Wow nice posts guys! Thanks for discussing.
Originally Posted by ~ Dreamer ~
Originally Posted by Neo Neo
I love both Eckhart and McKenna. They are very inspiring and wise. And since both are humans, I think they can also be a little short sighted in some areas. Regarding the dichotomy between psychedelics and meditation, I think they are a little short sighted because of their life's dedication to their individual choice of means for consciousness expansion. When you have dedicated everything to one practice, something that is seen as opposing becomes so threatening that you automatically fight against it before even fully understanding what it is.
Originally Posted by Original Poster
I know Terrance McKenna to almost mock meditation and mindfulness, being unable to understand why one would devote decades to meditative practice to achieve the same thing that can be achieved with 20 minutes of DMT or 6 hours of Mushrooms. Eckhart on the other hand partakes in 1 LSD trip, and suddenly understands everything there is to know about LSD, saying all it does is enhance sensory perception, but does not lead to any real expansion in consciousness.
What they are both missing is that they are different tools used for different purposes. I'm not gonna pretend to know for sure what those purposes are, but to me it seems that metaphorically speaking, psychedelics provides the spark, and meditation provides the flame. LSD and shrooms and dmt can be seen as kindling to start the fire. Just like it is hard to make a log catch on fire with a small flame, it is hard to make most people suddenly change their lifestyle and adopt a more mindful and spiritual way of living out of the blue. There needs to be something that sparks that interest and desire to go this way, and that understanding that shows them what a lifestyle focused on consciousness can provide. Psychedelics give you an intense experience with the expansion of consciousness, in order to be life changing and powerful enough to alter your perception and thoughts and inspire you to change. Meditation on the other hand is the firewood. It is what sustains the expansion of consciousness and allows it to permeate into your life. Eckhart mentioned how violent LSD seems, compared to the gentle expansion of consciousness provided by a meditative and mindful lifestyle. He's right, but this is for a reason. Meditation is supposed to cause permanent changes in your lifestyle, and thus is not going to be as intense or immediately profound as the psychedelic experience, but this is okay because in order for these changes in consciousness successfully permeate into your life, they need to be brought on gently and slowly over time.
I am often wary to put too much trust in any one spiritual teacher. I think a lot of them can offer huge amounts of insight and inspiration, but relying on any one of them for all my philosophical endeavors I find dangerous, because they too are only human, thus can make mistakes, be wrong about some things, and often, allow their ego to delude them into thinking that they know everything because they are the spiritual master.
Pure LSD is definitely amazing. For the longest time I have been using not the best quality acid, and still have pretty awesome experiences out of them. Just recently I got my hands on extremely potent, pure acid. Took 1.5 tabs, which would usually give me a light experience, I tripped for 24 hours, having an experience that is equivalent to about a ten strip of normal potency acid.
Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71
Trip started with unbelievable euphoria, much more intense than you would get on MDMA. I started coming up really slowly, then by the 2nd hour, the trip suddenly shot up. By the peak, my visuals were unbelievable. I could see every single molecule in every cell in every detail forming and morphing into infinitely complex geometrical patterns at extremely high speeds. When I turned off the lights, all I could see was millions of tiny orbs of light flying and dancing around the room, forming them into the same infinitely complex geometrical patterns. When I turned my phone on the light from the phone would be sucked out of the phone and into these patterns. When I went outside, It looked like an alien landscape. Everything was so unbelievably saturated with intense, vibrant color. It was so colorful though that you wouldn't recognize it. Normally saturated red would be considered gray compared to how red the reds were while I was frying (if that makes sense).
And while I already knew this to be true, it made even more sense now. That what you see on acid is not something that is not there, instead it is actually seeing something that is already there that you have not been able to see before. This trip made me realize the infinite complexity of reality. I started to understand that the normal state of consciousness is like a very small window into reality, while the psychedelic experience is the expanding of this window, making it larger and larger and larger, allowing you to see more and more and more of consciousness, until eventually this window opens and you can actually step out into pure consciousness, the type of experiences you would get on DMT or Salvia or very high doses of shrooms. This explanation being a metaphor of course.
The interesting thing is, while this trip on LSD was very profound for me, it was not very spiritual. I was able to see reality ripped open, but I still maintained my own ego and did not get that "God view" feeling and spiritual "lessons" that I often get on plant psychedelics. Making me think, maybe since plant psychedelics come from consciousness itself (nature) they have more of an innate spiritual experience to them. While LSD being semi synthetic, is almost more of like a reality hack. You don't get it packaged neatly into a box with a bow tie, instead you just get it how it is. Would be interested to see other people's opinions and the dichotomy between plant vs synthetic psychedelics.
Originally Posted by Original Poster
That would be quite the interesting experience. If one is already in an altered state of consciousness, to suddenly be thrust into the DMT Experience without their anticipation would probably be profound.
I am actually going to be doing my first float session tomorrow! Going to keep my first few experiences drug free. I want to explore what a pure sensory deprivation experience has to offer, and then experiment with psychedelic tools to expand the experience.
Originally Posted by ~ Dreamer ~
As far as my own experiences with altered states, they have mostly been with psychedelics. I have been recently training in meditation. Woudln't say I have achieved altered states of consciousness from it yet, but am definitely reaping some benefits, namely incredible relaxation and mental clarity.
I have also recently been experimenting with binuaral beats used as a supplement to meditation. Have had actually unexpected results. During one experience, I lost concept of my body and time. I felt perfectly at peace with everything, floating in absolute nothingness. Felt like it lasted an eternity, was only 15 minutes. Very interesting experience. Every other time I tried it, I didn't get quite those results, but the binuaral beats did definitely help with slowing down my brain.
Most of my altered states have come from psychedelic use. I have mostly only used psychedelics in low to medium doses, which is still incredibly beneficial. Two features of LSD that are in all of my experiences are the softening of the ego and the "bigger picture" perspective. The ego softening I experience on LSD is similar to that of MDMA, where everyone I talk to , I feel love for, and if there is a problem that arises, I feel the need to be compassionate and understanding about it rather than immediately defending or confronting. The "bigger picture" perspective is really interesting. It is this all knowing feeling where it feels as if you have been lifted out of the fog that you've been shrouded in all your life, and can clearly analyze and delve into your problems, seeing them from an objective point of view. On LSD, this takes form in an introspective way, where I am able to see everything clearly that is related to my personal issues, relationships, life choices, experiences, etc. On mushrooms, I get the same objective perspective shift, except it is from more of a spiritual form. In this, I lose all concept of time and space, I feel as if I have been lifted from the fog again, but instead of having clear knowledge and insight about my life, I have clear knowledge and insight about the nature of reality and consciousness. I sometimes feel as if I am God, seeing everything from an objective point of view. And also while this happening, I fear to go back to a normal state of consciousness, because I know if I do, I will once again be shrouded in the fog and oblivious to the truth that I have just re-realized. While the LSD perspective is easy to handle, sometimes the mushrooms perspective can be very frightening. Which brings me to the next type of altered state I have experienced, which is a little bothersome.
The first time I have experienced this was on Salvia. This was the 4th time I tripped on Salvia. The first three times were your typical laugh your ass off youtube video trip. This time was very different.
Here is my trip report:
"So I took 2 hits of salvia. My consciousness slowly started to fade, until eventually I blacked out I left this reality and appeared in some weird, colorful, 2-d reality where I am stuck to some kind surface and unable to move, completely trapped. I see in front of me someone else stuck, with an elephant head. My mindset is what scared me the most. For some reason, a realization washed over me that my reality that I've always lived in was not real, almost like a momentary illusion, and that my true reality was being stuck in this 2-d realm, and that I would never be able to get back, because it's not real. It's hard to explain exactly how I felt, but I didn't know I was on Salvia, it felt like I was waking up from a dream, our reality being the dream, and this crazy trapped reality being some type of world that I existed in. I didn't really remember much of my real life, it felt like I had been in this crazy reality forever, and the part that scared me the most, is that it felt familiar. I had no question in my mind that this was the way it was, but I was still terrified because even though I knew that was the way it was, it scared me that I would be stuck forever. Then suddenly, everything disappeared. I was in complete nothingness. I couldn't see or hear anything, i had no body, and I felt as if I was existing outside of time and space. I still had the mindset that I was trapped and would never be able to return. That I had my go at life but Now I was back to being trapped in nothingness, forever.
Eventually I came back to reality, and for about 30 minutes, I could see and feel that other reality right next to me, like all I had to do was roll back over to get into it. So I avoided laying down. I told myself I wouldn't do Salvia again, but as a week went by, I kinda got over that fear and decided to try again.
My friend convinced me that it was only a bad trip and wouldn't happen again. I did it again, and this time, the same exact thing happened. At the beginning of the trip though, instead of blacking out, it started with me feeling as if I was being compressed into 2d space, but at the same time I became aware of extra dimensions (I thought of it as the 5th dimension, although I really had no reason to be this specific). Then, I got this intense rush of dreadful nostalgia that scared me to death. And immediately all my memories of the last time this happened came rushing back and I said to myself "oh no, what have I done, not again." Then I started to get this objective view of reality, where it seemed like I was looking down on reality as if it was a board game, and at the base of this board, I could feel this all knowing female presence. Then I went back to that terrible 2d reality. Even though a week went by since the last time I tripped, it felt like only seconds had gone by. I felt like i had been tricked by some powerful force in going back to this place, and felt like no matter what I did, I would always come back here in the end."
After that, I tried Salvia 5 more times, always having the same exact trip.
On the peaks of two of my most intense mushroom trips, one of my most intense LSD trips, and one of my DMT trips, I would experience this reality again. It was never as intense as Salvia, but I would always experience the same nostalgic dread, as well as the feeling that I was returning to the reality that I have always been from, that this reality was an illusion, and the feeling of that same female presence and feeling that reality was really all existing in the same place outside of time, almost like a board game that you can't see until you rise above into the "5th" dimension, yet somehow it also felt 2 dimensional, like there was no space. And every time, I would have the same thoughts of "oh no, not again." Along with the extreme urge to fight it as hard as possible, to avoid going back.
Has anyone else experienced something similar to this or have any insights on this? What I wonder is if this is actually showing me some truth of reality, or if it is more of a subconscious thing.