Thread: Is lucid dreaming satanic?

Dont you worry about anything like that. Anything like possesion is merely a state of hypnosis to one self if one happen to be "posessed". God and "bad" experiences will probably get to you, but there is nothing wich we cant learn something from. So go and lucid dream as much as you feel like.

It's not. Anyone who believes it is, is likely completely misinformed as to what lucid dreaming is.

Since you mention satanic, I assume your family is christian. In that case lucid dreaming is especially natural, considering most of the prophets in christian stories communicated with god through dreams, many of them lucid.

If you use the Bible as your example, you could easily argue that Lucid Dreaming is something practiced by the most devoted Christians. Not to lucid dream then, would be wrong. I have had interesting things happen when using the lucid state as a spiritual practice. Try praying in your dream, or talking to God, or entering heaven. If you do the latter, just remember to come back

They may have a point there though. Don't get addicted to dreaming to the point where you live in the dream more than you do in real life. But as for it being "satanic", I don't think so. Try to explain to them that it is merely dreaming with a different mindset, an aware mindset.

No.

No.

There are many people who lucid dream naturally/accidentally some nights. I'd also be willing to bet that at least a few of the religious figures in Christianity and Judaism (at least the ones that verifiably existed) practiced lucid dreaming. It would likely be inevitable given their extreme interests with dreams and religious messages.

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

If you use the Bible as your example, you could easily argue that Lucid Dreaming is something practiced by the most devoted Christians. Not to lucid dream then, would be wrong. I have had interesting things happen when using the lucid state as a spiritual practice. Try praying in your dream, or talking to God, or entering heaven. If you do the latter, just remember to come back

Uum. I really don't think, that this can be argued easily. But hey - feel free to convince me otherwise.
You needed actual passages for that - and when it comes to exegesis - I am pretty sure, the family could come up with passages indicating LDing falls under "occult practices" and "witchcraft". But then - it's also in the bible that an adulteress should be publicly stoned to death and other lovely things.
I am afraid, such things can be found more easily than prophets or whoever speaking clearly about LDing as opposed to just receiving messages from God.
It lessens credibility in a way, after all - see the outrage of fundamentalist Christians over the fact, that the movie-Noah does indeed get his messages in dreams and not like the bible says by a mighty voice from the heavens.
They see it as relativism.

As to you vivian - do you believe in Satan?
What exactly do you think, he is and can do?

Or do you just seek arguments for your family, while not buying into demons and the devil personally?

Well...

1) if you are a christian, it is impossible to be possessed. So no problem there.
2) if lucid dreams are evil, than so are dreams.
3) everyone (mostly when they were kids) has had a lucid dream, and not everyone is possessed.

Lucid dreaming was started by mostly people doing drugs (LSD), AP, and Buddhist monks, so people associate that with lucid dreaming, especially people like Robert Waggoner or Carlos Castaneda that associate it with something spiritual. I am an extremely conservative to what the Bible says (literal translation of the Bible), and iI am studying to be a pastor, I don't see anything in the Bible about it, and the bible says that if something isn't directly against it (stealing, sexual immorality, lying), than it is for the person to decide between themselves and God. I am married so I ran it by my wife of course.

No. You are still inside your body when you are lucid dreaming and there is absolutely no way something can possess you. It is 100% safe and many religious and spiritual people in the past have had lucid dreams. Just like you said - It is no more sinful to know when you are asleep than to know when you are awake. In fact, brainwaves during REM sleep are almost the same as brainwaves during waking life. So its almost the same as knowing when you are awake. Raising your awareness in general is a good thing and will have many benefits to your life. You may start to notice that the people around you seem to be in a daze while you are the only one noticing the world around you. Lucid dreaming is truly a blessing, I learned to lucid dream in order to fight the demons that used to haunt my dreams, and it was the only way i was able to make them go away. I even had a dream while I was in college that I walked to the abandoned house that was on the street where I grew up. There was a demon standing in the doorway, and I killed it. I haven't encountered a demon in my dreams ever since.

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

If you use the Bible as your example, you could easily argue that Lucid Dreaming is something practiced by the most devoted Christians. Not to lucid dream then, would be wrong. I have had interesting things happen when using the lucid state as a spiritual practice. Try praying in your dream, or talking to God, or entering heaven. If you do the latter, just remember to come back

Que? No... not really... Taking the Bible as an example, trying to find your own way to God other than Jesus is heresy. :/

Dreams are mentioned in the Bible, and while they may have been lucid dreams, that doesn't mean that you are closer to spiritual in a dream than waking. God talked to more people when they were awake than asleep. So all that God talking to people in dreams shows is that he is freaking boss and can talk to people however he wants, dreams, lightning, fire, or donkeys. this doesn't mean that I am going to go and ride donkeys trying to talk to God.

Yeah, "easily argue" was a bad choice of words.

I was actually referring to this passage from 2 Cor 12...

(1) Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. (2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. (3) And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— (4) was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. (5) On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. (6) For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

Whether or not his was an LD or OBE or something else entirely could be debated, but I've always taken it as something "within the realm" of LDs. In this light, could LDing be a tool for deeper communion with God? Not a way or a means outside of Christ, but as a way perhaps opened by Christ? Reading Waggoner's book, we see long exposure to LDing begin to direct us toward spiritual places. Is the Holy Spirit with us while we dream? Can He guide us within our dreams to places or experiences or wisdom that is easier attained in dreaming than in waking? Thoughts to explore...

Originally Posted by vivianhawthorne

My mother and brother, both overbearing, religious, and nosey, both claim that by practicing lucid dreaming, I am opening myself to possession. I don't see how knowing you're asleep is any more sinful than knowing you're awake, but wanted to hear your opinions. (Don't worry I'm not about to boycott lucid dreaming. I just wanted to know...wish-3.jpg

I’m going to play devil’s advocate with this one (pardon the play on words).

I would need you to better define “Satanic”.

Do I believe you will be possessed by a demon like from the movie “The Exorcist”? No I don’t believe that is possible.

Do I believe you are leaving yourself open to demonic powers? I guess it depends on how you define it.
Is Las Vegas Satanic?
Are over 21 dance clubs Satanic?
Is the internet Satanic?

In a way all of the above listed examples are places where there is a strong temptation to sin (by Christian standards). Does everyone who goes to Vegas, goes to an over 21 dance club, or who uses the internet sinning? Definitely not. Is there major temptation to sin at all of these places? Most certainly.

Lucid dream are very much like the above mentioned places: Lots of fun, but potentially full of temptation. A lucid dream is a place where you do anything you want, and it is seemingly consequence free. A lucid dream looks and feel as realistic as real life. One issue I have had in my past lucid dreams is that I often lose control and go after sexual contact with dream characters, which is something I would never do in real life. I am married. These DCs are rarely images of my wife. They are often just random female DCs. Am I sinning if I have sexual contact with a DC? Or is it not sinning because the DC isn’t anything more than a figment of my imagination? Am I “lusting” after the DC?

The same could go for killing DCs. While you are not murdering a real human being, what is your attitude at the time? How much do you enjoy the carnage?

Honestly I can’t answer these questions. But if I follow the rule “Don’t do anything you wouldn’t tell your mother about” than I am most certainly doing something I shouldn’t.

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Yeah, "easily argue" was a bad choice of words.

I was actually referring to this passage from 2 Cor 12...

Whether or not his was an LD or OBE or something else entirely could be debated, but I've always taken it as something "within the realm" of LDs. In this light, could LDing be a tool for deeper communion with God? Not a way or a means outside of Christ, but as a way perhaps opened by Christ? Reading Waggoner's book, we see long exposure to LDing begin to direct us toward spiritual places. Is the Holy Spirit with us while we dream? Can He guide us within our dreams to places or experiences or wisdom that is easier attained in dreaming than in waking? Thoughts to explore...

"whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know"
That would show that it wasn't an LD 100%. LDing is knowing that you are dreaming when you are in a dream. :/

The Holy Spirit is with us when we dream, since it is "within us". He could, but probably not. God is not limited to dimensions. LDing doesn't take us to "spiritual places" it takes us to what we as humans view the spiritual as, "the unknown". Any dimension that we don't understand, we deem spiritual, which is strange, because looking back at that text.
"whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know"
We see that spiritual is actually closer to physical than we realize. Adam had a Spiritual and Physical part to his body, the spiritual died. The new earth will be physical and spiritual.

Just because dreams are ethereal and go close to what we think of as spiritual, does not mean that they are.

Interesting topic Cvdmehden, you sound like you know at least some Bible. You a Christian?

Originally Posted by Sensei

"whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know"
That would show that it wasn't an LD 100%. LDing is knowing that you are dreaming when you are in a dream. :/

Bear in mind, that was Paul commenting on the man's journey. The man may have been fully lucid. Paul doesn't know if the man's physical body ascended or his spiritual body. We aren't told by the man, but from similar experiences I've had, I suspect the man would know he was "dreaming."

Because the term "lucid dreaming" is a fairly recent term, I wonder about other dreams in the Bible. Back then, for all we know, lucid dreams were the norm. The people we read about in the Bible certainly had a more dynamic experience of spirituality (visions, healings, angels, demons, etc), maybe the lucid state of consciousness was commonplace to them. I don't know. Just free-form speculation now

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Bear in mind, that was Paul commenting on the man's journey. The man may have been fully lucid. Paul doesn't know if the man's physical body ascended or his spiritual body. We aren't told by the man, but from similar experiences I've had, I suspect the man would know he was "dreaming."

Because the term "lucid dreaming" is a fairly recent term, I wonder about other dreams in the Bible. Back then, for all we know, lucid dreams were the norm. The people we read about in the Bible certainly had a more dynamic experience of spirituality (visions, healings, angels, demons, etc), maybe the lucid state of consciousness was commonplace to them. I don't know. Just free-form speculation now

1) "the man" was Paul.

2) I have wondered before if the ability to know whether or not we were in a dream is something that we have lost over the ages because of losses in DNA over the centuries and that some people may still have it. I don't know though, because those people would be born with it, but all naturals have a time that they started and progressed. Normally going from 1/month to 1/week to 1/night to multiple a night.

@Tygar and everyone
Titus 1:15
Kind of goes well with Tygar's point.

Originally Posted by vivianhawthorne

My mother and brother, both overbearing, religious, and nosey, both claim that by practicing lucid dreaming, I am opening myself to possession. I don't see how knowing you're asleep is any more sinful than knowing you're awake, but wanted to hear your opinions. (Don't worry I'm not about to boycott lucid dreaming. I just wanted to know...wish-3.jpg

I guess in the loosest sense, if you LD you could be open to obsession, which might be seen as a form of posession.

I take it you are not religious like they are?
Much as it is ideal to be able to talk to loved ones about lucid dreaming, it sounds like they will be difficult to convince of the positive aspects.

Are they actually saying it's sinful?
I can't see why, until you start describing what you are doing while you LD. If God is all seeing, won't he see your dreams just as he sees your waking life (if you believe that)?

vivianhawthorne--
Rather the opposite. You are much more likely to be possessed by some Dark Side force without lucidity. With it you can fend it off.

My guess your mother and brother may want you open to such possession.

But your lack to response to all this this interest in your dilemma, without any response from you, makes me suspicious about your motives, frankly.

Hummer

Also, this all depends on your POV. As a christian that believes in the Holy Spirit in you, you cannot be possessed. For Hummer's belief, anyone can be taken by dark forces. And for another "good vs evil" standpoint, tygar pointed out that LDing isn't inherently good or bad. It is how you use it. New Jedi Order like.

I can say this though, know what you believe. If you believe something to be good.Do it, bad don't do it. Something nuetral, use it in a way for good. If you are honestly seeking the truth you will find it.

Lucid Dreaming and Christianity: Entering the Light | dream studies portal

Originally Posted by Sensei

I am an extremely conservative to what the Bible says (literal translation of the Bible), and I am studying to be a pastor, I don't see anything in the Bible about it, and the bible says that if something isn't directly against it (stealing, sexual immorality, lying), than it is for the person to decide between themselves and God. I am married so I ran it by my wife of course.

Is that you Brandon?!
Fascinating - maybe we will actually have the opportunity to make something of this topic - not only do we have a declared Christian chiming in - but a biblical literalist, who is about to dedicate his life to Christianity - no less!
What a marvellous opportunity - at least you are not a wishi-washi coffehouse Christian, who doesn't quite know, what she believes.

Is Lucid Dreaming Satanic?

This question is open to numerous interpretations besides possession - but first I'd like to take your arguments on faith level:

Originally Posted by Sensei

1) if you are a christian, it is impossible to be possessed. So no problem there.

That's where you leave your literal ground - the bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a daemon or not. This even from sources, which then go on to argue, why related biblical truths would point that way:

Originally Posted by christianitytoday und gotquestions/Christian-demon-possessed

While the Bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon..
Can a Christian be demon-possessed? That question produces lots of disagreement among theologians.
Most would say that a believer probably won't be totally possessed, but might experience some form of oppression (or very strong influence) by demons. The Bible does describe followers of God coming under the influence of evil spirits—King Saul disobeyed God's instruction, and the Bible says, "The Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit … tormented him" (1 Samuel 16:14, NIV). Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, was possessed by Satan (Luke 22:3). And an evil spirit influenced Ananias and Sapphira, husband and wife, to lie to their fellow Christians and to God (Acts 5), leading to their deaths.

So - I challenge you as a biblical literalist to show me the passage, where the bible says, what you seem to claim as being general Christian dogma - go ahead! Maybe you are the first to find such a thing..

Daemonic possessions have supposedly happened again and again in Christian communities. The victims were - at least nominally - Christians too. Was their faith too weak? If a man accepts the Christ, does this grant him immunity until the end of his life? What if he wavers in his belief, even for 5 minutes? Even in his dreams?

I get it you are no Catholic - so I can spare myself the argumentation from that side - but also in Protestantism - this is a much debated question, and Christianity as a whole is far from agreeing with you there.
I could even postulate, that weak and wavering Christians are a much worthier prize to possess, since they count for more in the devil's war/game with God.

Originally Posted by Sensei

2) if lucid dreams are evil, than so are dreams.

No. That is complete non sequitur.
If doing magic in real life is evil - then so is real life.
Do you get my point?

But lets take a viewpoint besides pure logic:

It is questionable if "in dreams begin responsibilities". Most people would deny this, since we see the (non-lucid) dreamer more as a helpless puppet, driven by unconscious desires and fears, or by the fading impressions of his recent experiences. Such a dreamer does not control the content of his dreams, nor his own actions with which he responds to it. He clearly has severely diminished or no moral agency, so neither we nor - I would presume - God will attach blame to him, no matter what depraved images will confront the sleeper. But everything changes as soon as the dreamer becomes conscious.
An analogy would be the difference between innocent children and responsible adults, between instinct driven animals and deliberating humans.
Ethical responsibility or sin starts with consciousness. Even more, in lucid dreams our ability to sin is augmented by the temptation of power, the power to transgress our usual limitation and boundaries, unobserved and unpunished.
Sure, it's not reality, so it's not really murder, not really adultery - but are you sure it's completely without consequences? Doesn't it change us, don't we talk about it with others in this forum, does our life stay the same?
For many people here it's clearly about gaining godlike powers, consciously, and about revelling in the experience.

Originally Posted by Sensei

3) everyone (mostly when they were kids) has had a lucid dream, and not everyone is possessed.

Well - that doesn't prove anything.
Could be this is, because the devil doesn't much care for children, could be that the more you LD - the higher the risk.
Maybe only really high level lucids open the boundary, the complete conscious realization, and what most children do is not quite the same.


What is more interesting - you seem to believe, that a non Christian can be possessed by the devil.
I find this absolutely ludicrous - same as the belief in Satan in the first place.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Lucid dreaming was started by mostly people doing drugs (LSD), AP, and Buddhist monks, so people associate that with lucid dreaming, especially people like Robert Waggoner or Carlos Castaneda that associate it with something spiritual.

Now this is nice - you mention Castaneda spontaneously - perfect example of how LDing is explicitly categorized as Witchcraft/Sorcery.
So there you go - that doesn't help your argument, I don't think.
You mentioned heresy above - and anything "spiritual" other than the trinity plus for Catholics Mary and the Saints - is occult practice and black magic - we don't need Castaneda to spell it out.
It is widely held, esp. by our beyond dreamers - that there is a potential to contact dead people.
Just one example, of how that certainly counts - same with shared dreaming and same with contacting spiritual entities.
Both of which are supposedly practised by Tibetan monks and Waggoner as well.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

There are several references to witchcraft in the Bible that strongly condemn such practices. For example, Deuteronomy 18:11-12 condemns anyone who "..casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you", and Exodus 22:18 states "Do not allow a sorceress to live".
Some adherents of near-east religions acted as mediums, channeling messages from the dead or from a familiar spirit. The Bible sometimes is translated as referring to "necromancer" and "necromancy" (Deuteronomy 18:11)

Originally Posted by Sensei

Que? No... not really... Taking the Bible as an example, trying to find your own way to God other than Jesus is heresy. :/

What this implies, is that even a person living a saint-like life without committing anything, which is seen as sinning in Christianity - will end up in hell anyway, at least till the second coming.
Especially, if they heard of Christianity in some way.
What about the people, who never came in contact with it in the first place - all damned?
Why did not god almighty make sure, that the happy message of the messiah reaches all and every human, to make sure, they have a fair chance?
Answer me - do they really burn in hell right now?
What a humanity-loving god - I am flabbergasted, got to say.

Originally Posted by Tygar

I’m going to play devil’s advocate with this one (pardon the play on words).

Lucid dream are very much like the above mentioned places: Lots of fun, but potentially full of temptation. A lucid dream is a place where you do anything you want, and it is seemingly consequence free. A lucid dream looks and feel as realistic as real life. One issue I have had in my past lucid dreams is that I often lose control and go after sexual contact with dream characters, which is something I would never do in real life. I am married. These DCs are rarely images of my wife. They are often just random female DCs. Am I sinning if I have sexual contact with a DC? Or is it not sinning because the DC isn’t anything more than a figment of my imagination? Am I “lusting” after the DC?

The same could go for killing DCs. While you are not murdering a real human being, what is your attitude at the time? How much do you enjoy the carnage?

Exactly - great and honest post - which I hadn't seen yet while drafting this one - thanks!
Should a devout Christian not keep herself out of any situation, which represents heightened temptation to sin?
And do not forget, people - in Christianity - god supposedly watches and punishes even thought crimes - even lusting after something other than your wife/husband.

Sensei - you keep reporting of how you had sex with your wife in your LDs - you are aware, that that wasn't your real wife whatsoever, aren't you??
At the very least you are indulging in masturbation, wouldn't you say?
Or is it only masturbation, if you "waste" your actual semen?

What has to be seriously considered is the hubris bound to rear it's head and make you feel an equal of god .
Think of your former user name, Sensei, and how you now denominate god as Boss - or of dutchraptor's guide as to how to become an LDing god - isn't that what we all indulge in in LDs?
And isn't that the ultimate sin in Christianity?
The first several commandments being about how you should worship and fear and obey your tyrant, and only him.
Who will get you anyway, if you don't, and then has the cheek to command, that you have to love him on top of that!




To sum up the acute in-dream Satan and sin business:

Possession:
It is not clear, if that could happen - but there are very many theologians, who propose it is possible - at least in some weaker form called "demonism" - they even got a word for it.

Temptation:
Conscious moral agency in the face of overwhelming temptation through power and autonomous LDing-associated hypersexuality.
Remember - your thoughts are not your private business - your god-tyranny registers everything.

Now to the most satanic of all - say you manage not to be possessed - say you behave like a saint in your LDs - there is this deciding point:

Witchcraft/Necromancy:
See above.


But for the more realistic Christians - for whom the whole satanic business looks alien anyway - consider the following:

What you do in your lucid dreams influences the kind of person you are in real life.
This starts by the above mentioned - being here on the forum - but why not look at it from a less harmless angle:
What if you habitually do blasphemy in dreams by feeling like a god, or lusting after DCs and having lots of sex with something other than your wife/husband, and fight and kill for fun - wouldn't after a while your brain be reprogrammed?
Neuroscience tells us, that the more often we use certain neural pathways - the more ingrained they become - habits form, which are hard to break, if and when the individual would consciously want to.

LDing with the above moral agency plus huge and abundant temptations must in the Christian worldview be seen as very dangerous.
At least, because it could make you a more sinful and worse person irl. And this down to the physical properties of the brain - what gets used, gets more fibres through which to fire - more power and hold.
So - even as a mild Protestant - it is nigh impossible to deny spill-over from LDing into waking life - even while you don't believe in the above fairy-tale Christianity.


Conclusion:
Yes - if you happen to try to be a devout Christian - you better leave your fingers off LDing!!

So don't try to be one - it makes no sense - happy lucid dreams instead and to find a dogma free spirituality!


I look forward to arguments against my points everybody - and esp. Sensei as an almost professional.
Besides in this thread - please elucidate your views in the religion subforum for some change - seems as if there were mainly atheists over there.

And this is a good starting point:
http://www.dreamviews.com/religion-s...believers.html
Looking forward to your contribution - I really do!

0_0

Yes, it is me StephL. Thank you for that loooooong post. I will try and get a post out this afternoon. Might have to wait until tomorrow though (bible study tonight I need to finish preparing for lol).

You seem to know a lot of stuff about Christianity as a religion, but it is a faith remember. A little different than religions, but a lot different than what people think it is.

I am not very big into debating (note, why I stay out of off topic), because I hate long posts, and 99% of the time all the good points are dismissed. I will make an acception this time since it is you, and it is about LDing.

Originally Posted by StephL

For many people here it's clearly about gaining godlike powers, consciously, and about revelling in the experience.
Looks quite sinful to me.

Other than for extreme Christians who believe we're born to suffer and nothing else, why would that be sinful?

Personally, I find the idea that LDing opens the door to being possessed absurd on many levels, but if we draw the long bow and assume there really are such things as demons waiting to take possession of our bodies, wouldn't it be logical to assume that more awareness would make one less susceptible?

In my opinion calling lucid dreams satanic is same as you if you'd call dreams being satanic
Lucid Dreaming is simply dreaming with awareness that it's not a real life and it's just a dream

Actions you might take conscioussly in LD's might be sinful. For example:
- Practicing satanism (which would make ld's of yours satanic)
- Probatly Sex (as sinful as masturbation i think)
- Calling yourself god or making dc's think your god aka calling yourself a god or real god

Killing / hurting or doing inhuman things to DC's is same as playing game or watching movie in which you kill / hurt or do inhuman things to characters

Thank you Sensei - I really appreciate it!
Don't worry, when you answer - really no stress - eventually is completely fine!
As a literalist Christian pastor - you'll come across situations, where you will need some skills in debating anyway.
You know what? I have an idea - why not show your bible session buddies and your professors this thread, and ask them, what they think? At least the teachers must be able to scrutinize it from the top of their heads, I suppose - and they probably have the corresponding passages as well.
Then we would have it on some authority.
Maybe some of them even become members, if only to argue people out of LDing.
If an official okay should be given - maybe they would start to LD themselves!
smile.gif

Originally Posted by Nailler

Other than for extreme Christians who believe we're born to suffer and nothing else, why would that be sinful?

Yes - that doesn't directly follow, the way I put it - I'll edit - can still be seen in your quote anyway.
Thing is - even if some of my points can be weakened or completely disregarded - there will be enough aspects left to answer the motion with yes.

Originally Posted by Nailler

Personally, I find the idea that LDing opens the door to being possessed absurd on many levels, but if we draw the long bow and assume there really are such things as demons waiting to take possession of our bodies, wouldn't it be logical to assume that more awareness would make one less susceptible?

Not necessarily - you could pose it like that, and I see the inherent logic - but consider how many people have reported through history, that they have come in contact with spiritual entities exactly through LDing.
And with spiritual entities outside of the allowed ones in Christianity - I forgot to mention angels above.
So that would all have to be contact with daemons (often in disguise as something positive), and they clearly didn't meet them on a real life side-walk - they got visited inside their minds.

And of course it is absurd.

But even basic and common pieces of Christian doctrine strongly discourage anything with properties like LDing - even if you don't believe in the fairy tales - this seems pretty clear to me!