Thread: Immortality or not?

I don't think it will be possible for anyone to get bored. If you did nothing at all but watch tv, you could watch tv forever and never see the same thing twice, since new tv shows are made faster than a person can watch them. So you could watch tv until tv becomes obsolete and no one ever makes a new tv show, and you would still be watching old shows for thousands(possibly millions) of years after they are stop being made. That is just one thing, watching tv. Then you throw in video games, board games, movies, and books and you got an endless amount of things to do, since new ones are always being made. That is just without repeating anything. There are some things, especially games, that you are going to watch/play/read more than once.

Boredom is a momentary state, you get bored because there isn't anything immediately interesting in front of you. People get bored even today, but it is because they don't feel like searching for things to do, not because there is a lack of stuff to do. You might feel lazy and relax and lounge around if your immortal, and you might get bored at times, but there is pretty much an infinite amount of things to do in the world.

Originally Posted by Alric

I don't think it will be possible for anyone to get bored. If you did nothing at all but watch tv, you could watch tv forever and never see the same thing twice, since new tv shows are made faster than a person can watch them. So you could watch tv until tv becomes obsolete and no one ever makes a new tv show, and you would still be watching old shows for thousands(possibly millions) of years after they are stop being made. That is just one thing, watching tv. Then you throw in video games, board games, movies, and books and you got an endless amount of things to do, since new ones are always being made. That is just without repeating anything. There are some things, especially games, that you are going to watch/play/read more than once.

Boredom is a momentary state, you get bored because there isn't anything immediately interesting in front of you. People get bored even today, but it is because they don't feel like searching for things to do, not because there is a lack of stuff to do. You might feel lazy and relax and lounge around if your immortal, and you might get bored at times, but there is pretty much an infinite amount of things to do in the world.

That, I like

Originally Posted by Alric

I don't think it will be possible for anyone to get bored. If you did nothing at all but watch tv, you could watch tv forever and never see the same thing twice, since new tv shows are made faster than a person can watch them. So you could watch tv until tv becomes obsolete and no one ever makes a new tv show, and you would still be watching old shows for thousands(possibly millions) of years after they are stop being made. That is just one thing, watching tv. Then you throw in video games, board games, movies, and books and you got an endless amount of things to do, since new ones are always being made. That is just without repeating anything. There are some things, especially games, that you are going to watch/play/read more than once.

Boredom is a momentary state, you get bored because there isn't anything immediately interesting in front of you. People get bored even today, but it is because they don't feel like searching for things to do, not because there is a lack of stuff to do. You might feel lazy and relax and lounge around if your immortal, and you might get bored at times, but there is pretty much an infinite amount of things to do in the world.

To boot, unless we make huge advancements in human memory as well, you'd eventually forget what happened in the shows or want to watch them again. And you'll have every episode of every season of every show in history. That is, to say the least, a lot.

^^ I assume, or at least hope, that you guys are using watching TV as some sort of metaphor, but I for one like to think that if I were to stumble upon immortality I would have the time to develop myself to occupy my eternity with something more than TV shows!

That said, you make a good point, TimeDragon, in that an immortal being would likely develop a memory system which discards old memories to make room for new ones -- especially if immortality doesn't include an upgrade in brain capacity.

Since our identities are based so heavily on our memories, an immortal being would, in a sense, become a new person each time a complete set of old memories are replaced with new ones... making only the body, and not the individual, immortal. I suppose the immortal could lessen the impact of these memory exchanges by holding on to some old memories, but even these would eventual become little more than dusty curios of events otherwise forgotten.

So maybe physical immortality is limited to just the length of time that your brain can retain its original complement of memories. I'm guessing that would still be many centuries, though, so I'd still be game... oh, and I have a feeling I'd never be bored; the number of things to do in this universe is likely infinite.

I voted yes, but the concept of immortality is a bit vague to me. Does it mean that one remains conscious for as long as one wants, or does it mean that it is literally impossible to die, and that you're forced into an infinite existence?

If it's the former, I don't see how anyone could turn that opportunity down, our natural lives are short, while the amount of potential worthwhile experiences is enormous (hopefully not including too much TV ^^).

However, if immortality entails the later, all or nothing situation, I would approach the offer with much more trepidation. It's impossible to know what the consequences of being conscious 'forever' could be. But I don't think it's implausible that insanity is the inevitable outcome.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ I assume, or at least hope, that you guys are using watching TV as some sort of metaphor, but I for one like to think that if I were to stumble upon immortality I would have the time to develop myself to occupy my eternity with something more than TV shows!

That said, you make a good point, TimeDragon, in that an immortal being would likely develop a memory system which discards old memories to make room for new ones -- especially if immortality doesn't include an upgrade in brain capacity.

Since our identities are based so heavily on our memories, an immortal being would, in a sense, become a new person each time a complete set of old memories are replaced with new ones... making only the body, and not the individual, immortal. I suppose the immortal could lessen the impact of these memory exchanges by holding on to some old memories, but even these would eventual become little more than dusty curios of events otherwise forgotten.

So maybe physical immortality is limited to just the length of time that your brain can retain its original complement of memories. I'm guessing that would still be many centuries, though, so I'd still be game... oh, and I have a feeling I'd never be bored; the number of things to do in this universe is likely infinite.

I like the development part very much. Imagine a human developed to a very high level. Developing infinity! It would be much better with infinite memory.

I voted yes, but the concept of immortality is a bit vague to me. Does it mean that one remains conscious for as long as one wants, or does it mean that it is literally impossible to die, and that you're forced into an infinite existence?

If it's the former, I don't see how anyone could turn that opportunity down, our natural lives are short, while the amount of potential worthwhile experiences is enormous (hopefully not including too much TV ^^).

However, if immortality entails the later, all or nothing situation, I would approach the offer with much more trepidation. It's impossible to know what the consequences of being conscious 'forever' could be. But I don't think it's implausible that insanity is the inevitable outcome.

We can fix insanity! It's great never dying!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ I assume, or at least hope, that you guys are using watching TV as some sort of metaphor, but I for one like to think that if I were to stumble upon immortality I would have the time to develop myself to occupy my eternity with something more than TV shows!

I think we meant that boredom would be impossible even if our activies were limited to watching TV.

Originally Posted by Sageous

And yeah, I wonder how many people, if offered immortality, would turn it down.

Atleast one, but we've had this discussion enough times already and you and I still can't see eye to eye.

Yeah; I hear you. 'Nuff said!

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Come on, you know I'm right. No body wants to die and face eternal unconsciousness!

I can't find any aversion to death in me, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Sageous

And yeah, I wonder how many people, if offered immortality, would turn it down.

I would definitely turn it down. I don't even understand why people are attracted to the idea. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be, just that I don't understand it. And no I don't believe in conscious immortality after death, or desire that either, it amounts to the same thing.

"Me" has a context. How does it make sense to try to extend that beyond its natural context? I'd be bored after a hundred years and probably psychotic after a few hundred. Other people will live, why do I need to? And there is also a context for people in general living, and it would be unnatural and painful to extend that indefinitely. There are people elsewhere.

The desire to prolong human life indefinitely seems gruesome to me, unnatural, sick. A near-term scientific or medical solution that even extends life for a few hundred years would be a catastrophe for humanity. As we age we get too rigid, stuck in another time, and its not purely a matter of our bodies breaking down, to some extent its inherent in the way our minds developed as we lived and grew. Older people should be concerned with raising the young, not with prolonging their own bodies, zombie-like. Even in a universe where there were no killing and where bodies didn't fail, there would still be a kind of subtle personal death, as a part of the transformation that is essential to freedom from the past. But we're not right for that spiritually, so for us our kind of death is absolutely essential.

I can't agree. If we can prologue life to infinite years, then we can surely heal our bodies and renew them, and surely "refresh" our mental health and psychology. Refresh is just the first term that came to my mind, but you get the point. Also, refresh it without deleting any info or memories or anything(maybe bad experiences, yaaaaay!)

To live forever, the blessing of a lifetime...the many great friends and relationships you will make...the never ending life progressively getting worse and worse...the death and tragedy you will endure...then...loneliness when everyone you ever loved has passed away.

I would take immortality but be allowed to die when I want...I couldn't bare to see my perfect girl die while I carry on living, I don't want to live if my heart is no longer living.

...Wow, that went deep.

why let them die!? Immortality for all!
Pluss, even if they die, you will recover, but you will never recover death

Originally Posted by LouaiB

why let them die!? Immortality for all!
Pluss, even if they die, you will recover, but you will never recover death

You raise a marvelous point about everyone living forever

You Can recover but I just don't think Id have it in me, I grow very attached to the people I love dearly.

Originally Posted by jackc45

You raise a marvelous point about everyone living forever

You Can recover but I just don't think Id have it in me, I grow very attached to the people I love dearly.

That is normal, I think. I, for one, feel very capable of letting go of people from my life, people that I love(except a very few special individuals, very special to my heart). But, maybe that is because I always had been moving from one school and home to another(like 7 times!), so I got used of letting go of people and friends. I don't have trust issues or issolation issues, on the contrary, I can't spend a day without meeting someone and talking to them about a lot of stuff. Meh, it's about what your used too. I think that it becomes easier with practice

I think you identify too deeply with an arbitrary set up qualities contained within a membrane known as skin, life is more than this.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I think you identify too deeply with an arbitrary set up qualities contained within a membrane known as skin, life is more than this.

IMO, life, conscious, self are products of biological factors, neurons, health. Not soul, or higher self or similar things. I think that is what you meant

I never mentioned soul. There is a concept of what you are, which is not truly what you are. You are attached to prolonging the false identity because you have no awareness of anything more than that. I understand this, but one does not need to presume a soul to be aware that they are more than what's within their skin.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I never mentioned soul. There is a concept of what you are, which is not truly what you are. You are attached to prolonging the false identity because you have no awareness of anything more than that. I understand this, but one does not need to presume a soul to be aware that they are more than what's within their skin.

of course. So, why is immortality bad then? You stay conscious, alive, feeling,... And ,IMO, all these conscious, happiness, feelings are hormones and brain activity, so if immortality is to be achieved, surely they can sustain their well-being, or mental health so to speak. I really don't see where the problem is.

Because it stops the process of evolution, both mentally and biologically.

It also removes the most prolific reason to appreciate life for what it is, which is that it's a temporary phenomenon.

who cares if your never gonna die! I live for pleasure, and I can't have pleasure if I die.

Pleasure is only made noticeable through its counterpart. One seeking pleasure will only shift up and down for all eternity, much like sisyphus rolling his boulder. I live for happiness, and happiness comes from being grateful for what you have and appreciating life for what it is. The fact that I exist in a temporary phenomenon highlights the preciousness of every single thing I am aware of. Everything is regarded as precious and beautiful for it all changes and goes away in the end. This makes for a very beautiful life.

Without death, one is also never forced to come to grips with the fact that they must eventually let go of their material possessions, so they have no reason now to see through the value they place on them. Awareness of death is my single greatest source of happiness. It is the catalyst for all the work I've done toward letting go and dwelling in peace. And believe me, peace beats the shit out of the up and downs and pleasure and pain. Those still exist, but you get to reside about six inches away from them.

May I introduce the idea that we need to die...

Death may not be the end, death as we know it could very well be the beginning.

I think we can fix that. Again, a refreshing machine. Maybe not the right thing, refreshing. Well, whatever happens, I know it is better than the deletion by death( I believe in no life after death)