2011
      LD Count
      30+
      Gender
      Posts
      3,015
      Likes
      3664
      DJ Entries
      70

      Dreams are only random images, our waking minds are the one that creates the stories?

      Sorry for the long title, I really can't summarise it any shorter. I was browsing through a dream article when I came across this passage.

      "More recently, around 1973, researchers Allan Hobson and Robert McCarley set forth another theory that threw out the old psychoanalytical ideas. Their research on what was going in the brain during sleep gave them the idea that dreams were simply the result of random electrical brain impulses that pulled imagery from traces of experience stored in the memory.

      They hypothesize that these images don't form the stories that we remember as our dreams. Instead, our waking minds, in trying to make sense of the imagery, create the stories without our even realizing it -- simply because the brain wants to make sense of what it has experienced. While this theory, known as the activation-synthesis hypothesis, created a big rift in the dream research arena because of its leap away from the accepted theories, it has withstood the test of time and is still one of the more prominent dream theories."

      From: HowStuffWorks "Theories of Dreams"

      So basically it's trying to say we dream of random images while our conscious minds are the one that's piecing everything together to make it into a story. I wonder how true is that? I must say if that's the case our conscious mind isn't doing a great job because there are still random transitions in our recall.

      I believe many of you had vivid experiences of a dream, it could be short but at that moment you know it was a whole sequence of events happening instead of just random images happening one after the other. There were times when I was dreaming and I could recall everything perfectly while I was still in the dream, the vividness was so intense it was like I was living a story out instead of just images splattering onto me one after the other.

      And if all that doesn't show that we're not just dreaming of images, lucid dreaming proves it even better when we have control of the dreams and we know what is happening.

      I'm perplexed, is there any scientific saying to back it up that we're only dreaming in images not stories?
      Last edited by Carrot; 12-09-2012 at 07:43 PM.

    2. #2
      Member Achievements:
      Tagger Second Class Created Dream Journal 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Booney's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2012
      Gender
      Posts
      178
      Likes
      141
      DJ Entries
      16
      I think this could still apply to non-lucids though.
      This is also how I think what happens when people say they've dreamt about an experience that lasts for week, months or years.

      But when you dream in a lucid way don't you kind of activate the whole story making part of the brain or something?

      I don't know.

    3. #3
      I'd rather be dreaming Achievements:
      1 year registered Tagger First Class Populated Wall Vivid Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV 5000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Iokheira's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      LD Count
      17
      Gender
      Location
      Texas
      Posts
      662
      Likes
      1978
      DJ Entries
      218
      I've thought about this theory some and I've always had a bit of a problem with it. It seems to be kind of hard to prove. Though, I have a question: If it is just random neurons firing, how come there are recurring dreams? How come some of the same elements show up consistently?

      And as a personal anecdote, what about those dreams that do have a bit of a plot, like characters talking to each other and going places for a purpose? Recalling that the way it happened wasn't imposing any story or background to my dream, unless it happened in the briefest of instances when I was waking up.
      “Never forget that once upon a time, in an unguarded moment, you recognized yourself as a friend.”

    4. #4
      Member Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran Second Class

      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      LD Count
      2-4 / Week
      Gender
      Location
      Fyn, Denmark
      Posts
      98
      Likes
      21
      Hey Carrot!

      I am actually just in the process of reading Steven LaBerge's "Exploring the world of Lucid Dreaming". LaBerge says that dreams are "products of an interaction between various parts of the mind including the conscius, preconcius, and unconscius; schemas (behaviour patterns in different situations), motivations, and expectations interact in the development of the dream; and there is no predestination in dreams. Dreams respond as readily to the lowest as to the highest motivation, to expectations of disaster or "ad astra"."

      Not sure this is actual evidence, but the interaction between the different parts of the brain make me believe that dreams are created by different parts of the mind. Actually LaBerge even gives examples of how this could occur. Say I remember an image from today, or any other day, while I'm sleeping, my mind will then "create" what I do and behave based on my "schemas" and motivations so I get to do what I want to do, and not something completely random. If you know what I mean? This is of course not true every time, since sometimes you do dream random stuff.
      Carrot likes this.

    5. #5
      My Stunt Double Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Populated Wall Veteran First Class
      Carrot's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2011
      LD Count
      30+
      Gender
      Posts
      3,015
      Likes
      3664
      DJ Entries
      70
      Quote Originally Posted by Kruse View Post
      Hey Carrot!

      I am actually just in the process of reading Steven LaBerge's "Exploring the world of Lucid Dreaming". LaBerge says that dreams are "products of an interaction between various parts of the mind including the conscius, preconcius, and unconscius; schemas (behaviour patterns in different situations), motivations, and expectations interact in the development of the dream; and there is no predestination in dreams. Dreams respond as readily to the lowest as to the highest motivation, to expectations of disaster or "ad astra"."

      Not sure this is actual evidence, but the interaction between the different parts of the brain make me believe that dreams are created by different parts of the mind. Actually LaBerge even gives examples of how this could occur. Say I remember an image from today, or any other day, while I'm sleeping, my mind will then "create" what I do and behave based on my "schemas" and motivations so I get to do what I want to do, and not something completely random. If you know what I mean? This is of course not true every time, since sometimes you do dream random stuff.
      Hey Kruse.

      I actually believe that if you backtrack every dream you remember, you are able to understand why you dream of certain things, they could be things you have encountered or the last thought you had, which is why some people think that dreams are a good way to understand and solve your problems, problems that you hadn't notice before. Although I have no idea why some dreams manifested into something so out of the world that you've never seen before.

    6. #6
      Member Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran Second Class

      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      LD Count
      2-4 / Week
      Gender
      Location
      Fyn, Denmark
      Posts
      98
      Likes
      21
      @Carrot
      On the other hand though, if you think about it, have you ever thought or seen incredible things that are impossible in the real world? Say, you've watched Avatar, played video games or WHATEVER. Basically, this stuff is "created" through computers and whatnot, and I actually enjoy watching things that are "different" just because it's different. So maybe this too is actually a motivation or wish for dreaming that the mind then recreates? Of course I can't say the same for lucid nightmares which is why you can't say that dreams are created SOLELY by what I quoted by LaBerge further up in the thread. There's more to it :p

    7. #7
      Lurker
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Posts
      1
      Likes
      2
      In actual fact Hobson's theory is now thought of as pretty outdated. From his researched he surmised that the signals which create the preconditions for dreaming originated from an ancient part of the brain called the Pons. These signals then passed through our more advanced part of the brain which is resposible for creating logic, the forebrain, which as you stated, makes sense of those random signals orignating from the pons and turns them into dream narrative and visual hallucinations.

      However, subsenquently a scientist called Solms discovered that patients who had damage to the Pons where still able to dream, however, damage to a specific area of the frontal lobes did prevent patients from dreaming. The area which is critical for dreaming to occur is actually the pleasure centre of the brain. This led Solms, who was a proponent of Freudian dream theory to speculate that there was scope for the Feudian idea that dreams did have an underlying psychological meaning and in fact was not a meaningless firing of neurons being made sense of by the logical paart of our brain.

      Another very popular theory is that dreams are a kind of rehearsal for real life threats and that dreaming is crucial to developing appropriate motor and social skills used in everyday life....
      Carrot and Oceandrop like this.

    8. #8
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Jabre's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Gender
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      355
      Likes
      180
      DJ Entries
      34
      Quote Originally Posted by Booney View Post
      I think this could still apply to non-lucids though.
      This is also how I think what happens when people say they've dreamt about an experience that lasts for week, months or years.

      But when you dream in a lucid way don't you kind of activate the whole story making part of the brain or something?

      I don't know.
      yeah. When you lucid dream, access to long term memory, the frontal lobe, and logic are turned on. It is almost paradoxical; your brain functions as it does during waking life, yet you are asleep...

    Similar Threads

    1. All I could get from a nap where random images
      By Siul in forum Attaining Lucidity
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 08-08-2012, 08:36 PM
    2. Replies: 9
      Last Post: 08-10-2010, 02:51 AM
    3. Replies: 2
      Last Post: 01-28-2010, 08:06 AM
    4. Open minds - dreams - question
      By light24 in forum Beyond Dreaming
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 05-11-2008, 12:37 PM
    5. help with random images
      By undothemystery in forum Beyond Dreaming
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 02-06-2006, 02:35 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •