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    Thread: WILD - Wake Initiated Lucid Dream

    1. #276
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      Hi Sageous. Thanks for your advice. That really helps. From your post I got that REM and SP are not necessary to WILD. But is REM a necessary stage of LDreaming or normal dreaming? Yesterday I re-entered the same dream 3 times but I forgot to engage my senses in the dream and it was just a normal dream (the same dream though). What I've found out is that the 2nd time when I woke up from the dream it was 8.30am; and I re entered the dream. Then when I woke up it was 10.00am. So does that mean you can incube a re entry just when you wake up but the dream itself actually happens in REM stages (around 90 min later)? Is this what you mean with
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      my dreaming mind responds by providing dream scenery a little ahead of schedule.
      ?

      Besides, I have the same experience with hypnagogia: I have hynagogia (with auditory and visual hallucination) just after I go to bed (so not even in REM stage).

      I'm not too obsessed with REM stages but I'm trying to figure out if your mind can actually prepare the dream ahead of schedule. That would terrific.

      Thanks for your input.

    2. #277
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      I think I might have been a little unclear:

      Quote Originally Posted by Hypnopotamus View Post
      But is REM a necessary stage of LDreaming or normal dreaming?
      Of course it is. But I hope you'll bear with me for a moment because I feel that I should point out an odd twist in the popular view of sleep and dreams: REM does not cause dreaming; dreaming causes REM.

      REM is literally a symptom of dreaming: that rapid eye movement is not occurring on its own, but because your eyes are tracking the action in a dream. It follows then that you are in REM whenever you are dreaming, or rather whenever you are dreaming you are in REM. So yes, REM is a necessary stage for dreaming, but it's more the case that dreaming is the necessary stage for REM. I'm sure you already know this, as well as the things that follow, but, given the new popularity of REM and the accepted need to "catch" it so you can dream, I felt it worth mentioning.

      I could be wrong on this, but another myth that has become reality to many dreamers is that REM periods must occur in the exact intervals that all those charts and graphs dictate. Those charts are averages, not a rule, and keep in mind that they are based on a surprisingly small amount of research, and on lab work that might have an effect on the results: for instance, the sort of subject that can actually get to sleep "normally" in a lab environment with a bunch of wires taped to their skin (or, more impressively, with an fMRI machine grinding away around them) is probably going to be a fairly unique type of sleeper, but that type has become the norm, because subjects who might be light sleepers, or who have a real problem sleeping normally in strange places, are likely never studied. So the norm for sleep cycles, including the frequency and length of REM periods, may not be quite so "norm" as we imagined.

      On top of all that, I have found in my journeys that, since REM occurs whenever you are dreaming, you can pretty much enter a REM period whenever you wish to, especially late in the sleep cycle (conjuring dreams during stage 1 or 2 delta/NREM is not impossible, but problematic at best). In other words, yes, if you are taking a WILD dive right after waking from a REM period, there is no reason to assume that you will not be able to enter into a new dream right away. At worst you might have a few minutes of NREM while your dreaming mind spools up another dream, but there is no need to wait another, say, 90 minutes for a new REM period to show up on the sleep cycle schedule... unless of course you've convinced yourself that you must wait for it.

      As a sort of aside, I've come to believe that false awakenings are representative of LD'er's ability to enter REM without needing to wait for the next scheduled period. The reason, I think, that FA's content is so simple (usually "waking up" in your own bed) is because, thanks to your lucid input into things, your dreaming mind was obliged to continue processing dreams, though it was not prepared to do so, so it simply grabbed the most readily available memory for its imagery, which is where you were when you fell asleep (or perhaps where you expect to be when you wake up). So the rule for me regarding FA's is this: should one occur, just lie still and wait a moment for your dreaming mind to refire the machinery and start supplying more interesting imagery, as opposed to trying to do something, which usually taxes your dreaming mind to the point where the FA becomes more stable (no new imagery available) or you wake up (your dreaming mind throws in the towel, and your brain's wake-up systems come into play).

      Yesterday I re-entered the same dream 3 times but I forgot to engage my senses in the dream and it was just a normal dream (the same dream though). What I've found out is that the 2nd time when I woke up from the dream it was 8.30am; and I re entered the dream. Then when I woke up it was 10.00am. So does that mean you can incube a re entry just when you wake up but the dream itself actually happens in REM stages (around 90 min later)?
      Sure. If a dream has gotten a good foothold in your mind, there is no reason you can't go back to it, either immediately with a DEILD, or with your next round of dreaming if you're not lucid... and, of course, that next round is not required to be 90 minutes away, especially if you are a few hours into your night's sleep.

      Is this what you mean with ?
      No, I meant that if you desire dreams to occur a bit ahead of schedule (as with a DEILD), they will likely occur... oh, and one reason DEILD's work best if you try to reenter the dream you just exited is because the imagery already exists, so your dreaming mind has an easier time producing so "off-schedule" dream.

      But yes, and again, you can certainly incubate a dream now for your next REM period, whenever it occurs.

      Besides, I have the same experience with hypnagogia: I have hynagogia (with auditory and visual hallucination) just after I go to bed (so not even in REM stage).
      Except that I'm pretty sure that HI and REM are unrelated.

      I'm not too obsessed with REM stages but I'm trying to figure out if your mind can actually prepare the dream ahead of schedule. That would terrific.
      Yes it can, and it is.

      tl;dr: Yes, REM is a component of both lucid and normal dreaming, but REM occurs when you are dreaming, and not the other way around. So if you happen to be dreaming "off-schedule," you will also happen to be in REM off-schedule... and with lucidity, "off-schedule" REM is not only attainable, but probably pretty common (i.e., FA's). And, of course, if you expect that you will have to wait 90 minutes for your next REM period, you very likely will; try not to take all those charts too seriously.
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-20-2017 at 06:11 PM.
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    3. #278
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      Thanks. That really makes sense now.

      I was under the impression the brain would release the dream chemicals based on some schedule.

      I like the idea of refiring the machinery. I could use it as mantra That might help me to DIELD.

      Thanks for your insight.

      Cheers.
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    4. #279
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      The past three or four nights I've tried WILD. The problem is I laugh too much then try to be peaceful and go right into deep sleep and when I get to REM it is scary but not enough to make me realize I am dreaming. I get up and record the dream, then dream more and decide not to get up and record it. Any ideas on how to make WILD work?

    5. #280
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      Quote Originally Posted by rebeccaprophet View Post
      The past three or four nights I've tried WILD. The problem is I laugh too much then try to be peaceful and go right into deep sleep and when I get to REM it is scary but not enough to make me realize I am dreaming. I get up and record the dream, then dream more and decide not to get up and record it. Any ideas on how to make WILD work?
      Just take your time and follow the basic instructions on the first page of this thread. It is an fairly advanced mental task, and takes a huge shift in the mind to get good at. That takes time. It may take months, or a few years. You will still have the rest of your life to enjoy it. Do not push, just go through the steps and observe anything you can. Repeat, over and over for the rest of your days.

      Aside from that learn to do DILD, it is often a prerequisite for learning WILD. Keep your view of the process simple. You are trying to relax the body while barely keeping the mind aware. To much focus or thinking can prevent sleep. Finally for normal WILDs remember that you want to fall asleep. Falling asleep and not getting lucid is not failing. It is an attempt that did not yield a dream. Failing to relax enough to fall asleep is failing to complete the process.
      Last edited by sivason; 07-02-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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    6. #281
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      Yea I'm a newbie still haven't had my first LD (will have one soon though). This tutorial has helped me greatly, one I've known this site for 2 days and it has helped me so much, and two Before I knew this site I kept and kept on looking for wild tutorials cause all the others didn't explain enough or they are confusing, but this perfectly explains it the see I always tried the wild as soon as I'm going to sleep now I will try later but even though I tried it at as soon as go to sleep I have made some insights.
      ---------
      So we don't need SP to enter WILD or Is it not important?
      ---------
      Wait so every time I was attempting WILD I have experienced the feeling of it would be hard to move and it is like that for a long time so after a while I decided to stop the attempt I easily move and by the word sivason on another forum he said " I sometimes feel as if moving would be hard but that is a natural feeling because my body is asleep." Is this true?
      Last edited by sivason; 08-11-2017 at 03:34 AM. Reason: triple post. Use edit if you posted last.

    7. #282
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      Quote Originally Posted by ARandomViewer View Post
      So we don't need SP to enter WILD or Is it not important?
      ---------
      Wait so every time I was attempting WILD I have experienced the feeling of it would be hard to move and it is like that for a long time so after a while I decided to stop the attempt I easily move and by the word sivason on another forum he said " I sometimes feel as if moving would be hard but that is a natural feeling because my body is asleep." Is this true?
      S.P. is really unrelated. Give this thread a read, Sleep Paralysis Explained

      As far as your question about sleeping, I suppose only you will be able to decide if you are consciously experiencing sleep. I am sure there are many layers to the process of relaxing the body all the way up to true sleep. If I do this process and end up asleep, but aware I feel almost like I am on narcotics. I retain less than about 20% of my bodily awareness. I can indeed sense my hands, feet and so on, I can move them if need be, but with a need to exert my will. Just experiment and learn to relax more and more.
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    8. #283
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      Ok that sounds about it think. I've read the SP Explained pretty good read. And on the WILD tutorial or another page (I'm to lazy to go back and read) you or someone else said WILD is basically like sleep than maintaining awareness, Then I have something I want to try just try to go to sleep for a while, Then initiate WILD cause I would already be close to being asleep and that would lessen the time (would lessen the time for me at least cause I go to sleep faster while just purely trying to sleep) should I try this or do you think it would mess up the WILD.

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