Using random number generation to catch false awakenings

**Venryx** · 12-30-2016 04:16 PM

Most of you have probably already seen some threads on the idea of having audio files playing during sleep to induce lucidity.

Well, my interest has come back to that idea, after thinking of some modifications to it that I'd like to try:
1) Instead of having a preset audio track, put together a large collection of varied phrases, and have it randomized each time to make it more interesting to listen to. This should hopefully reduce the amount your brain ignores the messages.

For example, you could have entries added for each of your friends and family members, and people from dream-views. Perhaps hearing their names mixed in with lucid dreaming keywords will break the phrases out of the "ignore" pile, to have you actually think about them more while in-dream. Especially if the names used are for people that appear commonly in your dreams.

What's nice is that a text-to-speech engine is used to speak the phrases, so you don't need to find and record a human voice actor for each phrase. (we could also try having it randomly change the pitch, speed, and volume of the text-to-speech voice, to make it more interesting to your dreaming self)

2) Find a way to embed reality-checks within the messages that doesn't require any movement or heavy mental focus. The idea is to have you still fall asleep, but just lightly monitoring the messages for if the passive reality-check ever starts failing, and revealing itself as just a dream replica. This will help you catch false awakenings without having to break your deepened state by doing nose-plug tests or the like.

Now some might be wondering what a passive, audio-based reality check would look like.

I think there are a few different candidates, but this one currently seems most promising:
* Every minute or so, have the app generate a random number, and use the text-to-speech engine to speak it. Not just any random number, however: it has to be a four digit number, and either all four digits have to be even, or all four digits have to be odd. So 1539 is valid, as is 2044, but not 1948.

Now what this does is it forces your brain to try to replicate the random number generation every minute--else it wouldn't match your sleep conditions, and you'd know you were in a false awakening. If it does replicate the random number generation, then it has to generate those numbers very carefully. It can't just spew random nonsense, like it normally does, else 90% (technically 87.5%) of the time it would give a number that's a mix of evens and odds, and you'd be tipped off to the number's source. It also can't just give the same number each time, as the numbers are supposed to be random each time. (if it becomes a problem, we can modify the app's random number generator to ensure that the same number is never given twice in the same session)

I'm honestly very curious whether the subconscious mind is capable of playing the game above, and generating consistently valid matches to the "either all even or all odd" challenge. If it is, then well-played, subconscious. If not, then we've gotcha.

What's nice is it's pretty easy to evaluate whether a number matches (I've tried it the last two sleep sessions, and could do it fine for as long as my memory recorded), but at the same time, it's something that you have to evaluate after-the-fact, so your subconscious mind can't just generate whatever you're thinking of consciously. It's forced to do the generation itself, and you just act as a lazy evaluator of that number a couple seconds afterward.

Anyway, I'll be trying it the next couple weeks and recording my results here. I've tried it in two sleep sessions so far, and while it hasn't triggered lucidity either of those times, I do have shadowed memories from both times of hearing numbers generated while in-dream, or at least on the verge of ones (one was in-bed, another with me floating above a video game space station). I was probably just too brain-dead/dream-focused to pay attention in those moments, but I'm hoping that with enough nights of having random numbers playing continually, I'll grow to have some persistent knowledge of what those numbers mean (i.e. as dream signs/tests) and remember to evaluate them out of habit.

Then, lucidity every night! : P (as if...

)

Let me know if any of you want to join me. I don't currently have the app uploaded to Google Play, but I can if others have interest in it. (I'll be uploading it soon anyway, but this would prompt me to do it a bit sooner)

**Venryx** · 12-31-2016 07:46 AM

Attempt 1: no results

Success rate: 0/1

**Venryx** · 12-31-2016 10:05 AM

Attempt 2: interesting, partial success!

This time I added randomization on the voice's pitch, and it seemed to make my subconscious focus on it much more. Instead of passing it off like an alarm, it integrated it into the dream as the dream's narrator/storyteller. I was still too stupid to remember the meaning of the numbers thoroughly, but the dream took off with it, and used the alternating deep and high voice to say all sorts of things interspersed with the actual number reading.

For example, it was telling an interesting story about this group of travelers that had fighting amongst a man's sons for leadership, and having to get past various terrain challenges.

It also caused my brain to cast the voices as a story, but one which I was listening to (yet also finding myself in alternately), with me in bed... but someone else listening to the story with me. So it had two scenarios going on, and I interacted in both. (for example, person in room wanted me to pause at one point and rewind the story to a part she didn't understand)

It also made a joke, I think: "If a man, wearing red shoes outside a department store, found himself with his hand on a woman's purse, what would he do?" (suggesting running away and stealing it) "Nothing! He'd have more to be concerned about than the purse."

Anyway, off to try attempt 3. (If I can fall asleep again)

Success rate: 1/2

P.S. Oh, the reason I count it as a success is because I also had a short bit of lucidity right at the end (it's actually what caused me to awake I think): when the story said they entered a huge field of hay, I saw visuals of it, and felt the "dream sense", so started flying toward it with budding awareness that I was dreaming. Thinking on this track, I sadly caused the visuals to fade, and found myself back in bed, with robot-voice. (it sounds like a robot when it changes tone all the time, haha) I could maybe have gotten back in, but I wanted to record the first partial success rather than enjoy the individual lucid dream.

**Venryx** · 01-01-2017 01:07 AM

Attempt 3: success

I had two false awakenings this time, with both of them caused by number prompts. (whether real or dreamt)

This was also the first time where I successfully performed an evaluation of one of the number prompts. And interestingly, it successfully passed the "all either even or odd" requirement. (they were all even)

Now either that was a real prompt from my tablet, or it was one generated by my subconscious. If generated by my subconscious, then that's one data-piece in favor of it being able to understand and emulate my pattern requirement. If not, then that's fine, although my (admittedly hazy) memory thought the number ended with "0 2", and my app's number-generation log doesn't seem to contain such a number in the last few minutes.

Here's the log from the part I was lucid in: (I know because a "Peter Pan" prompt occurred shortly before falling asleep; the peoples' names are mostly family and friends, by the way, you can ignore them)

Spoiler for Dream prompts log:

I won't be able to sleep for quite a while, unfortunately, so the next test will have to wait a good 10 hours or so--which is one drawback of doing lucid dream experiments: having to learn patience.

Success rate: 2/3

**Venryx** · 01-02-2017 06:46 AM

Attempt 4: success

Though it wasn't very interesting--at least the part I can remember. It was one of those "minimal" lucids, where you realize you're dreaming, but don't take advantage of the fact or remember dream goals and such. I did have one false-awakening that I recognized and returned-to-lucid from, but that's about all I remember well. I may have also heard one number prompt, but I forget now as I fell back asleep (without having the app enabled) after that.

Success rate: 3/4

**Venryx** · 01-02-2017 12:42 PM

Attempt 5: success

Dream entry: (names replaced with first letter from now on)

Spoiler for Dream entry:

Success rate: 4/5

**Venryx** · 01-03-2017 01:15 AM

Attempt 6: success

Spoiler for Dream entry:

Not sure how much earlier from the in-dream-bed part was lucid, but that part definitely was, as I was weighing whether her responses as a DC were clear enough from my imagination to count toward "subconscious experiments/questioning" when I couldn't see her. (and I know I was still in-dream because it was pitch black, whereas in fact it's still daytime; there were also visuals when she tried responding to questions, and even people cheering and such who had come with me to the caretaker groups)

That said, it was not a full-blown/taken-advantage-of lucid, as I either didn't remember my main dream goals, or I decided to forgo them for some reason.

Success rate: 5/6

**Venryx** · 01-03-2017 03:44 AM

Attempt 7: was close, but failure

The end of the regular part of my dream had me arguing with someone else about their policies "managing" volunteers for something. Then something caused me to snap back into my bed.

I then realized I'd been dreaming, of course. Sometime in the next minute or so, I wound up looking here on DreamViews and reading through this thread in fact.

Then... I woke up for real, when a number prompt played. I knew I woke for real then because: 1) The sound of my fan faded in. 2) The weight-feeling of my body faded in. (I think I had some weight-feeling in-dream, but it was different and not as strong)

Sad because if I had remembered to do the "roll out of bed", I probably would have gotten an LD! (as the dream was vivid, and my mind felt prepared for one)

Success rate: 5/7

**Venryx** · 01-04-2017 06:21 AM

Attempt 8: weak success

I had another minimal lucid, where I recognized I was dreaming and exerted some dream control, but didn't remember/work-toward my planned dream goals.

Also, had an interesting case this time of the number prompt being spoken by a dc, simply and matter-of-factly. (and it was valid)

Success rate: 6/8

P.S. Don't drink a Starbucks Mocha just before going to sleep. I've never actually confirmed the effect of caffeine on sleep in an experimental/statistical way, but today would seem to support it. Took me about 4/5 hours to get to sleep despite having been pretty tired. Will have to experiment with this more in the future to confirm. (or look up statistical studies on its effects or something, as well as info on how much it varies per person)

**Venryx** · 01-04-2017 03:54 PM

Attempt 9: weak success

Again had a lucid dream, but failed to remember my main dream goals.

And there are some things I've been really wanting to try too!

Spoiler for Dream entry:

Success rate: 7/9

**Venryx** · 01-06-2017 08:51 PM

Attempt 10: success... for five seconds

Spoiler for Dream entry:

So yeah, another very lame, momentary lucid; at least this time I was mentally ready to take advantage of it, but this time the problem was a failure to disconnect from my real body (i.e. its sensory input) in a shallow false awakening. Raduga's techniques are exactly what I needed here, but I didn't get results in the first few seconds, so got impatient and accidentally broke the situation. (tried to move my legs slowly and gently off the bed...

)

Probably I need to do some more mental conditioning for when I first become lucid; I have a good enough induction rate, but most of the time I instantly botch it. I'll look into this more once I've tested this technique further. (I'm aiming for 30 lucids with this technique in lock-down before I begin branching out, i.e. optimizing the technique, recording clear instructions, and working on my mental preparation to better handle the weak lucid situations this technique seems to often produce)

Success rate: 8/10

P.S. Sorry the delay from the last attempt was so long. Both of the last two night's main sleeps were unattempted because I fell asleep accidentally before turning the app on. I was annoyed that I missed last night's as well, so I struggled and finally managed to get back to sleep for a nap just now; it paid off, although this might also be why my dream was so shallow/easy to break.

**Kaan** · 01-07-2017 08:52 AM

Pretty interesting.
I'm not sure to understand one thing: when exactly (and how long) do you start the random play every minute?
Is that all night long?
If yes how do you even manage to fall asleep and how do you manage not to be done with this invading audio all night long?

**Venryx** · 01-07-2017 07:38 PM

I start the number prompts whenever I lie down to sleep (well, when I feel like it). The number prompts then occur every 2 minutes, and yes, all night long (or however long I sleep anyway).

How do I manage to fall asleep? It's not actually that hard. The prompt is loud enough to hear the words, but not so loud it's jarring. It does have some impact on fall-asleep time, but not enough to be an issue. (I'd say it increases the fall-asleep time by ~30%)

Likewise, it's quiet enough to not be disturbing during your sleep. (i.e. it doesn't wake you up from dreams--unless by way of lucidity and then a botched attempt : P)

So yeah, so far it's been successfully treading the line between too quiet to have effect, and too loud to stay asleep; I plan to continue testing it till at least 30 lucids, to see if the induction rate holds up throughout that period.

**Venryx** · 01-07-2017 08:02 PM

Attempt 11: failure

This attempt was cut short (to 1-2 hours), so perhaps it would have succeeded if uninterrupted, but oh well. I'll just try again tonight.

One interesting thing this attempt was a lot of odd perceptions of the number prompts this attempt. At least a half dozen times, I was confused because I kept hearing... oddness mixed in with the prompts. For example, the numbers kept getting slurred more than normal, with me barely being able to make out the digits. And a number of times the voice seemed almost dreamlike, in that it seemed partially receptive to my emotional state. I thought I might be in a false awakening a few times, and perhaps I was, although the times I checked I wasn't.

Anyway, it was interesting, but a failure overall. I did have some vivid non-lucids, but because of the interruptions I didn't have a chance to go back through my memories of it or record it. Anyway: onward to the 30 lucid mark!

Success rate: 8/11

**Venryx** · 01-08-2017 04:22 PM

Attempt 12: success (and this time a "real" lucid, with me accomplishing two of my dream goals)

Spoiler for Dream entry:

I would have liked if their dream selves had elaborated more on their meaning, but at least I remembered the right question and their answers this time. Maybe later I'll revisit and ask for a full explanation of those answers. But for now: "Turning to ice" and "Contempt".

Success rate: 9/12

**Venryx** · 01-09-2017 12:32 PM

Attempt 13: success

Another weak lucid, but it was there. Realized I was dreaming when I light switch kept failing to work. Also had an interesting talk with my electronic devices, before that, where we discussed a possible future apocalypse from how advanced our devices were becoming.

(This dream was earlier this night, but I accidentally fell asleep while preparing to record it! So I lost the chance to try another attempt during the last three hours.)

Success rate: 10/13

**Venryx** · 01-09-2017 06:03 PM

Attempt 14: weak lucid

Another weak lucid. Realized I was dreaming when I entered a shop, and then proceeded to collect and eat all the best foods; told myself "I should do this more often in lucids!". Failed to remember waking-life dream goals.

This is becoming enough of a pattern that I think I'll start separating the lucids into "weak" and "full" categories.

Full lucids are dreams in which I realize I'm dreaming, and:
1) It lasts for more than a few seconds
2) And I do one of the following: A) Substantially access daytime memories. B) Remember my daytime dream goals.

Weak lucids are dreams in which I realize I'm dreaming, but not both of the conditions above are met.

Success rate: 11/14 (9 weak, 2 full)

**naturespirit** · 01-09-2017 10:27 PM

:wow:
Maybe I should try this technique!
I also wonder whether your body is making up the noises (expectation) or reality!

**Venryx** · 01-10-2017 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by naturespirit

I also wonder whether your body is making up the noises (expectation) or reality!

Yeah, I wonder that too. So far I have yet to definitively identify a number that failed the pattern test (which was the intended false-awakening evaluation method), but have had times where the source of the sound was questionable. I think most of them, at least, are real, though; if they're fake, I would expect to see at least a few clear revelations of such over dozens of attempts. (so far I've done ~1 dozen attempts, but will continue as-is until at least the 30 lucid mark)

As for potentially joining in the tests, that'd be awesome! Like I said, it's not currently released, but won't take too much work to do so. (basically just need to package the existing functionality more nicely, get the UI working on smaller screens, then submit it to the Play app-store)

Also, what's nice is that it doesn't need any special hardware, so it doesn't really have a price barrier (other than an Android device, which most people have). It is easier to do with a bluetooth speaker under your pillow, for consistency's sake and keeping it quieter for anyone in the next room, but it should also work fine just on a standalone Android phone/tablet.

Anyway, the results so far have been different than what I expected. I'm only getting about half of the full-lucids that I expected, but the success rate for lucid dreams in general is pretty surprising: 79% at the moment! Even though those lucids are not currently very usable, I believe I can learn to convert them into full lucids, at which point it's actually not that far from the goal of lucid dreams every night. I've decided to temper my excitement until the 30 lucid mark, however, as it is fairly common for lucid dream techniques to drop off in effectiveness after the first couple weeks. But this is certainly the most promising path I've so far tried for a long-term, substantial boost to nightly lucidity.

**Him** · 01-10-2017 04:17 AM

This sounds very interesting. What is the program written in? Is it available to us? If it is, we could add more data

**Venryx** · 01-10-2017 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Him

This sounds very interesting. What is the program written in? Is it available to us? If it is, we could add more data

The program is mostly written in JavaScript, for easier user-scripting and to take advantage of the wonderful react-native UI framework; but it also uses some Java for interfacing with Android. (and for a couple high-performance sections of code--though most of this is no longer needed)

It's actually the same app referenced in this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-aids...etty-good.html (the screenshots there are fairly outdated, however)

The above was an attempt at using the Muse EEG headband at night to detect rem-sleep, and then triggering various user-scripted effects. It was actually going fine, but I suspended work on that functionality, as I decided the main deficit atm is not rem-detection but rather what happens in way of signaling the user after that point. (the other reason is that wearing a headband during the night is more uncomfortable than I thought; it's doable, but it was one of the factors in my shifting focus)

The program is open source (MIT), so it can be forked, compiled, and even monetized by people if they want (though it's preferred of course to combine efforts toward the main app). The code/repository for it can be found here: https://github.com/Venryx/LucidLink (The app is not yet on the Play store, as I'm still experimenting with the ideal configuration for it--I can accelerate the upload process if needed, however)

And yeah, extension to add more data and functionality is greatly encouraged! There are many features and experiments I'd like to add to the project over the years; in particular, I'd like to get it linked up to a database at some point and allow people to crowdsource statistical studies on the effectiveness of the various techniques, and add a way for people to easily journal their dreams, analyze them, and share them if desired.

But that's a good ways in the future. For now I'm just using it to study the effectiveness of some variations on techniques, and slowly optimize them for my own use. Later on, if they prove effective for the long-term, I'll attempt to package up what I've learned into an "official technique", and provide it within the app along with instructions. (and later on, with graphs on the success rate for users over time, to encourage people to persist even if they don't get results the first couple of days)

**Venryx** · 01-10-2017 06:48 PM

Attempt 15: failure

Had some vivid dreams, but couldn't remember a specific moment were I definitely knew I was dreaming.

Success rate: 11/15 (9 weak, 2 full)

**Venryx** · 01-11-2017 12:58 AM

Attempt 16: weak lucid

This time I realized I was dreaming, and so used my tablet to record dozens of people saying random things into it (including my family and someone like Bill Cosby). I was very excited anticipating when I'd wake up with the recordings as the first of their kind. A cool idea, except for the fact that it DOESN'T WORK.

Success rate: 12/16 (10 weak, 2 full)

P.S. Anyone have tips on specifically targeting weak lucids like this? I'm getting them like crazy, but so far have been unable to get that "I'm dreaming" knowledge to reliably transform into a fuller remembrance of my dream goals and everything.

**Him** · 01-11-2017 05:02 AM

Success rate 1/1

I didn't even use the program and fell asleep. In the dream, there was a DC that said a 4 digit number and I stopped and remembered this thread. I then tried to find if they were all even or odd but then remembered that I never downloaded the thing so it must be a dream.

**Venryx** · 01-11-2017 04:29 PM

Attempt 17: weak lucid

Another lucid where I interacted with my dream app, perceiving it as a link between the dream and real world. This is good, as it means memory links are being formed with my lucid-dreaming app (allowing for adding my own "increase clarity" and dc-summoning buttons, dream goal reference menus, etc.), but I still failed to remember my dream goals after this occurred. (perhaps because I was too focused on trying to store and upload the "special, recorded dream data" I had captured...)

That said, these weak lucids are getting more interesting now, and increase my optimism that I'll eventually be able to convert them into full lucids.

Spoiler for Dream entry:

Success rate: 13/17 (11 weak, 2 full)