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    Thread: Using random number generation to catch false awakenings

    1. #26
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      Attempt 18: failure

      Had a non-lucid dream where I ingested a can of galamnatine or something that was significant for some reason (may have been that it was supposed to increase the chance of lucid dreams). It tasted kind of gooey, and was sweet, but with mediocre flavor.

      Went on to read a piece of paper saying that the mixture was dangerous, as tested on a group of 10 people or so, of whom one was my sister. Spent rest of the dream reading over the results (who says you can't read in dreams? I definitely did... a lot...), and then relaying them to my dad, who was in the next room.

      Success rate: 13/18 (11 weak, 2 full)

      P.S. The dreaded technique decay (regarding success-rate) seems to be having some effect now. Nonetheless, I will continue to the 30 lucid mark.

    2. #27
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      Attempt 19: unsure

      Not sure whether to categorize this as a weak lucid or non-lucid. Lucid dreaming was definitely interwoven into the dream, but unsure of if I had a moment where I distinctly understood, "I am dreaming right now".

      For example, at one part I was on a massive structure with hundreds of metal bars interlinking. I wanted to get back to the top as the view was really nice, but the "distant grabbing and hoisting" I'd been using earlier was failing to work. So I considered some other options like flying, or straight up teleporting. Supports lucidity, but too weak on its own to establish it. (before this I had also been using other powers like spewing fireballs from my hands, recognized as a power I was training)

      In another area, I was exploring into a bamboo forest following/with someone else. As we went in deeper, the path started circling, and at the center there was a dark patch that I kinda wanted to avoid. So I detached my focus from the dream and softly-teleported to back outside the forest. I then got distracted by someone telling me the group I was with would be leaving soon.

      In another area, Sageous answered a PM I sent. It was three or four paragraphs long, with a link to a thread in the middle. I read through it, though don't remember what it said anymore other than the tone/overall meaning.

      In another area, Sageous had a physical area next to a forest--a class or learning zone of some sort--where I and some others were going as a way to renew focus on having high-quality lucid dreams. He had set up a small sign in the clearing (describing the zone's purpose), and I joined in by creating a small sphere, and summoning a permanent marker, with which I started writing a message affirming my intention/considerations. Unsure how much I understood this as being itself a part of a lucid dream, as I don't remember the before and after.

      I'd say that of the four, the second one is most likely to show lucidity, as that's a legacy triggering from childhood that whenever something gets too scary, I recognize it as a dream and remove myself from the situation somehow (usually by waking up). While it didn't trigger the full recognition process of reality checks and such, the fact that I consciously deteriorated the dream scene is just enough in the direction of contextual understanding that I'm going to categorize it as a weak lucid I think. If you disagree, feel free to adjust the stats. (in either case, the intention is to convert these in-between states into full lucids anyway, so hopefully this categorization won't matter too much in a few weeks)

      Success rate: 14/19 (12 weak, 2 full)
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-12-2017 at 06:02 PM.

    3. #28
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      Still very interesting, maybe you should do a few month graph (instead of a given amount of LDs) of the history of your success to see if the technique's efficiency decrease with time.
      The idea behind this technique reminds me another technique I have used for a little while :
      http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...b-newbies.html

      My way of using it, if I remember well, was this :
      1) I set a vibrating alarm watch to wake me up after a certain amount of sleep.
      2) when the watch wakes me up I do a short WBTB during which I put an ear plug in my ear (or pillow speaker or whatever I can hear) linked to a small MP3 player I have attached to my hand in a way it is very easy to press the play button.
      In the mp3 player is recorded a message with my own voice that says something like "this is a successful reality check, stay focus on the incoming vibes".
      just after that I start another vibrating device (gymboss) that will vibrate every 25 min for exemple.
      3)I just let myself fall asleep.
      4) each time I feel the gymboss vibrating I press the mp3 player button
      -if the message is clear and normal I am probably awake, I just let myself fall back asleep.
      -if the message is different, or strange, I am probably in a FA and I can start a LD.

      I think the philosophy of this technique is the same as yours, the only main difference is that it involves a movement to trigger the mp3 player, which is not very DEILD friendly, it also involves a couple of wires, so it's a bit more complicated, but I think those two techniques are more based on FA detection than on DEILD/WILD right?

      Indeed I also was using the mask of the rem dreamer (mask only, without the device inside) that had a flat speaker in the stretching band.
      Later I let this technique aside and started to experiment with my REM Dreamer Pro that allowed me to record a vocal message, and sometimes the message I was earing during the night wasn't exactly the recorded message.

      That's why I find you technique, and the technique I quoted a very promising path.
      Last edited by Kaan; 01-12-2017 at 08:58 PM.

    4. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      Still very interesting, maybe you should do a few month graph (instead of a given amount of LDs) of the history of your success to see if the technique's efficiency decrease with time.
      Yeah, I'll probably do this eventually. I'm too lazy right now, though. (also, I don't want it to subconsciously affect the results, as it's slightly more... visceral than just a number tally)

      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      The idea behind this technique reminds me another technique I have used for a little while :
      http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...b-newbies.html

      My way of using it, if I remember well, was this :
      1) I set a vibrating alarm watch to wake me up after a certain amount of sleep.
      2) when the watch wakes me up I do a short WBTB during which I put an ear plug in my ear (or pillow speaker or whatever I can hear) linked to a small MP3 player I have attached to my hand in a way it is very easy to press the play button.
      In the mp3 player is recorded a message with my own voice that says something like "this is a successful reality check, stay focus on the incoming vibes".
      just after that I start another vibrating device (gymboss) that will vibrate every 25 min for exemple.
      3)I just let myself fall asleep.
      4) each time I feel the gymboss vibrating I press the mp3 player button
      -if the message is clear and normal I am probably awake, I just let myself fall back asleep.
      -if the message is different, or strange, I am probably in a FA and I can start a LD.
      Yeah, I saw that one! And I do think it's pretty similar--though the execution/variables are changed quite a bit. For example, this one plays all night, and every 2 minutes. Also, this one's intended to be varied each time in message and tone, to try to evade the ignoring by the brain. And then there's also the number prompts, which are supposed to catch false awakenings. I haven't really gotten to test it yet, as I haven't had any prolonged false-awakenings with it so far!

      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      I think the philosophy of this technique is the same as yours, the only main difference is that it involves a movement to trigger the mp3 player, which is not very DEILD friendly, it also involves a couple of wires, so it's a bit more complicated, but I think those two techniques are more based on FA detection than on DEILD/WILD right?
      Yeah, I think they share more similarities with each other than DEILD/WILD, in that they're focusing on FA detection, and/or signalling while in a normal dream, rather than transitioning into a lucid dream directly.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      Indeed I also was using the mask of the rem dreamer (mask only, without the device inside) that had a flat speaker in the stretching band.
      Later I let this technique aside and started to experiment with my REM Dreamer Pro that allowed me to record a vocal message, and sometimes the message I was earing during the night wasn't exactly the recorded message.
      Ah nice! So you've gotten similar results on that point. Indeed, it is funny to hear the number-prompt voice suddenly decide to say something out of its script.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      That's why I find you technique, and the technique I quoted a very promising path.
      Thanks! Yeah, despite it's currently weak rate of full lucids, the fact that it so often spawns weak ones is enough for me to be optimistic it'll turn out useful.

      And today increases that optimism as I just had a third full-lucid with it. [entry coming in a bit]
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-13-2017 at 07:17 PM.

    5. #30
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      Attempt 20: full lucid!

      Now this one was kind of embarrassing, so I don't think I'll include the dream entry. But it was a nice and vivid one, with full knowledge of the dreaming state (i.e. knew what a dream was, that this was one, that my real body was back in bed, that physical laws need not apply and such), and involved dancing!

      In real-life I'm far too embarrassed to do so, but when you know it's all a dream, and the characters feel like a part of you, you can be much more bold/experimental!

      Success rate: 15/20 (12 weak, 3 full)

    6. #31
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      Attempt 21: full lucid!

      Note however that:
      1: This morning's "attempt" was actually cut in two pieces; the first I was interrupted from and wasn't able to go over the memories of. Because of that I counted it as merged with the second half, which I went back to as soon as I could (and would have stayed in from the first part if I hadn't been interrupted). If you disagree with this merging, you can adjust the stats accordingly.
      2: I'm now taking part in Spellbee's lucid-dreaming competition. (as seen here: http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-chal...on-2017-a.html) Because it's really fun, this will probably inflate my success rate with this technique some. (which is... okay, although does make it a little less organic)

      Anyway, still happy as this was the longest/best LD I've had in at least a few weeks.

      Dream entry: 2017-01-14 10:12 -- Visited book world, found possible dgs (bruce, peter, jj), "recorded" song - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      Success rate: 16/21 (12 weak, 4 full)

    7. #32
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      Attempt 22: full lucid

      Dream entry: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/venr...present-79612/

      However, same as yesterday: had an interrupted first section without known results, followed by going back to sleep and getting a lucid.

      This is somewhat unfortunate as it's both disrupting the "single attempt" analysis, as well as essentially combining this technique with the WBTB one.

      Because of this, I think it's best to give up on one general attempt-level stat, and instead separate it into categories:
      1) Long sleep
      2) Post-sleep nap (shortly after an earlier sleep/nap; not necessarily long enough prior sleep to be a "WBTB")
      3) Isolated nap

      Also, now all sleep sessions will be included; if it was interrupted, it will just add to the attempt-count in parentheses.

      I like this system, as it lessens the data-muddling from other sleep influences, but it's brings up the question of what to do with the existing stats.

      On that: I think I'm going to have to go back and do my best to categorize them into this new system. (I didn't want to do this, but I don't want to start back at zero!)

      So, if goes as planned, the new stats/categorization should be up in a bit, below.
      ==========
      Oh also, I'm changing the definition of "full lucid" and "weak lucid" to as follows:
      * Full lucid: lucid dreams in which I substantially connect with my daytime existence. (examples: doing reality-checks, remembering dream goals, remembering current events)
      * Weak lucid: lucid dreams in which I do not substantially connect with my daytime existence. (i.e. realize I'm dreaming, but just go with the flow, not remembering the daytime perspective, which would open up more interesting options)
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-15-2017 at 10:24 PM.

    8. #33
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      The below is a recategorization of the existing entries. I did my best to make it accurate (e.g. adding entries for all interrupted sleep sessions, including the really short ones), but I may still have messed up in some places. (if you notice such a case, please mention!)

      Anyway, this should be nice going forward, as all data (including interrupted sessions) can be entered without worry of corrupting the main results.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 14/17(+5 interrupted) (10 weak, 4 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 3/4 (0 weak, 3 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full)
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-16-2017 at 02:17 AM.

    9. #34
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      Attempt: failed

      I had only ~2 hours before wake-up, so expected not to get any results, but tried anyway.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 14/17(+6 interrupted) (10 weak, 4 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 3/4 (0 weak, 3 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full)

      ==========


      Exciting note!: I recently purchased the S+ sleep tracker from ResMed, and it seems to be working really nicely!

      Here is a recording of my first full night of sleep with it on: Attachment 9685

      As can be seen it produces clean, analyzable data for the whole night. It correctly showed that I awoke from (or very near to) a dream (non lucid) at the end, as well as showed rem cycles at roughly 90-minute intervals.

      Here is a second recording from a short nap: Attachment 9686

      In it, I woke directly from a lucid dream, so I know the section of REM at the end is accurate.

      And finally, here is the screenshot from this last sleep session: Attachment 9687

      As can be seen, I had about 45 minutes of rem, and when I woke up, I was not in REM (as matches with my memory).

      Three other points that make me a very happy camper:
      1) I got it for only $23 on eBay.
      2) The device is contact-free! It just sits next to your bed pointed at you while you sleep, and apparently uses something like sonar to track your breathing patterns--and from it infers your sleep state. (which is pretty interesting/impressive, even just for the results I've gotten so far)
      3) It has a nice app for Android. You know what this also means... I should be able to hook it up with my Lucid Link app in the future! (if not with an official API, I should be able to figure it out from how their app does it--or if not, fall back to accessing the app's data-files/network-requests to accomplish the same)

      That said, it's obviously not perfect! One of my naps I was unable to get to sleep, but it only showed ~60% of my time as "awake". That's still pretty impressive, imo, but does show that it uses approximation/inference, so will not be accurate in every case.

      Anyway, I plan to start posting these sleep charts on here with my sleep sessions going forward--at least for a while so people can see how it works/its accuracy level.

    10. #35
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      Attempt: weak lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-15 13:15 -- Very short lucid at dock with kid - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9688

      This one was actually quite clear (and would have had waking memories if it didn't end early, I believe), so I want to categorize it as a full lucid; but for the sake of consistency in following my categorization I'll mark it as a weak one.

      Also note that the sleep graph didn't catch the rem session this time; that's actually not that surprising, though, since from what I remembered/felt, the dream had only started ~2 minutes earlier.

      Anyway, not a great one, but still felt nice.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 14/17(+6 interrupted) (10 weak, 4 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 4/5 (1 weak, 3 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full)

    11. #36
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-17 6:40 -- Fighting hooded enemy - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9689

      Had a lucid which I woke myself up from at 6:40 (as can be seen on the sleep graph--but is independently known as I checked the clock when I woke up).

      Decided to wake myself up because my enemy wasn't stopped by my attempt to control time, and I've still not gotten over my reactionary behavior from childhood where I'd wake myself up from nightmares. Hence I categorized it as a full lucid, as nightmares/sleep exit attempts always flood back knowledge of the waking world in the final moments (as the destination to be sought). Someday I'll muster the courage and start facing negative entities instead of just exiting!

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+6 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 4/5 (1 weak, 3 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).

    12. #37
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      I was wondering, do you user a form of acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, like galantamine, or any other supplements in parallel to your technique?

    13. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      I was wondering, do you user a form of acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, like galantamine, or any other supplements in parallel to your technique?
      No. I might try them someday, but so far have just used techniques.

    14. #39
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-17 11:52 -- Bomb-shelter, rail trip to coast city, restaurant and mall - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9691

      A nice and long lucid, though with fluctuation in my awareness throughout the ~30 minute dream (as shown by graph, as well as memory).

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+6 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 5/6 (1 weak, 4 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).

      P.S. Anyone know how to get the image attachments to show as a small thumbnail, instead of just being a link?

    15. #40
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      Attempt: failed but only because I got woken up within the hour.

      On second thought, there's one category I am going to ignore completely: sleep sessions where I'm woken up before even one rem cycle has finished. That's what happened this time, and it's too annoying to count as even an "interrupted" attempt.

      "Interrupted" sleeps will still be entered here, but they have to have at least one uninterrupted rem segment to count (as shown by my S+ sleep tracker), or last at least 2 hours. If either of those conditions are met, then I will enter it here anyway. Ones that fail both criteria will just not be mentioned because they had no chance (like this time).

      Argh. And I felt like I would have gotten a lucid this time, too... (which would have been three in one day )

    16. #41
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      Attempt: failed

      Dream fragment: played a video on my tablet, which ended up mixing with the physical space, and I ended up waking myself up trying to turn it off
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9692

      As can be seen from the sleep graph, it took me a long time to fall asleep (ignore the early "sleep" segment), and the dream above had me wake from the first rem cycle that did finally come. I do see this wake-up as good, as dreams where I wake from action/excitement tend to have more awareness (i.e. are more conducive to lucids), but this time it didn't translate into an actual lucid. (unfortunately, I didn't turn the sound prompts back on after this awakening, and then was interrupted/awoken again about two hours later, so it hasn't gotten a second chance yet this morning--I'm still tired, though, so will start one more attempt in a few minutes )

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+7 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 5/6 (1 weak, 4 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).
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    17. #42
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream: This one involved a get-together at our grandparents, during which I realized I was dreaming just after watching a long film.
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9694

      The sleep graph got the overall rem sessions correct, but it marked the last one as lapsing into light sleep toward the end, when in fact the rem continued till I woke up.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+7 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 6/7 (1 weak, 5 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-18-2017 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Fixed broken sleep-graph link... (not sure how it broke)

    18. #43
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      Since yesterday 17:58 to today 22:20 (in my own time), you have reported 5 attempts.
      How do you manage to make 5 attempts in 2 days?

    19. #44
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      Most mornings my main sleep gets interrupted by having to wake and get my younger brother off to school. (he's disabled) This means one "night" attempt, and one "morning" attempt most days. (you can also see this from the hour marks on the sleep graphs--the wake-up period lasts from 40-120 minutes, and then my second session begins)

      Right now is 2pm for me, so I just recently completed the "morning" attempt for today. (which was successful; my "night" sleep for today was the fail posted just before it, earlier this morning)

      I also sometimes take naps later in the day--or even shortly after my "morning" sleep, if I'm still not rested enough. (especially the case if I succeed in having a lucid in the middle of the first rem segment)

      Yes, it's not an ideal sleep schedule, but it actually works all-right, and provides multiple, shorter attempts at LDing each day. (as can be seen from the stats, it works a lot more consistently for the "morning" (post-sleep nap) attempts--though works a fair amount for the night sleep as well)
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    20. #45
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      ok. I understand better.
      It seams that only the last attachement link works (9694)
      when I clic on the others I have "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

    21. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kaan View Post
      ok. I understand better.
      It seams that only the last attachement link works (9694)
      when I clic on the others I have "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"
      Yeah, I noticed that. It's odd because they worked when I first made the posts (I usually check them afterward). It's also odd that sometimes their thumbnails show up, but other times they don't, seemingly without pattern. (I tried some variations like using/not-using preview/advanced-mode)

    22. #47
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      Attempt: failed

      Sleep graph: Attachment 9695

      As can be seen, I was in my third rem segment when awoken. I remember being in a dream, but didn't have time to recollect, so the memory is now gone.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+8 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 5/6 (1 weak, 4 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).

    23. #48
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      Venryx's Avatar
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-19 10:59 -- Alien battle, number prompt, checking goals on tablet in bed - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Screenshot_2017-01-19-11-24-59.jpg

      This one was neat because I heard the number prompt and remembered three digits from it: 5, 9, and 7 (and that it had a female tone)

      Here's the number-prompt log from the end:
      Spoiler for :


      Now note that there are two prompts that match. However, the second one (third last overall), is only a couple minutes from the end of the dream (the last one was after I'd awoken), which matches with my memory well. So I became lucid at almost exactly: 10:45:15.425

      Anyway, a very short lucid, but still nice. (and helpful in the ld competition I'm currently in )

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 15/18(+8 interrupted) (10 weak, 5 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 6/7 (1 weak, 5 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).

    24. #49
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Referrer Bronze Made Friends on DV Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-20 -- Outside our house at night, on bike around loop, upstairs grand bedroom - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9697

      What makes this lucid interesting is that it occurred within just 6 minutes (approximately--according to the S+ tracker) of the first rem segment of the night! That's quite rare, as normally it takes at least 2 or 3 rem cycles before I gain clarity enough to trigger lucidity. (note that I say "of the night" at 11am, because I went to bed at 5am, but couldn't get to sleep within the pre-8am segment, meaning I had to wait until my post-8am attempt period)

      The lucid itself was not great in terms of things accomplished, or robustness (I had a couple points where it faltered, e.g. I had trouble moving my arm forward), but the visual and mental clarity was there (for certain moments in it anyway).

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 16/19(+8 interrupted) (10 weak, 6 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 6/7 (1 weak, 5 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).
      Last edited by Venryx; 01-20-2017 at 08:32 PM. Reason: typo

    25. #50
      Member Achievements:
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      Attempt: full lucid

      Dream entry: 2017-01-20 13:57 -- Inflatable speedboat, asking the wrong question - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      Sleep graph: Attachment 9698

      I tried to do my next dream goal on my 4-item quick-list, but misremembered it.

      Success rates:
      Long sleep: 16/19(+8 interrupted) (10 weak, 6 full)
      Post-sleep nap: 7/8 (1 weak, 6 full)
      Isolated nap: 0/0 (0 weak, 0 full).

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