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    Thread: Lucidity on demand

    1. #51
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      Yes, alij8000, that's what I imagined you were trying to get at. And it would be quite an ideal skill. If you ever find out how, I want to know too. But in the case you described, you were indeed sleeping and you could have a similar experience if you had tried to WILD (except shorter I imagine)

      You know, I have had many DILDs, but I don't think I have ever WILDed. It's hard for me. I find it hard to consciously fall asleep and into the REM phase. Hopefully one day, I will get there. I suggest you start there too. Because there's no way that thing you're trying to do is easier than WILDing. And if it's possible, I imagine it is easier for someone who has mastered WILDing. In fact, I think both are the same, just you are describing it as if it were super easy and conjurable at any moment and that sleep did not consist of cycles but rather was exclusively a REM phase.

      This is what you want (so that everyone else understands):
      1) To fall asleep at will.
      2) Sleep is only REM phase


      Those two goals are impossible to attain 100%. But perhaps you can improve both.
      If you want 1), I suggest again that you look up ways to fall asleep faster.
      If you want 2), just ask around, I actually don't know. But some people in this thread have experience with playing with their sleep cycles. Sageous for examples practices different types of sleep, like polyphasic sleep I think it's called. He can point to you to places where he talks about his experience. From what I understand, it's a process that takes a lot of time to get used to. That's the thing alij8000. Some people here have so much experience with sleep, that they can't see your goal being realistic because they have a profound understanding of how dreaming works. It takes some open mindedness to practice polyphasic sleep and some determination. People here are crossing the boundaries of what is normal.

      What you describing however is just a great idealistic fantasy. I understand it. Because I think that would be awesome and make life so much easier.
      Last edited by Occipitalred; 12-05-2016 at 12:25 AM.

    2. #52
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      That would be fantastic if it was possible but it's not unless you take some special drugs (that will make you have 100% hallucination but will probably kill any sense of lucidity) or suffer from serious mental disease or sleep disorder.
      Still, to lucid dream you have to dream and to dream you have to be asleep.
      There is no need to argue during pages, except turning this thread into a trolling story.

    3. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by alij8000 View Post
      i can't believe I'm seriously being asked this,but if that actually happened on other threads,i can tell you my first ever LD experience, it happened around 3 weeks after i started doing isha kriya meditation,i had an unintended WILD,at first i didn't tell the difference i simply thought i had awoken,but in the mirror my face was blurred out,that's when i realized i was dreaming,i got too excited and i woke up and then i did some research and at first i thought it was astral projection but soon after i found it to be lucid dreaming.
      Seriously, do we have to ask?
      Okay? I've never had to do kriya meditation to achieve a dream. It could be the same with you. You could've been just ready to wild. I think you are now just pushing yourself too hard.
      Quote Originally Posted by Occipitalred View Post
      What you describing, however, is just a great idealistic fantasy. I understand it. Because I think that would be awesome and make life so much easier.
      Yes, that would be very cool. I understand that too but, to be honest, my dreaming and recall are a bit more on demand than what you are telling us here.
      Last edited by Lang; 12-05-2016 at 02:07 AM.

    4. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ibeauty View Post
      Yes, that would be very cool. I understand that too but, to be honest, my dreaming and recall are a bit more on demand than what you are telling us here.
      Ibeauty, can you expand? I am a little bit confused about the comment.
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    5. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by Occipitalred View Post
      Ibeauty, can you expand? I am a little bit confused about the comment.
      I'm a natural lucid dreamer. It does not take much to dream but, I sleep. I'm trying to see things from both sides here but, it's hard to when feels like we are still missing information.
      Here's what I found in Gopi Krishna's book (Please giving more information) There are hidden problems this:
      "With the awakening of kundalini, the arrangement suffers a radical alteration affecting the entire nervous system, .. in most cases it results in a great instability of the emotional nature and a great liability to aberrant mental conditions in the subject, mainly resulting from tainted Heredity, faulty modes of conduct, or immoderation in any shape or forum.
      Leaving out the extreme cases, which end in madness, this generalization applies to all categories of those in whom kundalini is congenitally more or less active, comprising mystics, mediums, men and women of genius, and those of an exceptionally high intellectual or artistic Development. In the case of those in whom the awakening occurs all at once as the result of yoga or other spiritual practices, the sudden impact or powerful vital currents in the brain and other organs is often attended with serious risk and strange mental conditions, varying from moment To moment, exhibiting in the beginning the abnormal peculiarities of a medium, mystic, genius, and madman all rolled into one. "
      What do you think? Guys? If it could work that would be cool but, there are side effects, apparently? Please alij8000 enlighten me. I could be wrong.
      Last edited by Lang; 12-05-2016 at 03:21 AM.
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    6. #56
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      ^ Got it.

    7. #57
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      @occipitalred
      Thank you for the reply my friend.
      unfortunetly im being misinterpreted again here,no i did not wish to achive insta-sleep or rem only sleep on demand,if you read carefully the example i wrote of how it would be,at no point in it did i have any intention of falling asleep,i bypassed sleep entirely,both realities were happening,in one i was inside a lucid dream,and in the other i was awake,relaxed,with my eyes closed,when you close your eyes 60% of your brain funcinality moves elsewhere (or at least thats what my guru says xD) wherever your attention resides,in this case it could be a lucid dream,and im sure 60% of my brain activity is more than enough to maintain a lucid dream experiance,
      However,
      what you suggest would work as well,insta-sleep and rem only sleep would yield just about exactly the same results,in fact,i belive them to be the same thing as i would persue with very minor differences,
      and you may be confused about something here,i never had much problem with WILDing or DILDing , ,i've don't usualy have a week without at least 2-3 5-10 min long LD's and like i said 95% are WILDs,its rarely ever happend.and its not why im persuing this.but thats personal stuff it has nothing to do with our discussion here .

      ok so in your suggestions to me its implied that how you would appraoch this,or how you would advice me to approach this,is to practice making sleep easier,but your making a detour here which isn't necessary,here is how i see it and here is how i would see the suggestions that were given :

      Practice/Research sleep --> sleep easier --> have lucid dreaming experiance easier

      this has few (-) points and 1 potentialy (+) points :

      1-it could '*potentialy* be more consistent,but from what we can see as you said sageous for example even tough going trough certin sleep cycle related practices has not found a way to LD on demand,that means that we've alredy explored this route,and its proved to be inconvinent and hasn't born any considreble fruits
      2-this is not infinite
      3-putting your body into sleep could potentialy be a limit to what you can do in the dream world,for example if your doing something super exciting if your dream world experiance is connected to your now sleeping body,your heart rate my rise and you may wake up and lose the experiance,as opposed to having an alredy woke body that is limitless in its simontanious experiance,
      4-you'd have to be in a certin metabolism to control your body the way you want so that you can then put it into a sleeping state,for example if your body is high in temperture,you will find it extreamly difficult to sleep,so your basically fighting against lots of physical odds here as opposed to bypassing them completely.



      here is my version of your suggestion for you

      find alternate on demand replacement for sleep --> have lucid dreaming experiance

      only diffrence is,my version of it has three (+) points and one (-) point to it :

      1-its infinite
      2-its outside the box,and so it might not require a lot of time,practice,or etc,you might start trying to find a way and find a way from inside the dream by asking your dream guide or experimenting yourself this very day,and might even find it in the first try,how do you know if you've not tried before ?
      3-its inconsistent,it will eighter work or not you'll never know if your getting somewhere or not
      4-it would make more sense that if you want to find a way into something,it would be easier to do it from inside than outside
      for example if your in a whole,you will very very easily see the light and find the entry to the hole,but if you were outside,it would be much harder to find a hole! (do your research in the dreaming world instead of the waking world)

      @Ibeauty
      thank you for the reply
      '' to be honest, my dreaming and recall are a bit more on demand than what you are telling us here.'' is a very very bold thing to say,
      does that mean that any time you wish you can just WILD regardless of wether your in REM or not and or wether your physically tired or relaxed enough to WILD? because if i could do that i would never spend any time on any fourms thats for sure. (not to mention thats what were all here trying to achive!)

      on your second point,im not sure what your refering to when you say theres not enough information,on what exactly? because you followed it up with kundalini awakening possibly relating to my kundalini awakening which again has nothing to do with why i made this thread or what the purpose of this thread essentialy is,
      yes i've gone trough kundalini awakening for the most part,yes it has side effects,yes insomnia is part of it,yes i've had problems WILDing because of it,but keep in my mind all these are temporary stuff,the side effects are not as severe as in your described article makes it to be,well as long as it doesn't happen to you without you being concious of it which was my case,i had the opposite of diarhea not sure what its called,my body would reject junk food,my hair loss stopped contrarary to what articles say would happen,i became aware of sensations other than pain which i became greately unaware of,my pupils dilated,and i was litteraly the exact same as when on marijuana for some 3 days in a row non-stop but i was fully aware and concious of my sorroundings as opposed to what happens when you consume drugs.
      but again i don't see how this is relevant,as i said this has nothing to do with me having trouble lucid dreaming,you see if i wanted to have 2 LD's each day i could easily do two WILD's each day one with WBTB and one trough regular napping if i set myself up for it,and all it would take me would be to have protein only or vegan meals 2 meals a day and only do my medtation practices in the morning after having had the LD's so that it would not interfere with my sleep cycles,
      i've actualy done this before,and had a period of having 2-3 WILD's and sometimes even 4 WILD's each day for 41 days (it just happend to be 41 days its not a special cycle or sth),i've had some 120 sucsessfull LD's (those that were stable and were prolonged and not just 30 second fails) and i have no problem LD'ing,

      i made this thread so that i could LD infinetly at any situation at the spark of my will,
      this doesn't mean im doing it because i can't normaly LD,i very much can,
      i don't know how else i could clear this up...

      finaly i might have gotten confused and wrote some unnecessary things about myself,please forgive me if thats the case(and skip *x* ) ,but i don't think kundalini awakening has anything to do with what were trying to achive here...or at least i find no connection for it.

      *x* this kind of misunderstanding is not your fault by any means,its not mine eighter,i wanted to delete this thread and make a new one and i did make a new one with a clarified goal so as to not cause confusion,however the admin merged it,which was a bad idea,as i had miserebly failed to get trough to you what i actualy meant to achive by this thread in the initial thread.
      Last edited by alij8000; 12-05-2016 at 08:49 AM.

    8. #58
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      Take a look to Claude rifat's researches.
      What he speaks about, especially the controlled hallucinations part, is the closest thing I can see from what you are looking for.
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    9. #59
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      @kaan
      ok,thx for your suggestion

      update :
      from what i read on articles its called ''concious dreaming'' but its refered to as ''astral projection'' by the ones writing the articles about it,i haven't done enough research to know anything about it but im going to try it very soon,tommorrow night when i don't have an exam the day after,
      and from what i could gather from the experiances induced by his ''concious dreaming'' technique,its not astral projection,i've had astral projections on more than one occasion and i can tell by reading the experiances that its not that,
      also this technique is one of the 100 vigyan bhairav gita techniques that are considered to be the root of all meditations and or spiritual practices , there is also a lucid dreaming technique in the bhairav gita ,its called the intengible breath,and i've done it and it actualy works and is a tottaly commendeble lucid dreaming technique,
      i just never tought that what the gita said could actualy considered in the way that claude rifat excercises it,im wow'ed and i will share my experiance of this with you as soon as i have it,im confident it will work,but im not sure what to expect .

      altough even if this does indeed work,its by no means infinite,altough it bypasses sleep,you still need to be in rem for this.
      BUT,its a start,and its a great one,and im gratefull you mentioned it !!! thank you!
      btw have you done it yourself?
      Last edited by alij8000; 12-05-2016 at 05:51 PM.

    10. #60
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      ^ I like that Kaan
      Abbott and Costello?
      Quote Originally Posted by alij8000 View Post
      (or at least thats what my guru says xD)
      Is this your Dream Character? What does he say about being in pain?

      Quote Originally Posted by alij8000 View Post
      *x* this kind of misunderstanding is not your fault by any means, its not mine either,i wanted to delete this thread and make a new one and i did make a new one with a clarified goal so as to not cause confusion,however the admin merged it,which was a bad idea,as i had miserably failed to get trough to you what i actually meant to achieve by this thread in the initial thread.
      ♪♫Either/ Neither. Let's call the whole things off!!♪♫
      I would PM an admin to see if you can work that out. If I were you, I would advise you to open up a DJ or a workbook and keep records there and then I would just work on personal goals there too. So, at least you are doing your own thing and such instead of confusing members by a topic that sounded like you are recruiting members for whatever reason, Just saying. (IMO)
      Last edited by Lang; 12-05-2016 at 07:29 PM.

    11. #61
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      I read claude rifa's writings about two decades ago. Claude has passed away since but I guess you can still find most of his work.
      what is a bit weird is that part of his work is in English, part is in French. the guy made some serious research about how the brain creates and modify "hallucinations" during dreams, and also played a lot with some hallucinogen molecules to study their effects.

      I started to train to have controlled hallucinations but never really got the hang of it and gave up.
      Also, at that time I was sometimes suffering from hypnopompic hallucinations, and those were coming more frequently when I was trying to "Astral Travel" which involved the same kind of techniques (I don't believe anymore that AT are anything than a certain type of LD, but anyway).
      I think that trying to trigger hallucinations is dangerous cause I guess it can turns into (or reveal) skysophrenia troubles, or other mental diseases, so I'm glad I didn't push it too much.

      Claude Rifat didn't speak about OBE or AT, at least in my memory, you should only refer to what he wrote rather than to what it is said on forums about his work, at least as a first step.
      Claude de Contrecoeur: article index

      A technique is developed here: Méthode d'induction d'hallucinations contrôlées
      there was another guy that developed a technique for controlled hallucinations, Claude spoke about it but I can't remember his name.
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    12. #62
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      @Ibeauty
      im pretty sure your still confused why i made this thread ,i don't blame you ,i sure messed it up quite good,but i think i've alredy gotten what i've wanted from this thread mostly,all i really wanted was to get this idea into peoples brains who have more experiance than me LD'ing,
      that its possible,and i wanted to intice people to try to achive what i was originaly looking for,so that if i couldn't get there,others with more experiance would eventualy get there before me and i could basically copy what they've achived .
      in other words,matter of fact i am trying to ''recruit'' people,in a sense,yes that would be correct to say.
      but in the process i got my hands on your valuble knowledge as well,which is great,superb in fact,i wasn't actualy hoping to!

    13. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      I read claude rifa's writings about two decades ago. Claude has passed away since but I guess you can still find most of his work.
      Kaan thank you for pointing us in that direction. Hopefully it is a step forward.
      Quote Originally Posted by alij8000 View Post
      @Ibeauty
      I'm pretty sure your still confused why I made this thread
      On the contrary! What I said was simply a suggestion.

    14. #64
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      so i tried to try the technique but i got creative and screwed it up midway,trying again tonight :/

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