Prove to me that, right now, you are not dreaming.

**Kaniaz** · 03-31-2004 10:01 PM

Okay, here's something to do. Prove to me, right now, that you are not dreaming. How can you prove to me, with definite evidence, that you are not dreaming? Saying "I can't fly" wouldn't be good enough- perhaps you're just having a time of not being able to fly? And sometimes you just can't fly anyway! Or "I can't put my hand through my monitor" isn't good enough, because sometimes you can't anyway. Pinch yourself. It hurt? How are you sure you brain didn't just imagine the hurt?

**Seeker** · 03-31-2004 10:06 PM

My eyes hurt, my back hurts, my joints hurt, I am hungry and tired.

Therefore, this must be waking reality!

Seriously, during the day, when I ask how I know that I am not dreaming, this is usually one of the ways I can tell!

**Alric** · 03-31-2004 10:08 PM

I can see my someone in my family who was being really really annoying, and I can see both my dogs at the same time, theres a stupid fly buzzing around. And the person who was being annoying and both the dogs are now sleeping. Everything that is normally in my room is there, even the piles of junk.

None of that stuff have I ever seen in a dream, and seeing as how there are so many I must be awake.

**Kaniaz** · 03-31-2004 10:10 PM

Seeker, how are you sure your brain is not just simulating the sensation of pain?
Alric, perhaps you've suddenly started seeing it? Perhaps you are in a dream right now, and believe that there are normally piles of junk in your room when you're not?

(this could go on forever, I know).

**Alric** · 03-31-2004 10:17 PM

Yea but theres enough stuff in my room right now that if my mind tried to create it all, it would of missed something. Its got all the little details though that a normal dream just leaves out.

**Kaniaz** · 03-31-2004 10:31 PM

Perhaps it's not a normal dream?

**Alric** · 03-31-2004 10:42 PM

I don't think my memory is good enough to ever make that much details though. Would have to have a photographic memory or something, and even then I bet it would take a ton of effort to make all the stuff appear and let me interact with it all. Plus I am far to aware of stuff for it to be a dream. Also dreams try to fool you into making you think they are real, so a dream person(you) would never challenge me to find a way to prove I am awake, and then argue I don't have enough proof and you want me to look for more heh.

**Howie** · 03-31-2004 11:15 PM

I am dreaming

Prove to me I am awake!

**Alric** · 03-31-2004 11:17 PM

Bah forget what I said, my dog just threw up all this yellow stuff on my bed! That is so beyond gross that I know I am awake. First off I would never dream that, and secondly I would wake up in a second!

**intent** · 03-31-2004 11:30 PM

Yogis say that "real life" is just a dream of your higher self. Supposedly when we die we just "wake up" into our higher self, scratch our head and say "gee, what a long dream"...

a dream is the same as waking life, we still have our perceptual system and intepret energy flowing in the universe. so in a sense, yah we are all dreaming now, no matter how real or painful it seems. life is just an illusion that we all from society "agree" it is "real". All the limits, scientific laws, etc, these are just societies limits taught to us since childhood and we believe them to be real, we swallow the illusion, hook, line and sinker.

What if the entire "real world" we all believe to be fixed and immovable is just only one of many worlds, but we can't see anything else because our perception is fixed on seeing only this world. What if you could wake up, and see more than what you believe to be real... Dreaming-awake opens the doors to perceive other worlds and other possibilities.

Nice topic though! great thoughts going on

**Truthbearer** · 03-31-2004 11:39 PM

Well, I would say this isn't a dream because:

1. that has happened so far is logical and has transitions from one thing to the other

2. Reality checks with my watch have been consistent with time

3. I just punched my boss in the face, hoping it would be a dream and got fired....j/k

**YULAW** · 03-31-2004 11:58 PM

Yeah I say 90% of my dreams my Dog is always taking my car.. Right now he's acting pretty normal.. He hasn't once took the keys off the kitchen counter, So therefore I must be awake..haha

**Pudgedog** · 04-01-2004 12:50 AM

I can always tell if I'm not dreaming, but can't tell if I'm dreaming when I'm actually dreaming, well its hard to explain. But when I wake up in the morning/afternoon, I know afterwards if it was a dream, cuz it seems dreams have a different kind of feeling than real life, which is impossible to explain for me at least... I'm crazy! :bravo:

**Umbrasquall** · 04-01-2004 01:02 AM

Well...

Scientifically impossible for a dream to last 10 hours. As I remember everything I did 'today', making this one 'dream'.

**Seeker** · 04-01-2004 02:28 AM

In my dreams, these things never hurt. This is because my body image is younger and hasn't been subjected to all those years of punishment that my physical body has.

**Truthbearer** · 04-01-2004 02:31 AM

Originally posted by ShadowNightWing
Yeah I say 90% of my dreams my Dog is always taking my car.. Right now he's acting pretty normal.. He hasn't once took the keys off the kitchen counter, So therefore I must be awake..haha

That's pretty funny shadow....Is it kind of like Toonces the cat who could drive, from SNL?

**Lowercase Society** · 04-01-2004 04:01 PM

Well im posting now...so how could i be dreaming...

**Lucius** · 04-01-2004 08:22 PM

Because I am not yet insane enough to dream about Kaniaz posting to give proof to him that we are not dreaming

**WerBurN** · 04-01-2004 08:29 PM

i am not dreaming because i choose to perceive this as waking life, aka not a dream, therefore to me, it is not a dream...simple

...this thread is alot like seeker's old thread 'prove to me you exist'

**Kaniaz** · 04-01-2004 09:34 PM

YOU'RE ALL SO WRONG!

Because, you see, right now, i'm that weird old man that dresses in white and controls the matrix. I have all of you plugged into it, and I actually find it quite amusing to poke big sticks at you and then watch you in the Matrix thinking "oh, I wonder what did that"?

SEE! SEE! I KNEW IT! THE MATERRRRIX HAS JOO, NEO.

**WerBurN** · 04-01-2004 09:59 PM

do i have to go over this again?

whatever exists or deos not exists matters little outside of what we see/feel/hear/etc. aka perceive...if angels exist and are all around me and are doing stuff, but i cant perceive them, then to me in my reality, they do not exist, because i do not choose to perceive them...crazy people live in their own little worlds, perceiving or not perceiving drastically different enviroments than us...deos that mean that their realities do not exist? to us maybe, yes, but to them, their reality, what they perceive, is their reality...it is real to them because they perceive it to be...if i perceive myself as not dreaming right now, then regardless of what may or may not be actually true in truth (yes, true in truth), to me, in my world, in those things that ive chosen to filter a certain way, or perceive, i am not dreaming...to me i am not dreaming because i do not perceive myself as currently dreaming...you may very well have me in the matrix, but if i do not believe in the matrix, do not choose to see it, to believe in it, then in my own little world that resides in my head, there is no matrix, and i am not dreaming...this brings about another interesting concept i am currently studying...if everone perceives the world differently, then each and every one of us is perceived differently by everyone around us...so for example, the Kaniaz that exists in my mind is basically a different person than the Kaniaz that lives in Truthbearer's mind, or even than the Kaniaz that lives in Kaniaz's mind...

whats that kaniaz? thats right, you have been pwned ;p

**Kaniaz** · 04-01-2004 10:07 PM

whats that kaniaz? thats right, you have been pwned ;p[/b]

That's your reality, and how you choose to perceive it.

Wow, I love using people's logic against them.

**WerBurN** · 04-01-2004 10:13 PM

no, i still win, cause in my reality, you have indeed been pwned ;p

...so at the very least i 'spose i have to say i won in my reality...cause i have ;p

**Kaniaz** · 04-01-2004 10:20 PM

but you have a goat in your avatar and goats are a sign of everything going right for me! Yeah! Oidnest! It's in the book called "WHY I AM SO COOL" by Me.