Thread: Conscious dreaming?

It happens if you wake up during a REM phase while a dream is in progress. Usually we wake up after REM, when dreaming is done. Actually most people experience this fairy frequently I think but just don't notice it. I know it's happened to me countless times, but it wasn't until after I started studying lucid dreaming techniques and paying more attention to those in-between states of consciousness we experience when falling asleep and waking up that I started to really notice it. There definitely is a period when you're awake but the dreaming mind is still functioning and they sort of overlap for a while until something wakes you more fully. And if you lie still and keep your eyes closed you can experience it strongly (assuming you wake during REM on that day). What ends it abruptly is either moving, opening your eyes, or starting to think about daytime stuff. Alarms usually kill that state dead in an instant, as do other people talking to you or anything pressing or urgent occurring to you. You have to sort of remain in a dreamy, half-asleep state (something most people never do anymore after they're kids).

It wasn't a lucid dream exactly, though in a way the term sort of fits because you were dreaming and conscious at the same time. For it to really be a lucid dream you need to be asleep but aware that you're dreaming. I don't know of a term for what you described, maybe somebody else does.

Interesting well thanks and I have something to add. You said it happens to you frequently can it happen before and after sleep? Because in that case I have come across a term called hypnotic cognition. That might be what it's called, in case you don't know it's where your brain loses it's ability to unconsciously ground your thoughts in logic and principle? Ever noticed how it will takes you a second to come up with a very random idea not based in reason? That's because your brain wants to keep logic based unconsciously even if you consciously don't want to. In hypnotic cognition the brain stops unconsciously grounding your thoughts in logic and reason, and a stream of strange random thoughts adding on to one another with stream through your mind. This happens to me very often all I need to do is be slightly tired and rest for a few minutes and I will enter that state of mind shortly. I have thought of a lot of strange things in that state, a flying demon that sheds it's skin every time I get a text, how a gold storage in a game somehow has something to do with my own self worth, and becoming extremely paranoid I could not remember my memories because every time I tried to visualize it I ended up visualizing a minimap from a game instead. Those are just a few things I have thought of in that state. I do not know if that occurs in REM state it may though as it only happens if you try to go to sleep. So if this fits into what were talking about then I to have done this many times, just never to the extent it was described in my first post and never when I wake up only as I fall asleep.

Hypnotic cognition? I can't find anything about that (and you did say "that might be what it's called", so it sounds like you're not sure?)

Are you sure what you're talking about isn't called hypnagogic hallucinations? That's the name for dreamlike imagery that you begin to see as you're falling asleep. It's not quite the same as what this thread is about, which is dreams continuing after you wake up - hypnagogic hallucinations have a different quality to them - for one they're usually still images, at least at first, with no sound, and they start off by looking transparent, like a reflection n a window at night. As you drop deeper into sleep they start to look more solid and take on color and then begin to move, and this is what becomes a dream (assuming you're falling asleep directly into a REM phase, which you don't usually do at the beginning of the night, but can if you wake up and go back to sleep or when you take a nap an hour or two after getting up).

Ok, there's another similar term called Hypnopompic hallucinations - that's one I've seen around here a few times but never really looked into it. It's similar to hypnagogic hallucinations, but apparently a little different: Article.

Neither one of them actually sound exactly like what I've experienced, which is what you said - the dream keeps going after you wake up. These are described as still images with no story. I've experienced that too, usually as I'm falling asleep though, not waking up.

I don't agree with that site that it means you have any kind of sleep disorder (well, they kind of said that, and then they said it doesn't… talk about covering all your bases!) Around here we talk a lot about these weird near-sleep states of consciousness, and it turns out anybody can experience them if they only learn to pay attention to them. Most people never do, so I suppose that's why the medical industry can't get good statistics on it - most people report that they never experience this stuff when in reality they do but don't know it.

I do not know if you are a lucid dream correct me if I'm wrong but I assume no because you don't have a LD count. I may be wrong again but my understanding of hypnogogic hallucinations "which I've been in hundreds of times" can only happen when your in sleep paralysis "which I also had hundreds of times". What I referred to is a little different it's a altered mind state but on the spectrum it occurs before sleep paralysis and hypnogogic hallucinations. Apparently it's not exactly called hypnogogic cognition scientifically here's a link to it. Hypnagogia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On that page scroll down and open the tab on cognitive and affective phenomena. It'll describe pretty much the same thing I described to you. I suppose that is the same state hypnotists need you to be in to work with you. It's similar to daydreaming, anyways yes this is not the same thing as what I started my topic on it's just something on a similar subject. I am somewhat of a retired lucid dreamer however I'm determined to get back into it as soon as I can. (I stopped because I felt like I was doing it to much and I was starting to lose touch with reality somewhat example being paranoid I'm in a dream even though I'm definitely not).

No, I'm not a lucid dream, but I have had them!

What made you think Hypnogogia occurs only in SP? It's the state of consciousness existing between waking and sleep, explained right at the top of the article you just linked. A little later it says it also occurs during SP.

Originally Posted by Shugo332

I do not know if you are a lucid dream correct me if I'm wrong but I assume no because you don't have a LD count. I may be wrong again but my understanding of hypnogogic hallucinations "which I've been in hundreds of times" can only happen when your in sleep paralysis "which I also had hundreds of times". What I referred to is a little different it's a altered mind state but on the spectrum it occurs before sleep paralysis and hypnogogic hallucinations. Apparently it's not exactly called hypnogogic cognition scientifically here's a link to it. Hypnagogia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On that page scroll down and open the tab on cognitive and affective phenomena. It'll describe pretty much the same thing I described to you. I suppose that is the same state hypnotists need you to be in to work with you. It's similar to daydreaming, anyways yes this is not the same thing as what I started my topic on it's just something on a similar subject. I am somewhat of a retired lucid dreamer however I'm determined to get back into it as soon as I can. (I stopped because I felt like I was doing it to much and I was starting to lose touch with reality somewhat example being paranoid I'm in a dream even though I'm definitely not).

Sorry, but HH and SP are not always at the same time. I dont know where you got that from unless it was just personal experience.

To the original post/question... it sounds like an interesting experience and I have to agree with darkmatters, it can happen before falling asleep as well. I do this almost exclusively now when I want to lucid dream. I go from a scenario that is completely made up using visualization and a target story line an then let that take me into a LD. Somewhere right in the middle of the two, I get what you described.

Actually, thinking about it a bit, I do see where you might get that impression - because you probably experience it only when in SP (usually anyway). It sounds like you might have the actual sleep paralysis disorder, which causes it to happen frequently. Most people experience it only a couple of times, often when they're kids (I did).

Oh no I know hypnogogia doesn't only occur in sleep paralysis maybe I accidently said that from a auto correct (I'm typing from my phone). But wouldn't it not be hypnogogic hallucinations, rather a hallucination induced from being tired or something if not in sleep paralysis? Sure I've hallucinated out of sleep paralysis before but hallucinations during sleep paralysis are far more intense. When ever I'm in sleep paralysis many things may happen, often times I'll feel myself being dragged, I may see with my eyes closed, I may hear people speak to me when there not there. All of those things and more disseapear immediately after I regain movement. Doing my own research on this topic I came to the conclusion my experience is how sleep paralysis works in general. I have pulled some interesting things with sleep paralysis, one time while being dragged I suddenly felt lifted into the air swinging back and forth then with one big throw I felt myself tumbling off my bed. When I opened my eyes I was in fact on the floor and which means I successfully pulled off a WILD. Another time I was able to see with my other senses, I could not see normally but I was able to sense what was around me and even pick up details of what it looked like. At that point I sensed a presence in my room "shadow people", so while paralyzed in my bed I defended myself by picturing a golden globe with golden wind blowing through it. A second later I felt a golden light over my body and could hear wind gently blowing around me. It felt very mystical and while still unable to move I felt myself lifted up and my body started hovering in the middle of the globe. At that point the shadow people were all standing around my bed standing there staring at me. One of them reached out with it's claw like hand and attempted to grab me, contact with the globe burned it's fingers and they were unable to get to me so they continued to stand around and stare at me until I got lifted down and regained movement and everything disseapeared.

Oh, I see. Sorry also for the confusion. The golden orb is interesting. I use something similar when I want protection from a dream or while meditating to stay clear of negativity either left over from a bad day or a bad mood etc. Very cool that it just happened naturally for you though.

I think the answer might be this:

Originally Posted by Shugo332

Sure I've hallucinated out of sleep paralysis before but hallucinations during sleep paralysis are far more intense.

I think that's the real difference - they're more intense in SP and so they seem different, plus as you said, in SP there are also all the other factors - the old hag syndrome, evil presences, being dragged etc. These are also hallucinations, but of a type specifically associated only with SP.

On this website, and in relation to lucid dreaming in general as far as I know, the terms hypnagogia and hypnagogic hallucinations refer to the half-sleep state (or hypnapompic hallucinations if you're waking up and want to be really specific about it). I've never heard anybody refer to SP using any of those terms (until I found the article mentioning it, and you posted the other article backing it up). So apparently yes, technically in SP you are in a hpnogogic state and experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations, but since in SP it's much more intense and also includes the other very specific types of hallucinations, it's usually just referred to as sleep paralysis.

Yeh I normally just say sleep paralysis as well unless I'm talking about it more in depth. While I openly allow myself to enter sleep paralysis I do not exactly like it, it is uncomfortable and often creepy or scary. Here's some other experiences more on the frightening side. I woke up to my girlfriend laying next to me we actually had a whole conversation, I attempted to reach out to hug her but my arms didn't budge. I then knew I was in sleep paralysis and come to think about it she should be in work right now not here so I knew she wasn't real. I guess she read my mind then because her face turned dark and she said "not real huh?" She then tackled me and started to strangle me, I kept trying to move but couldn't then finally with a lot lf effort I rolled over and broke out of the sleep paralysis and then no one was in bed but me. Another time I was lifted out of my bed and started to levitate around my room I noted that I was able to see even though my eyes were shut. I looked near my window and noticed a small dog sitting on the window sill. (I do own a dog but it lives with my parents and is much bigger), it jumps through me like I'm a ghost and goes onto my bed I see myself laying there, then suddenly it climbs on my body and starts ripping out my throat. Another time this one made every hair on my body stand up and this probably counts a lucid nightmare from a WILD. I felt something grab both my arms and I felt myself being lifted off my bed fast but as same time as light as feather. Again I was able to see with my eyes closed and I saw two ghostly prepubescent girls about 10 years old standing on either side of me each holding one of my wrists. They had long hair and were wearing dresses they looked exactly the same, they were both grey and devoid of color I could also see through them. At that point I was a little frightened I gasped as it happened and every hair on my body stood up as they spoke to me, they said "come with us". My room blurs and next thing I know I'm standing in a attic dark only light is a small light near me. It didn't even take me a second to know I was in a dream I pretty much went into it knowing I was dreaming, however I found the dream uncomfortable I could of attempted to change it but all I really wanted was out. So I forced myself out of the dream woke up and didn't go back to bed for a while after that because I was to scared. Oh in case your wondering no me saying this has no significance I just like to share lol, plus it has to do with the subject so it brought that up into my mind.

That's cool - your experiences are fascinating. I did experience sleep paralysis a couple of times when I was a kid, or I believe that's what it was, but in my case nothing scary happened. They may actually have just been false awakenings or WILDS with some elements of SP. Your 2 girls reminded me of the twins in The Shining, even down to saying "come with us" (very similar to "Come play with us forever and ever… "). But of course they weren't gray.

I'm curious about this - when you experience SP, are you actually awake and seeing your real surroundings with some dream elements overlaid, or is everything you're seeing a simulation, like in a normal dream? You said in the one dream you floated up out of your body, so in that case obviously you weren't seeing that through your physical eyes. It's so strange to think about, because your eyes are open and can move, but the visual center of your brain is partially or maybe entirely under the control of your dreaming circuitry. It's similar to the way sounds can get into your dreams and get woven into them - you can't close your ears, hearing is passive, so there's no way to really block sounds during sleep. How would you say it works with visuals? Can you tell when what you're seeing is 'real' and when it's purely dream? Or do they mix so thoroughly that they become indistinguishable?

Mine were so long ago, its hard to remember very well, but they did occur in my bedroom and physical reality was mixed in to some extend. In fact in one I heard what was actually the sound of my dog scratching herself and her foot hitting the floor repeatedly as a series of very fast thumps, and I was looking into my closet which had the door open. I saw my robe hanging on the hook and under it a pair of boots - that was real, but it turned into a dwarf wearing a big floppy trench coat and huge clownish shoes who walked out into the center of my room (thump thump thump!) and told me in a sort of weird voice the secret of flying in dreams (which he said was to activate a certain muscle inside the abdominal area). That was it for that one, he faded and again became my robe and boots. I woke and went down the hall and talked to my mom about it, and she said that a couple minutes ago the dog had been scratching herself.

My other experience, I was trying to sleep but it was one of those impossibly perfect summer nights and the window was open and the air smelled and felt so good I couldn't sleep (or so I thought) so I got out of bed and crouched in front of the window with my chin on the sill and stared out at the stars for a while just soaking it all in, when one of the stars moved. It had been sitting there perfectly still just like all the other ones, but suddenly it slid a little distance across the sky in a perfectly straight line, an inch or so, and then stopped again to become just one of the stars - I couldn't even tell anymore which one it had been, but I was super excited now. I went down the hall and got my mom and asked her to come look at something very interesting, without telling her what it was. We kept looking, and in a while a couple of the stars did the same thing, then more and more, and they kept moving around in precise geometric patterns something like a spirograph design if you know what that is. I asked her if she was seeing the same thing I was, and with great wonder in her voice she said she was. I even corroborated that it was what appeared to be stars moving in geometric patterns across the sky, and she agreed. It was like a crazy dance of the stars, and I was sure we were seeing UFOs at the time, but it reached a crescendo and then stopped again, becoming just an ordinary summer night sky. All those stars parked themselves and became stationary again, none left or disappeared.

For may years I believed this had actually happened, until one day several years ago (many years after it had happened) I brought it up (I had learned about SP and was beginning to wonder if that's what it actually had been). She acted like I was crazy, said nothing of the sort had ever happened. What a shock!!

Incidentally, a couple of years after THAT, I had a revelation of sorts concerning the event. I had got a blu-ray player and picked up the special edition of Close Encounters (which had come out right around the same time as 'the incident' actually) and lo and behold!! I was going through all the special features and there was a TV spot that had aired way back when that showed exactly what I had witnessed - stars suddenly moving in precise geometric patterns, reaching a crescendo, and then becoming just stars again. I know that was the source of it - I had seen the spot and was so entranced by it that I dreamed about it but forgot about the commercial. It's actually much less likely that this one was SP at all, probably just a false awakening.

It was a false awakening, I have experienced pretty much everyone of these phenomens that circulate around sleep and I can distinguish between everyone very easily. Again sleep paralysis from the word "paralysis" obviously means you can not move, the only way to move in sleep paralysis while still in sleep paralysis is if you go into a dream and move that way. But you said you woke up and came to the window sill which means it's a false awakening. Trying to think of my own experiences in false awakening, oh well there was one where I was using my computer "in real life" and wanted to pull a all nighter but got so tired I fell off my chair and fell asleep under it. I woke up underneath the chair and went into the kitchen and opened the refrigerator, I took out a apple and bit into it. I noticed the bit part instantly browned and I became puzzled by that. I then woke up again in reality this time still underneath my chair. Another time "by the way I do have a tendency to pull off somewhat advanced tricks on my first try" I pulled off a self induced false awakening I learned about on the internet, it's about using your conscious imagination to set up a plot for a dream before you even dream. I suppose it's a more advanced version of the childhood method of thinking about good things so you don't have bad dreams. What I did was I waited to I was extremely tired and then went into my bed. I closed my eyes and then imagined myself get out of my bed opened my room door and walked out into the hallway, I paused I was now in a dream I continued to walk down the hallway I originally imagined and went into the kitchen to get something to eat, it was a apple again "my dreams apparently have a fixation on apples lol". Then the dream scene morphed into something more it's own something I didn't first imagine. You know speaking of creating a dream scene I actually would like to share another experience, this is probably the most advanced trick I ever pulled off. After reading about a WILD trick where you focus on the back of your eyelids while in sp to create a lucid dream I decided to get into my bed and attempt it. I was already a little exhausted to it didn't take long to enter sp. I had the usual dragging sensation hallucination though it wasn't that strong this time as it was only tugging on me, I then rolled my eyes up into my eyelids and focused. For a while obviously all I could see was black but after a minute or 2 of focusing the black turned into pure bright white as all consuming as the darkness before it was. I knew this meant I was now good to "program" my own dream. It's amazing how powerful the mind is capable of creating whole worlds in seconds that would take a programmer years to make. I created a whole landscape in about 2 seconds. First I imagined a tree then I thought "hey it's a dream might as well make the dream interesting", so I made it a candy tree complete with large pink candy hearts in place of leaves other then it was a normal tree though. The one tree I imagined split into thousands of trees that aligned the landscape and as they set in so did grass and bushs and water. I then imagined a dirt cross road and a sign by it. Still looking at it from a eagles eye viewpoint I decided I liked it and that was enough for me so then I did the last touch which was imagine myself by the signpost facing the dirt path, almost immediately I appeared where I wanted myself to be and I was now viewing the world I created through a first person view. It was quite amazing incredibly vivid more vivid then any dream matter of fact it was more vivid then reality! When I enter a lucid dream I experience a powerful sense of bravery and confidence knowing nothing can really hurt me and that I am all powerful and in any sense basically god of this world. Because of that my actions and my speech usually take on a mythical fantasy element. Such as my movements are slow even in the face of apparent danger and I barely speak at all as most of my speech that I use to control things is within my mind and when I do speak it's usually in a whisper. Basically I sort of remind myself of some kind of high wizard from a video game or something. After I soaked it in for a while I said in my mind while glancing to the right of me "a man is going to be riding from there. A second later a man started riding toward me on horseback, I walked into the middle of the road to stop him and started questioning him. Unfortunately I then lost control of the dream and lost lucidity everything I created was still there but the unconscious mind was now in control. My candy trees turned into regular trees the leaves were autumn color a horse wagon that I did not create appeared on the other side of the road. Now having no control of the dream I threw the man off his horse and got on it and started to ride away. The man ran to the wagon and three police officers in old west styled cowboy hats rode in and went to the man. I was like oh crap and started riding away but then the dream started to fade and I woke up.

Paragraphs dude PARAGRAPHS!!

I think you're right, that one was undoubtedly just an FA. You have some amazing experiences!