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    1. #1
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      Entering WILD. Imagination or concentration?

      Hello,
      Here's a question regarding WILD.

      First I'll describe some special feeling I want to ask about. Recall some times when you've been absolutely tired and had urgently needed some sleep. If you close your eyes in such a state, you'll feel as something will relax in the center of your head behind your eyes - just like a muscle inside your brains. The same moment you'll start to lose your concentration, forget who you are, where and why. Some images will appear behind your internal look and soon you'll fall asleep. I dare to assume that you are not able to relax that thing inside your head without closing eyes. Closing only one eye will not help. Although if you are not tired you will rather not feel this strange relaxation once closing your eyes. In this case you will keep your mind awake. I feel this like a tension of mind, I call it so. That's quite trivial, but I don't understand how to fall asleep and stay awake in the same time.

      If I try to keep my consciousness to enter WILD (counting and repeating "I'm sleeping" for example) - I keep this tension of mind and feel no relaxation, don't fall asleep and don't have a LD. If I don't keep my mind arise - I don't feel tension, I fall asleep, but I lose consciousness and have a non-lucid dreams.

      So the question is - should I maintain this tension to enter WILD and just wait for full physiological relaxation. Or I just have to release my mind and imagine something special. Imagination don't require "mind tension", but concentration does! What is correct?

    2. #2
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      The goal in WILD is not to fall asleep and stay awake at the same time. The goal in WILD is to be conscious during the transition from waking to dreaming while also knowing that it is a transition from waking to dreaming. Falling asleep is necessary to do this but staying awake isn't.

      Both ways suggested can be used to achieve this goal, although a false awakening is more likely when not actively trying to imagine anything.

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      i've never succesfully wilded (that i can remember) , but i think the idea is to repeat something like ' i am aware, i am dreaming ' instead of 'i'm sleeping' which will only help too put you too sleep :-)
      Some colors exist in dreams that are not present in the waking spectrum. ~Terri Guillemets

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      "So the question is - should I maintain this tension to enter WILD and just wait for full physiological relaxation. Or I just have to release my mind and imagine something special. Imagination don't require "mind tension", but concentration does! What is correct?"

      Your questions have hit upon the crux of the WILD problem.

      Allow me to restructure your questions, so I can be more precise.

      What is the ideal amount of "tension", for WILD induction?

      There is a problem because I do not know the source of this inner "tension", do you mean concentration or Awareness ? Since I am not certain I will go into both.

      First, concerning the concentration issue. Before going any further it would be important to ask, Concentration on what exactly? There are some cases where concentration, in any amount, is extremely detrimental. If while you are attempting to induce a WILD you are focusing on some random emotionally charged or even neutral thought stream, than any quantity is too much. The risk of following a neutral thought, is one is likely to be lured by its unfolding into a stupor. While the concern I have with emotionally charged thoughts is they tend to produce stress-hormones which keep the body agitated and awake. Beyond this, there is another problem with focusing on these two things, it implies that concentration is not being placed on an exit-technique.

      And now, to what degree is concentration advisable? Well this is difficult to say precisely, but I would say to about 75% percent of your capability, the reasoning behind this is, a rather high amount of concentration upon the exit-technique is required, but that intensity should not be so much as to be straining. When Buddha was asked, "how much concentration should be placed upon the meditative object", he used the example of the bow, he said basically that like the string on the bow, it should be neither too loose, nor too tight. You will have to find out through trial-and-error what point on the spectrum between tightness and looseness is right for yourself.

      Next, what is the proper degree of meta-cognitive awareness, or mindfulness? It depends on your approach. It is my conclusion that there are into fact two ways a WILD may occur. The first of which is the one in which awareness is maintained throughout the entire process, from laying down, to hypnagogia, to full immersion within the dream-matrix. In this case, I do not believe there is any level at which mindfulness becomes too much. However, and this may cause some debate, but I believe that a momentary loss of consciousness does not dis-qualify that experience from being a WILD. Many of my WILDs occurred after having done some method over a long period of time and then suddenly giving up all intentional actions, and completely relaxing. In such cases, there would occur a brief laps in awareness and then I would suddenly 'wake up' in the vibrational state. So, I suppose the answer to 'how much awareness should be maintained and for how long', depends on which avenue you would like to take toward the dream-state.

      Here is how I break down the WILD process:

      1. Physical relaxation
      2. Maintenance of mindfulness (Usually through concentration on an object or method)
      3. The exit technique. Specifically, A. Its effectiveness B. How much concentration was put into it C. How long it was done.

      Issue 3 expanded.

      Obviously the efficiency of the exit technique used is going to greatly influence your success rate. When the force generated by the exit technique reaches a critical mass, the process of externalization will become self-sustaining. Proximity to this critical mass is determined by the efficiency of the method, the duration it is applied, and the amount of focus being put into it. If physical relaxation and awareness are sufficient when this 'critical mass' is reached, successful WILD induction is nearly guaranteed.

      Probable reasons for failure:
      1. Insufficient physical relaxation.
      2. Weak awareness.
      3. A. Ineffective technique. B. It was not done with sufficient intensity of effort. C. The method was not done long enough.
      Last edited by Valis1; 08-24-2017 at 09:24 PM.
      "Parable.- Those thinkers in whom all stars move in cyclic orbits are not the most profound: whoever looks into himself as into vast space and carries galaxies in himself also knows how irregular all galaxies are; they lead into the chaos and labyrinth of existence."- Friedrich Nietzsche, the gay science, First published in 1882 revised in 1887, translated by Walter Kaufmann [/SIGPIC]

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      I am completely clueless on the names and methods all of you people have.
      Maybe a laymen's help would be useful?

      What you are describing sounds a lot like something I do, I will use my imagination to create a scenario. I then imagine this scenario and repeat it in my imagination over and over as I drift off to sleep. If I do this right, I will slide from imagining it to dreaming it. I am still aware of the fact I am asleep but I no longer need to 'imagine' what I am trying to dream as whatever makes dreams takes over and runs with the scenario to whever it goes.

      So, imagination over concentration would be the trick for me I suppose.
      I find that anything that requires something like talking or problem-solving makes the imagination portion of my brain falter.
      Repetitive rhythmic sounds also seem to help me transition smoothly.

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      WILD means letting go, but only just

      In the few WILDs that I have managed, I started by physically relaxing, then trying to stay aware, waiting for the onset signs, but usually I just stay in that state for ages getting nowhere. Then I eventually succumb to sleep, and with the successful WILDs there is just enough residual awareness that I snap back into an LD. It's almost like I need to forget my awareness enough to drift off, but with luck I retain enough to pull back to an LD from the non-LD. My problem then tends to be that the LD is short because I bounce back out to awake state.

      I've been working to improve my hit rate by using this method, and slowly getting better at not letting go too much too soon, I.e getting better at recognising that point of letting go and not falling completely into a non-lucid. It's a delicate balance because I find I have to allow myself to go quite deep to start the dream.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by DreamDirector View Post
      I am completely clueless on the names and methods all of you people have.
      Maybe a laymen's help would be useful?
      .
      Hey Dreamdirector, I see you are quite new to DreamViews, so this link might help with some of the acronyms (apologies if you've already got there!)
      Induction Methods and Techniques

      I can relate to what you say about your technique. If I try too hard I just get insomnia, so your description of letting your imagination work sounds a bit like my "letting go". Because WILD is about going from wake to dream directly, what you describe is the classical technique. You make no mention of hypnogogic hallucinations, so it's always a smooth transition I assume (no vibrations, noises or flashing imagery before the dream forms)?

      My problem is that in 99% of my WILD attempts I have an hour of insomnia and then just fall asleep, usually into a vivid non-lucid.

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