Thread: Caffeine Effects on REM

No, back several decades ago, when I was very social and making the rounds of the various New Age Movements, we would socialize and talk late in the night at various late night Restaurant Franchises where the staple was coffee, and only those who did not aspire to be heroes would drink the decaf. I was always amazed that it would not prevent me from eventually falling asleep when I would finally get home. But it gave me no special dreams, or I certainly would have noticed the trend. Now I drink cafeine much more rarely, but indulge on weekends where, again, I notice no improvement in my Dreaming.

I agree, caffeein makes no difference to my recall whatsoever. If my recall goes out the window, it's usually to do with something else. Coffee doesn't prevent me sleeping. In fact, if the caffeine isn't in my system before i go to bed, that is more likely to keep me awake.
A craving, if you like.
And i wouldn't touch decaf with a barge pole. I went cold turkey on coffee once, never again.

I’m not a coffee person, but I love to hear the stories people have, the so called 'coffee buzz' seems great. A lot of people I know use coffee as a stimulant to induce energy during the day. I’ve never tried it before sleep (good idea to try it out). I always think that warm milk is good before bed, there is a drink in the UK called Horlicks it relaxes you to the point of sleep and beyond.....

I think i will have to start drinking coffee and become a coffee junkie

I try and avoid things like pepsi (aint using a capital P), the amount of sugar in those things is silly, I’m sure it can disrupt your REM cycle from the sugar in your system.

well, the sugar rush in pepsi could be considered a stimulant...
with me and coffee, its more to the point of not having it, rather than having it, that sets me off.
rather like smokers and their nicotine fix...

Originally posted by irishcream
well, the sugar rush in pepsi could be considered a stimulant...
with me and coffee, its more to the point of not having it, rather than having it, that sets me off.
rather like smokers and their nicotine fix...

I was wondering if there would be any harm in just chewing on roasted coffee beans throughout the day. They actually taste quite good. But I was worried whether they might not be too harsh and sharp for the digestive tract.

I've heard, probably from the same person that told me 'fey' was a welsh word, that unsweetened bakers choculate was rich in caffeine and so every once in awhile I eat a square of that. They say it tastes bad, but I actually like it -- it tastes nutty.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


I was wondering if there would be any harm in just chewing on roasted coffee beans throughout the day. They actually taste quite good. But I was worried whether they might not be too harsh and sharp for the digestive tract.

I've heard, probably from the same person that told me 'fey' was a welsh word, that unsweetened bakers choculate was rich in caffeine and so every once in awhile I eat a square of that. They say it tastes bad, but I actually like it -- it tastes nutty.

Coffee is to me as wine is to wine coinsures.
I think there are so many flavors, brands and ways to prepare it that it can be a passion almost. As Irishcream said, "And i wouldn't touch decaf with a barge pole. I went cold turkey on coffee once, never again." ...That's great.

But I buy my coffee whole bean for freshness. I have eatin the bean itself on several occasions, Leo Volent and I did not seem to have any adverse side effects. Although everyone is differant.

But in regards to lucidity, Because it is a stimuli it prevents me from getting to sleep at all.
If you can get to sleep, you would think that by stimulating the brain it could help with the aspect of waking it up while asleep.

Well, I have a markedly more difficult time falling asleep when I've had 1-3 glasses of Coke (Not a Pepsi drinker...unless they're giving away free music.), but it doesn't seem to inhibit my REM stages. Though I wouldn't reccommend caffeine for just LDing in general. If you're going to try to WILD, then it's a good idea, but other than that, it's probably worn off long before you enter REM. 'Course, I've never had coffee, either, so I wouldn't know if it affects people differently than the smaller doses in Coke.

As for the sugar, I wouldn't think it would have any affect on sleep whatsoever. Sugar doesn't cause hyperactivity-it just gives quick bursts of energy. And for people that have a few glasses of Coke or Pepsi a day, the sugar high is virtually nonexistant. I'm told that people who drink diet drinks regularly find that after a while normal drinks seem unthinkably sweet, so they probably would view the sugar high as incredibly large as well. Again, I can't tell you for sure--I can count the diet drinks I've had in my life on one hand.

Heh...random trivia: A man once used as his defense in court for a violent crime the "Twinkie Defense": He said he'd had a Twinkie, then become so hyperactive that he couldn't control his actions. It worked, he got off the hook....

Originally posted by Howetzer

I have eatin the bean itself on several occasions...

Well, I guess if they didn't hurt you, then I might try eating a few during the day to see if I can tolerate them. I like coffee but hate the idea of making coffee myself, or going through all the trouble of joining coffee clubs at work. But if I could have a little baggy of coffee beans and just pop one once in awhile...

Originally posted by Tsen
Heh...random trivia: A man once used as his defense in court for a violent crime the \"Twinkie Defense\": He said he'd had a Twinkie, then become so hyperactive that he couldn't control his actions. It worked, he got off the hook....

That's just nuts lol

I don't like the taste of coffee (although I love the smell) so I never drink it, it's always Pepsi or tea.

I'm not sure if it's coincedence or not, but last night I remembered several small little dreams, more than I have in the past few nights, when I didn't have any pepsi before bed. I could of had more I'm sure but I got to bed really late and so only slept for about 5-6 hours.

Originally posted by Tsen
Heh...random trivia: A man once used as his defense in court for a violent crime the \"Twinkie Defense\": He said he'd had a Twinkie, then become so hyperactive that he couldn't control his actions. It worked, he got off the hook....

Wasn't that Dan White who shot Harvey Milk in San Franscisco back in the seventies. he tried the 'twinkie defense' but the court and the jury did not buy it. I suppose the flaw in his defense was that his Lawyer was not very good at reciting rhyming catch phrases like "if the glove don't fit you got to equit".

Originally posted by Leo Volont+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo Volont)</div>

I was wondering if there would be any harm in just chewing on roasted coffee beans throughout the day. *They actually taste quite good. *But I was worried whether they might not be too harsh and sharp for the digestive tract.

I've heard, probably from the same person that told me 'fey' was a welsh word, that unsweetened bakers choculate was rich in caffeine and so every once in awhile I eat a square of that. *They say it tastes bad, but I actually like it -- it tastes nutty.[/b]

Chocolate does have some caffine, but not really enough to do anything. I read somewhere that it would take a few pounds to be like an 8 oz cup of coffee...
You can buy chocolate covered coffee beans at the store. They're actually quite good, for as much as I hate normal coffee. Circle K has these GREAT carmel-vanilla cauppachinos... they're almost bliss, except I'm in Arizona. Our summers get up to 115 degrees F quite easily. So I do diet coke

<!--QuoteBegin-Tsen
I'm told that people who drink diet drinks regularly find that after a while normal drinks seem unthinkably sweet, so they probably would view the sugar high as incredibly large as well.

ick... normal coke...
I'm fine with mountian dew and sprite and all, but normal Coke or Pepsi? Yuck!
Diet coke or pepsi (either one, I'm very not picky) is great!
MD doesn't give me a surgar high.

My caffine record was 2 64 oz cups of diet coke and one of mountian dew between about 10:00 am and 3:00 pm, and 2 44 oz cups of diet at dinner. I slept just fine that night, and in the class immediately after the mountian dew (which was the first 64 oz.)

A lot of the effect of caffine is just placibo. If you think it makes you completely wired, you're wired. If you think it does nothing, then good night! If you think it works for 4 hours, that's it. I've been twitching all day from a 64 oz dcoke in the morning, all the way past 12:00.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


Well, I guess if they didn't hurt you, then I might try eating a few during the day to see if I can tolerate them. *I like coffee but hate the idea of making coffee myself, or going through all the trouble of joining coffee clubs at work. *But if I could have a little baggy of coffee beans and just pop one once in awhile...

Oh, i don't mess with making it. I drink instant!
although sometimes, when i'm desperate, even that is too slow...and no one makes my coffee but me, or it doesn't taste right...
hmmm roasted coffee beans...will have to look out for those...much more practical than my previous idea, of getting someone to hook an IV line in me, for the hit.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


I was wondering if there would be any harm in just chewing on roasted coffee beans throughout the day. They actually taste quite good. But I was worried whether they might not be too harsh and sharp for the digestive tract.

I've heard, probably from the same person that told me 'fey' was a welsh word, that unsweetened bakers choculate was rich in caffeine and so every once in awhile I eat a square of that. They say it tastes bad, but I actually like it -- it tastes nutty.

I LOVE unsweetened chocolate!!! It's kind of funny, because I'm the only person I know who does.

And yes, it does have some caffine in it, but nothing near so high as coffee.

[quote]

But in regards to lucidity, Because it is a stimuli it prevents me from getting to sleep at all. If you can get to sleep, you would think that by stimulating the brain it could help with the aspect of waking it up while asleep.

I don't think so. I find it hardest to keep lucid when I am closer to being awake (i.e., at the very beginnings and endings of dreams). But that could just be me. At any rate, I rarely have much caffine (other than tea and chocolate), and the tea I rarely have before bedtime, so I can't say whether it would affect my lucidity.

I WILL say that one thing that I find obstructs my lucidity is TELEVISION. Whenever I watch T.V., I play back what I see in all weird jumbledness, and never have the faintest idea that I'm dreaming. (It must be real -- I saw it on T.V.!) But I have only watched T.V. for maybe seven hours of my entire sixteen-year-old life, so that may be the reason....

Well I think coffee can actually help you getting LD, and i can tell you that from experience.
Few weeks ago, I woke up after ~5 hrs of sleep, and i was quite tired, I had school the other
day so drank some coffee to get me movin' (it was about a half of a teaspoon of instant coffee)
After some time I realized, that I was too much tired for school that day, and decided staying home (naughty me ).
After about ~4 hrs beeing awake, I looked at my bed and decided to take a lil' nap.

And then i had a dream: My appartment had some sort of extention, and
after cheking it out, i realized it was some sort of a gym. After chiking it out iI slipt aside to drink some water,
but as i approached the water source i realized that my neiboughrs finished all the cups and I was unable to drink anything.
At this momment something happened, and I had a breif false awaking which I unintantionally ignored, by realizing the
gym thing was a dream. That second was exiting ! getting lucid for the 3rd time 8)! finally!

I Was standing in a grayish room, a rectangle corridor with a low ceiling, at one side there was a luminated stairway and the other I'm not sure, perhaps a continuation of the corridor,
It was like a tomb. I looked at the wall, and saw some photographs they were B&W.
it seemed I was seeing B&W (grayish description of the "tomb") i started to loose the integrity of the environment, and did the "spinning" trick -which worked. I was back looking at the wall again, I thought looking closer, and it imidiatly zoomed in, there were
thousands of photos, they were so shapr and detailed, some looked really fammiliar,
but i could'nt say what. Then, I got really excited and the dream started to dissipate.
I flet I wasn't breathing, and wanted to get out ! the dream was gone, I felt awake but
again, I could swear i wasnt breathing. Then after few moments i started to move my body
and got out of the paralysis.
Well This was an exciting expierince, but I'm afraid to "stop breathing" when I LD. I had the
same feeling the last two times, that i found my self with the face in the pillow, or under the
blanket, which justify my feeling of lack of oxigen (or the excessiveness of the carbon
dioxide ) anyway, I hope I wont die next time..

Well, the point is -> I had coffee and I had a LD, i don't know if it was already got out of my
system (4 hrs passed, and I didn"t drink so much either) but i do know, that it didn't stop
me from LD,. I'll try exploring more tomorow (in about 5 hrs) and see if it has any effect
if i go to sleep, after aobut 90 minutes (I'm trying the HILD )


Sory for any typos/grammar errors/ spelling/etc... my English is better than this.. (I swear!) I'm too tired to fix anything right now. Well see you in 5 hrs, it's 4:08 i'm bailing out. Good Night!

Dear Eccentric, Irish and Athereal,

Thank you! I do love the taste of unsweetened bakers chocolate but will have to stop taking it if the only reason is that I suppose it has any significant presence of caffeine. But I also heard that it has a lot of the same stuff that is good for the heart that Red Wine has, and the Good colesteral besides... so I still have plenty of reason to indulge.

I used to take Instant Coffee, when I was in the Army, out in the field, I would tear open the little packets of Instant Coffee that comes with the rations, and I would dump the contents into my mouth and then take a swig of water from my canteen and then swish the mixture around in my mouth and swallow. The Sergeants would be quite appalled at such behavior and I thought they supposed me quite resigned of being a gentleman. Oh well, those of little minds. I suppose that is why they were taking the orders and I was giving them. Ha!

It depends on the individual. I think your body will start to reject any form of drug after you’ve had too much. I used to drink a lot of coffee to keep me awake when I drove a truck, but now one cup in the afternoon will keep me up all night. Most things in moderation are the key but don't be surprised if there are exceptions. Sometimes your body says I had enough.

Heh, looks like it was kind of a mix of fact and fiction: Twinkie Defense
Decided to do a search on it to find out more afterwards...

ick... normal coke... Barf
I'm fine with mountian dew and sprite and all, but normal Coke or Pepsi? Yuck!
Diet coke or pepsi (either one, I'm very not picky) is great![/b]

Anyway, I can count the number of diet drinks I've had in my entire life on one hand, and even those were too bland to finish. And I've never liked Mountain Dew much, either, 'cuz it tastes too...er...I don't know how to describe it. Oily, maybe? The citrus taste isn't quite as crisp as Sprite's...it's kind of sickeningly sweet. I guess it's just personal taste.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/c.../caffeine.shtml

erowid is a pretty reliable source when it comes to drugs

Hey Leo,
Just a joke and no offense

Jump off the Fad bandwägen and start drinking Coke!

Honestly, I don't think It's the drink, it might be just you. I for one can drink a litre and remember a vivid dream Look at the "talk about random" thread somewhere and you can read my entire adventurous dream, featuring a Robotic Michael Jackson. Believe me, the REAL Michael Jackson is in the 70's time capsule at the Mall of America. If they had a 70's time capsule. The white MJ is a robot *taps nose*.

Originally posted by DuckMan_Drake
Believe me, the REAL Michael Jackson is in the 70's time capsule at the Mall of America. If they had a 70's time capsule. The white MJ is a robot *taps nose*.

You mean 80's time capsule.

Speaking of Michael Jackson and time capsules, time for another thread plug! Be sure to check out the latest synch!

The 80's Redubbed Revolution!

As for the identity of the current Michael Jackson, please read this.

And now back to your regularly scheduled topic of discussion...

Nope, a particularly large or small amount of caffeine never affected my REM or dream recall either, and I used to drink the motherload: sodas, teas, energy drinks. Nothing, tomodachi, not a thing.

I dont think it directly affects it, but it might depend your tolerance of it.

I love coffee, but can't stand the instant stuff ... it's the bean or nothing for me.

While caffeine may be an excellent way to promote lucidity when taken before sleep (or in between, if WBTB), I find that if I drink coffee earlier in the day I tend to get burnt out by the time I go to sleep. Then, when I wake up, it takes me longer to come around from sleep, and therefore harder to recall clearly.

Of course, this may be largely psychological, but I wonder whether it has something to do with the amount of caffeine taken. I've heard that fresh coffee has a higher caffeine content than instant, which could be the reason why some folks here are not so affected by drinking it.

I'm not drinking coffee at the moment, in an attempt to improve my recall, and it seems to be working.

Originally posted by Dewines
but I wonder whether it has something to do with the amount of caffeine taken.

I'm guessing the answer to that is yes. I find that something with just a little caffiene, like a cola or chocolate bar, taken during the WBTB period, is just enough to help with lucidity, without causing me to stay awake, or cause the burnout effect that you described.

I didn't used to drink coffee at all, but for some reason this winter I've found that I like to have a couple of cups after I get to work in the morning, to help get me going. But I think it does tend to make me somewhat burnt out later in the day. I'm sure that I'll quit drinking it again when the weather gets warmer -- we'll see if it makes a difference.