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    Thread: The horrible lucid dreaming experience

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      The horrible lucid dreaming experience

      February 7th is officially the day that I sat down and said. "Okay, im going to lucid dream about my happy place one day." Implying that soon enough, in a matter of time, I will have this extremely simple and effective way to get lucid dreams every night and control them with ease with minimal effort…

      Well, now it's September 3rd, 2017… 8 months since I started on this torturous and painful journey with of witch I probably haven't even scratched the surface.

      I can't tell you how pissed off I feel about lucid dreaming, that would take an example of some sort, but I can tell you the things that has made this experience such a terrible one, and why it still is a horrible experience.

      My first reason starting out this avalanche effect of ranting that is about to ensue on this entry, is that people are having such a wonderful time with lucid dreaming. They try a method once and instantly they get 10 times better what they expected and it works for them like a charm. When I try the method however. Everything that can go wrong, went super wrong and even if I DID manage to do that technique, by the mercy of my father who art in heaven, It would only happen once and I wouldn't get what I wanted from it at all. A method like WILD, where I attempted painfully for weeks on end to stay the HECK still as calmly as possible to get into sleep paralysis. I woke up in sleep paralysis one day, and I found that every thing was super vivid, but I didn't turn it into a lucid dream, I just went the hell back to sleep. In the sleep paralysis however, I didn't see all this film flam like "shadow people" and "a dark figure hovering over your body". I saw my dirty clothes written room in it's fullest, just as bland as it is when I go to sleep in it. People definitely over hyped sleep paralysis. They really want people to sit up here and believe that when you enter sleep paralysis that you are preparing for hell it's self. Maybe some people have actually been abducted by aliens in a sleep paralysis episode, and are scarred because of that, I can understand that, but people always seem to expect that the worst of the worst is going to happen to them, when all they have to do is try it and face that fear.

      Second reason, 99% of my dreams are just so unclear, so blurry to the point where it would be comparable to me strapping on a blindfold, and another blindfold on top of that, trying to look at a slightly less black, very small dot in my peripheral vision. The bad thing is that, I can remember well over 5+ dreams a night. I have very good/decent dream recall, but the dreams I manage to recall, im never fully present in the damn dream. It is literally no different than remembering a memory in real life. That is not what I want out of my dreams, if I wanted to see memories, I wouldn't of even did this in the first place. I want a fully present, awe inspiring experience every time I touch my weary head on that pillow and im just not getting that. Sure people tell me "yeah just get a dream journal" EVEN with the dream journal I still get these extreme unvivid dreams, memory-like dreams that takes up almost all of my dreams. Again, once in a blue moon, by the grace of my father that art in heaven, I magically get an amazingly vivid dream, but the thing is, I. HAVE. NO. CLUE. HOW. TO. DO. THAT. RELIABLY. I go to bed thinking "whelp, I hope I get a vivid dream tonight", and get those awful, abyss dreams that just make me feel horrible after I wake up. I've tried drinking tart cherry juice before I go to bed, all it does to me is it makes me sleep longer. No "AMAZINGLY VIVID DREAMS", just more time to spend in pointless abyss dreams. YAY… Tried meditating at least 20-30 minutes before bed, same thing, more abyss dreams. Reading my dream journal before bed, abyss dreams, no blue light or any light 30 minutes before bed, abyss dreams, staying present in waking life, abyss dreams, reality checking, abyss dreams, abyss dreams, ABYSS DREAMS. I feel like rampaging because I have so many abyss dreams, and it is driving me insane.

      Third reason, and oh man this one is a big one. The information surrounding these techniques, are so unclear and so confusing that I'd probably have a better chance of being a rocket science professor. Just like in my first point, people seem to be godly with confusing stuff on the internet. Either im dumb as a sack of rocks or they have IQ's higher than the speed of light. I go to bed thinking "I sure hope im doing it right", and after a night of abyss dreams and unpresent dreams, I wake up only to find that there is troubleshooting information (thank heavens), but of course, this is shrouded in mystery and confusion. What Mantra should I say? How should I say it? Should I say it or think it? Should I say it/think it durring the day? Should I only say it/think it when I go to sleep. There just isn't enough detailed information that could help me, out of all people. Okay sure, you can tell me to walk 20 yards and turn right, but if you tell me to walk 0.987723747 Kilometers and 5.23443 ft, and turn at the stop sign, and there's 50 stop signs… This clearly isn't a good way of explaining directions. It seems like nobody ANYWHERE knows the right stuff do to, and im tired of looking up information about a method that the "master" of said method, doesn't even know how to explain it to me.

      Fourth reason is motivation. I have lots of motivation, I managed to stay here and attempt no matter how many times I failed, and I won't quit if anything, I won't give up no matter what happens. I've survived a 3 month anti social/depression type mood and still haven't given up hope that maybe one day I'll be able to do this. Don't get me wrong, I've had lucid dreams before, it's not simply that lucid dreaming isn't for me, it's definitely for me, but it's hard to stay motivated when each day for 3 weeks, you've had no luck with lucid dreaming at all you know? It kinda makes me sad that im struggling this badly where other people are like "this is a piece of cake", its almost disrespectful to me and I don't wanna be that guy where it's like "you're living your life the way you want to with ease? That's unfair". I'm glad some of you people have done this before. It makes me a little bit less irritated because I at least know that it's possible to do!


      So this is the current state of my lucid dreaming journey. Filled with anger and impatience. I just want to fix all of these problems instead of complaining about them and trying to fix them on my own. I'm REALLY going to need some expert help with this.

      I feel kinda embarrassed by putting this out there in such a hardcore way, because I know how easily this sets me up for extremely hateful feedback, but im not angry at anybody in particular, im just angry at the practice and I hope you can understand that, maybe even you feel the same way.

      Thanks for reading.

    2. #2
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      I don't blame you at all for feeling this way - in fact, I think you're incredibly justified in this. Lucid dreaming practice is not for the faint of heart. I should know - my first 6 months of practice were incredibly fruitless, with me desperately trying every method I could find with little to no progress. So I definitely feel your pain, but 5 years and probably 400+ lucids later, I can definitely assure you that it gets better.

      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      My first reason starting out this avalanche effect of ranting that is about to ensue on this entry, is that people are having such a wonderful time with lucid dreaming. They try a method once and instantly they get 10 times better what they expected and it works for them like a charm.
      While this is true, that there are people who get immediate amazing success without any effort, I assure you that they are in the minority. In fact, in this thread over here, you can see that not many of our users got lucid in the first week of effort, with the largest group falling in the "3 months or more" category. I've even seen threads of people who spent a year or more before they finally had a breakthrough, and still believed it was worth it when they did. The truth is that everything when it comes to lucidity is different for everyone, but trust me when I say that you are not alone in not having success immediately. Which brings me to my next point:

      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      Third reason, and oh man this one is a big one. The information surrounding these techniques, are so unclear and so confusing that I'd probably have a better chance of being a rocket science professor.
      I can tell you exactly why this is - it's because lucidity is so different for everyone. People trying to make tutorials for these are trying to make sense of a completely sensory experience and put it into words, which is darn near impossible to do fully. It's like trying to describe the color red to a blind person - sure, you might be able to draw comparisons to give an idea of the concept, but you'll never be able to clarify it in a way that's the same as experiencing it. On top of this, lucidity is also different each time for each person. So tutorial writers are trying to generalize all of their experiences (with no two ever being exactly the same) and summarize it into some kind of consistent method, which is again darn near impossible.

      But here's the beauty in this: because it's impossible to fully boil lucidity down to a single method or multiple methods, you don't have to constrain yourself to a single method or multiple methods. Although the tutorials you find can be a good starting place, the majority of lucid practice is experimentation - finding the way that works best for you. In fact, sticking to the method to a tee is probably one of the worst things you can do, because then you get the anger from feeling like "I did everything right by the book, why did it not work?" With experimentation, you have the freedom to say "Okay, that didn't work last night, let's try something different tonight," in a Thomas Edison-esque "1000 ways not to make a lightbulb" scenario. So if 30-minute WBTBs make you unable to fall asleep, try doing 10 or 15 minutes instead. If you wanna try internal awareness instead of external during your reality checks, you can do that. Think of tutorials less like a concrete recipe to be followed, and more like a "serving suggestion" you might see pictured on the front of the box.

      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      A method like WILD, where I attempted painfully for weeks on end to stay the HECK still as calmly as possible to get into sleep paralysis. I woke up in sleep paralysis one day, and I found that every thing was super vivid, but I didn't turn it into a lucid dream, I just went the hell back to sleep. In the sleep paralysis however, I didn't see all this film flam like "shadow people" and "a dark figure hovering over your body". I saw my dirty clothes written room in it's fullest, just as bland as it is when I go to sleep in it. People definitely over hyped sleep paralysis. They really want people to sit up here and believe that when you enter sleep paralysis that you are preparing for hell it's self. Maybe some people have actually been abducted by aliens in a sleep paralysis episode, and are scarred because of that, I can understand that, but people always seem to expect that the worst of the worst is going to happen to them, when all they have to do is try it and face that fear.
      The whole "lying completely still" and "having to enter sleep paralysis for WILD" are both common misconceptions that we've been trying to break for the past few years, but are unfortunately still perpetuated by places like Nick Newport's Lucidology*. In truth, sleep paralysis is not only not required for WILD, but it's rare to actually have it occur while you're consciously aware of it, and even rarer to have a scary experience with it. (I've personally had about 60 WILDs, where 3 involved SP and only 1 was scary - that is, until I realized it was just a dream and overcame the fear). I'd encourage you to read these two threads below, and try your best to forget the notion that you need SP for WILD:

      Why you should forget about Sleep Paralysis (SP)
      Sleep Paralysis Explained

      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      Fourth reason is motivation. I have lots of motivation, I managed to stay here and attempt no matter how many times I failed, and I won't quit if anything, I won't give up no matter what happens.
      This makes me incredibly hopeful for your chances, that you've still stuck with it after 8 months. But at the same time, bottling up 8 months of anger at the way your practice is going can be harmful to your chances. Obviously, venting your frustrations in this thread is good to get it off your chest, but you still may have that ingrained negative schema towards going through the motions like you have. My advice would be to take a step back from it for a couple days/weeks, and just focus on releasing your stress and getting a good night's rest that entire time. Get back to seeing sleep and dreams as a positive experience, instead of a chore that you have to manipulate to what you want.

      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      Second reason, 99% of my dreams are just so unclear, so blurry to the point where it would be comparable to me strapping on a blindfold, and another blindfold on top of that, trying to look at a slightly less black, very small dot in my peripheral vision.
      Once you've decided you've had a long enough break and feel ready to try lucidity again, this is what I would suggest working on next, before even trying to actually get lucid. You're honestly at a bit of an advantage, since you said you're remembering 5+ dreams a night - recall is often the hard part for most people. Obviously getting a dream journal helps, but there's more you can do to help with the vividness of your dream. One is to pick a dream that you'd like to have, and either during the day or before bed (or both), do your best to visualize that dream in your head in as much detail as possible, engaging as many senses as possible. So if I wanted to have a dream on a beach, I would picture the sun and clouds overhead, imagine the sounds of waves crashing and seagulls flying above, imaging the feeling of my feet pressing into the sand, etc. While doing this, reaffirm to yourself repeatedly that you will have this vivid dream tonight (similar to how you would reaffirm that you will become lucid tonight, but for now we wanna start small - gotta learn to walk before you learn to run). Do this for a couple minutes each day, and/or a couple minutes before you go to bed. Don't expect anything magic to happen right away, but over time you'll notice your visualizations (and therefore, your dreams) get more vivid. I would also recommend reading this thread for more info on visualization practice.

      So my recommendation for how to proceed would be this:
      1) Take a break and focus on getting good, restful, stress-free sleep.
      2) After the break, use visualization to focus on making your dreams more vivid, before focusing on lucidity.
      3) Once you are happy with your vividness, try experimenting with different techniques (not necessarily by the book, though).

      If you ever want to talk about anything lucid dreaming, we do have an IRC chat that you can join by following the instructions here (don't use the Chat button at the top, it's broken at the moment).

      *Side note: In my opinion, don't follow ANYTHING from from Nick Newport - he's the main reason my first lucid took 6 months. All of his methods seem to revolve more around making you feel like you're getting close to lucidity, so that you're more willing to fork out the extra cash for "Part 2" to take it that last step. All of our main methods in our Induction Techniques forum are tried and true over years of experience from forum members, and the best part is that they're free - the way they should be. Just my personal opinion, anyway.
      Last edited by spellbee2; 09-04-2017 at 06:45 AM.
      "Going through life worrying about the little things is like cooking with motor oil instead of cooking oil. Sure, you can still probably pull it off, but it'll leave a bad taste in your mouth in retrospect." - Me, apparently



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      To the OP, well that's one hell of a first post!
      Why wait so long before getting some help on here? Or if you have only just discovered DV, why not start out with a more tentative post as your first one?
      If you take the time to look on here you will find much of what you need to succeed, and that starts by having a positive outlook and not spreading negative schema.
      Take a deep breath and start again?

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      Well that sure is reassuring I do need a break from it, but the thing is, I've been doing techniques and focusing on lucid dreaming so much that it is almost second nature now. I'll probably figure out some other medium to relax in. I have used visualization in the past, and i was at a point where i can day dream/meditate and it kind of felt like i was there, but i didn't really tell my self that "this will be exactly like my dreams" or something along those lines.

      What really enhanced my mood was that you linked me to another forum post where people talked about how long it took them to have stable lucid dreams, and i stumbled upon a person who it took 8years to do. Very admirable indeed.

      and i never took into consideration that the reason that people can't explain a method to me, is because the method requires you to actually feel what he is saying instead of it being told to you. Now im starting to think that all these tutorials and information isn't meant to walk you through everything, but rather force you to experiment, because before i would stay within the fine lines of the explanation and if it didn't work, i would constantly check off what i did and didn't do.

      Anyways, thanks for your help, i'll take a break from lucid dreaming for about a week, maybe two if i really enjoy it and i'll be sure to check out the resources you replied with.
      Gedackt and spellbee2 like this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Goldenspark View Post
      To the OP, well that's one hell of a first post!
      Why wait so long before getting some help on here? Or if you have only just discovered DV, why not start out with a more tentative post as your first one?
      If you take the time to look on here you will find much of what you need to succeed, and that starts by having a positive outlook and not spreading negative schema.
      Take a deep breath and start again?
      Idk man, i just felt like i had this covered and that with time i will eventually see how the techniques are supposed to be done you know? I've discovered DV a long time ago actually, matter of fact this was one of my first resources i used to get heaps of information about lucid dreaming. As time went on however, i started to ease off of this forum and started searching absolutely everywhere for some new info, although there are plenty of resources out there, i simply didn't know how to do the techniques anyways.

      Even if it was my first post, i needed to make it because i need help desperately, there weren't really any "bad lucid dreaming journey" forums posts so i decided to make one not only to get some help, but to see if im not the only one.

      I still have my positive outlook although. i focus on anything i have that's good and i enjoy it, but that is rare and im left with nothing but non ideal memories. However, i assure you im not trying to drive home anything that makes people want to quit lucid dreaming because of my experience you know? I went based off the notion that everyone here has at least started on their own lucid dreaming/astral projection paths too. I had to bring this to light because i felt like i was in the minority. As i mentioned, people seem to have a wonderful time with lucid dreaming and it's an overall positive forum that i very well enjoy, but i would be a hypocrite if i acted as if everything was peaches and cream and acting like im having a good time like everyone else.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      I had to bring this to light because i felt like i was in the minority. As i mentioned, people seem to have a wonderful time with lucid dreaming and it's an overall positive forum that i very well enjoy, but i would be a hypocrite if i acted as if everything was peaches and cream and acting like im having a good time like everyone else.
      If it makes you feel any better about the vision problems, there was a period of time after my initial lucidity breakthrough where I couldn’t see anything at all in my lucid dreams. It was quite frustrating, having heard so much about beautiful, vividly colored landscapes when I was just walking around bumping my ankles on things – and, as far as I knew, I was the only person in the world with this problem. I did eventually get it sorted out – but it led to some experiences that were interesting in their own right. And I tend to think that the focus I had to develop to keep the dream stable under those conditions is the reason why nothing can shake me out of lucidity once I’m there nowadays. There have been times when the dream – subjectively, at least - went on for hours.

      I really couldn't guess as to why you're experiencing these difficulties - but they are definitely something that can be worked with.

    7. #7
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      There was a period of time where most of my false awakenings, I had trouble with vision but mostly lighting. With me, everything would go dark, no lights would work and the dreamscape would fall apart after.

      I worked on a few ways to solve it and after enough patience and experimenting, I found the way to fix the darkness that works best for me and it also solved my problem of getting to different locations in a dream. I'm currently having trouble with getting places and am hoping to overcome it.

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      lol was it me the person who took 8 years to induce one lucid? I think so.
      Also if you want something to think about, do not ever make ideal memories of dreams. Start by enjoying what you currently have.

      I mean, it is your own dream world! If you don't enjoy it, how do you expect your unconcious part of the brain to enjoy it and give you clearer memories of it? It is like you are already trying to filter anyhting that does not fit within the ideal criteria of a dream and as such, the other dreams just get left behind.

      Just enjoy your every dream, they are all awesome in their own ways and eventually you will learn that each one has something to teach you to become lucid in the future or just general things about yourself.
      Check out my journal, Decayed, Horrid Tree journal of Hukif
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      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      Idk man, i just felt like i had this covered and that with time i will eventually see how the techniques are supposed to be done you know? I've discovered DV a long time ago actually, matter of fact this was one of my first resources i used to get heaps of information about lucid dreaming. As time went on however, i started to ease off of this forum and started searching absolutely everywhere for some new info, although there are plenty of resources out there, i simply didn't know how to do the techniques anyways.

      Even if it was my first post, i needed to make it because i need help desperately, there weren't really any "bad lucid dreaming journey" forums posts so i decided to make one not only to get some help, but to see if im not the only one.

      I still have my positive outlook although. i focus on anything i have that's good and i enjoy it, but that is rare and im left with nothing but non ideal memories. However, i assure you im not trying to drive home anything that makes people want to quit lucid dreaming because of my experience you know? I went based off the notion that everyone here has at least started on their own lucid dreaming/astral projection paths too. I had to bring this to light because i felt like i was in the minority. As i mentioned, people seem to have a wonderful time with lucid dreaming and it's an overall positive forum that i very well enjoy, but i would be a hypocrite if i acted as if everything was peaches and cream and acting like im having a good time like everyonbe else.
      Fair enough. I didn't really mean anything by my post. I suppose I was just a bit surprised by your thread. I'm sure you are not in the minority. There will be loads of others who get really frustrated with lack of progress - me included!
      You're right about the "peaches and cream" bit. There is sometimes a tendency to be over optimistic and positive from some quarters, which can be a bit annoying.
      But there is also a strong wish not to express negative schema, which I can understand as well.
      Nothing wrong with a good rant either!

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      Quote Originally Posted by LeaningKarst View Post
      If it makes you feel any better about the vision problems, there was a period of time after my initial lucidity breakthrough where I couldn’t see anything at all in my lucid dreams. It was quite frustrating, having heard so much about beautiful, vividly colored landscapes when I was just walking around bumping my ankles on things – and, as far as I knew, I was the only person in the world with this problem. I did eventually get it sorted out – but it led to some experiences that were interesting in their own right. And I tend to think that the focus I had to develop to keep the dream stable under those conditions is the reason why nothing can shake me out of lucidity once I’m there nowadays. There have been times when the dream – subjectively, at least - went on for hours.

      I really couldn't guess as to why you're experiencing these difficulties - but they are definitely something that can be worked with.
      Thats crazy lmao, I never would of thought that anything like that could even be possible. Its not too different from my experience with very low quality detailed dreams. I guess that was literally an abyss dream 😂

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      Quote Originally Posted by Hukif View Post
      lol was it me the person who took 8 years to induce one lucid? I think so.
      Also if you want something to think about, do not ever make ideal memories of dreams. Start by enjoying what you currently have.

      I mean, it is your own dream world! If you don't enjoy it, how do you expect your unconcious part of the brain to enjoy it and give you clearer memories of it? It is like you are already trying to filter anyhting that does not fit within the ideal criteria of a dream and as such, the other dreams just get left behind.

      Just enjoy your every dream, they are all awesome in their own ways and eventually you will learn that each one has something to teach you to become lucid in the future or just general things about yourself.
      8 years is absolutely mind blowing man! I pale in comparison to your efforts and experience. Highly respect you for that.


      Any lucid dreams I get I always welcome them with loving arms, I had a dream that was so vivid an life like I literally thought "I can get lucid with ease, but let me enjoy how amazing this looks!" Perfect atmosphere and detail couldn't of asked for better.

      Driving at night with my friends around town in winter was the aesthetic of the dream.... Best one I've had to date.

      This Is all fine and dandy, but my goal isn't to have 1 lucid dream, I want to subdue the dream world to a point where I'm in conscious control of at least 40% of the dream. All I want to do is Change the atmosphere, mood and look, my subconscious can take Care of the rest.

      I feel like its really ambitious though, but I'm certain there is a way 😅

      there is however a dream character that appears in my dreams with slightly more detail then the rest. It could be my dream guide, and ive been trying to get lucid so I could talk to her to learn how to get lucid effectively. Maybe this should be my goal for the time being.
      Last edited by Skipper1100; 09-05-2017 at 10:36 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Skipper1100 View Post
      8 years is absolutely mind blowing man! I pale in comparison to your efforts and experience. Highly respect you for that.


      Any lucid dreams I get I always welcome them with loving arms, I had a dream that was so vivid an life like I literally thought "I can get lucid with ease, but let me enjoy how amazing this looks!" Perfect atmosphere and detail couldn't of asked for better.

      Driving at night with my friends around town in winter was the aesthetic of the dream.... Best one I've had to date.

      This Is all fine and dandy, but my goal isn't to have 1 lucid dream, I want to subdue the dream world to a point where I'm in conscious control of at least 40% of the dream. All I want to do is Change the atmosphere, mood and look, my subconscious can take Care of the rest.

      I feel like its really ambitious though, but I'm certain there is a way 😅
      I've had a few dreams like that. They're pretty rare but they're the dream that makes you stop and just feel the experience. My best experience would either be when I was with someone else and I just looked at them and knew I was lucid and I felt the happiest I've ever felt when I flew into the sky and looked at the sky and city below. It would either be that or the experience of having fought in a large battle and after suffering heavy losses, drag yourself with your many comrades down a highway while looking at the sky which had two different coloured suns, a close planet and many different colours. It's moments like these why I still love lucid dreaming as much as I do now. I'm glad to see that you have the determination to keep going even after all you have gone through and I also look forward to seeing more posts from you!

      *Edit*
      After my whole LDing career, I haven't given much thought to things such as mood and atmosphere. I've mostly focused on active and passive control such as spawning things or preventing stuff from happening but when I look at my best lucids, they aren't amazing because of my control over them, they are amazing because of how they feel. Over the next while, I'm going to look into changing the mood of a lucid and hopefully see what yields the best results.
      Last edited by Him; 09-05-2017 at 10:44 PM.
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