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    1. #151
      Member OpheliaBlue's Avatar
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      Jun 2004
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      #DVA classes suspended until irc is fixed, per http://www.dreamviews.com/meta-forum...on-help-6.html

    2. #152
      Member OpheliaBlue's Avatar
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      Next Class: Wednesday, July 15th at 2pm CST
      Mismagius, gab, NyxCC and 2 others like this.

    3. #153
      Member OpheliaBlue's Avatar
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      From today's class/discussion. It went great! Thanks to everyone who came. Keep an eye on this thread for future times.

      Today's topics were:

      time dilation
      dream control
      scene changes

      Spoiler for #DVA July 15, 2015:
      [14:00] <@OpheliaBlue|Asleep> I gotta remember how to unmute this thing
      [14:00] == OpheliaBlue|Asleep has changed nick to OpheliaBlue
      [14:00] == gaea [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:01] == mode/#DVA [-m] by OpheliaBlue
      [14:01] <gaea> first
      [14:01] <Shabby> Yay woo
      [14:01] <gaea> YES
      [14:01] <Coasty> third
      [14:01] <trancewalker>
      [14:01] <@OpheliaBlue> hey y'all!
      [14:01] <zachlew> Hi
      [14:01] <gaea> omg AND I JUST JOINED
      [14:01] <Coasty> hype
      [14:01] <@OpheliaBlue> I feel like I just ripped duct tape off a dozen mouths
      [14:01] <gaea> lol
      [14:01] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:01] == mode/#DVA [+o spellbee2] by anderj101
      [14:02] <@OpheliaBlue> hey bee
      [14:02] * Sensei hands OpheliaBlue an apple
      [14:02] <gaea> yus
      [14:02] <@spellbee2> Sorry I'm late, dog was eating my homework.
      [14:02] * gaea gives everyone apples
      [14:02] <gaea> <::
      [14:03] <@spellbee2> Also, phone battery's almost dead, so I'll probably drop out soon...
      [14:03] <gaea> aw
      [14:03] <@OpheliaBlue> So I was going to let you guys choose a topic, since there's several levels of lucid skill in here
      [14:03] <gaea> advanced
      [14:03] <Coasty> a topic huh
      [14:04] <gaea> "time dilation" <;
      [14:04] <Coasty> well I have been wondering something for a while
      [14:04] <gaea> kidding
      [14:04] <Coasty> oh, that
      [14:04] <trancewalker> point of this ,,meeting,, is that we gonna talk and discuss one topic, right?
      [14:04] <@OpheliaBlue> Yeah, the most pressing questions about lucidity
      [14:04] <Shabby> WILDs and how to schedule and time them
      [14:04] <Coasty> that's a good odea
      [14:04] <Coasty> time dilation is something I want to know about
      [14:04] <@OpheliaBlue> trancewalker: it's an hour so we can cover a few topics
      [14:04] <Coasty> can I dream for days
      [14:04] <Coasty> ?
      [14:04] <gaea> millenia*
      [14:04] <gaea> <;
      [14:04] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah time dilation is possible
      [14:04] <Coasty> to what extent
      [14:04] <Coasty> does it make the dream weird?
      [14:04] <Coasty> how does one use it
      [14:04] <@OpheliaBlue> you have to think of it the same way you recall your day yesterday
      [14:05] <@OpheliaBlue> it doesn;t take you 12 full hours to recall 12 hours of your day, it skipps around
      [14:05] <Coasty> right but uh
      [14:05] <gaea> It's like a bunch of events that seemed that long I think
      [14:05] <Coasty> how do you trigger time dilation
      [14:05] <zachlew> I thought time dilation wasnt real more of just seems like it than actually extending time?
      [14:05] <Coasty> how do you make your lucid dream super long
      [14:05] <@OpheliaBlue> you know that's a good question, I've never triggered it intentionally
      [14:06] <@OpheliaBlue> I just got lucky a few times
      [14:06] <Coasty> and wouldn't uh, the difference between real time/ dream time make the dream different?
      [14:06] <gaea> For me it's natural <;
      [14:06] <@OpheliaBlue> I suppose you could have the expectation to jump from day to day
      [14:06] <@gab> here
      [14:06] <@OpheliaBlue> hey gab
      [14:06] <gaea> welcome gab
      [14:06] <Shabby> Hi gab
      [14:06] <@gab> hey everybody
      [14:06] <Coasty> I mean, unless it takes less than a minute for the dream to simulate a minute\
      [14:06] <trancewalker> super long LD... hmmm... deild chain works for me... but... well thats more Lds one after another...
      [14:06] <Coasty> in which case...I could see how that' be possible
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> we did a podcast on that actually
      [14:07] <@Mismagius> here
      [14:07] <Coasty> but otherwise, if it takes exactly one minute for the dream to simulate exactly one minute
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> CL talked about it, you should check it out
      [14:07] <Coasty> how would time dilation affect the dream
      [14:07] <gaea> In a lucid dream, you probably won't imagine yourself walking through a boring field, so it's kinda skipped by the dream
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> ^^
      [14:07] <@gab> hi mismagius
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> hey Prince!
      [14:07] <Coasty> hm
      [14:07] <Coasty> what if I do really interesting things
      [14:07] <Coasty> all the time
      [14:08] <@OpheliaBlue> lol
      [14:08] <gaea> umm
      [14:08] <Coasty> would that cause problems?
      [14:08] <@OpheliaBlue> The Most Interesting Man in the World
      [14:08] <gaea> probably the same time
      [14:08] <gaea> as normal time
      [14:08] <Coasty> alright.
      [14:08] <Coasty> I will document this
      [14:08] <Coasty> in fact, I will make this a dream goal
      [14:08] <gaea> but I think nobody has ever done that
      [14:08] == TiredJoe [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:08] <gaea> welcome
      [14:08] <trancewalker> hello
      [14:08] <@gab> welcome TiredJoe
      [14:08] <Coasty> gaea: great, it's time for some pioneering
      [14:08] <zachlew> would just high lucidity cause time dialation?
      [14:09] <gaea> xd
      [14:09] <@OpheliaBlue> My experiences with time dilation were more subtle.. like it felt like 30 minutes, but when I woke up, only 10 mintes had gone by
      [14:09] <@OpheliaBlue> hey TiredJoe
      [14:09] <Sensei> You can dilate time while doing interesting things too, it just needs to be done with dream control.
      [14:09] <TiredJoe> hey all
      [14:09] <gaea> maybe, if you know how to lie to your mind
      [14:09] <Sensei> No, if you have good dream control.
      [14:09] <Coasty> I think I'd ask for a countdown
      [14:09] <Coasty> for the dream's end
      [14:09] <Coasty> and then I'd ask for it to be extended
      [14:10] <gaea> that could work
      [14:10] <Coasty> needs experiments.
      [14:10] <Coasty> I'm done with my questions on this topic.
      [14:10] <gaea> okay
      [14:10] <gaea> next topic?
      [14:10] <Sensei> Needs LDs. It is generally more important to practice induction than hard dream control.
      [14:11] <@spellbee2> I once felt my dream starting to destabilize, so I asked for 5 more minutes and it destabilized.
      [14:11] <@spellbee2> Restabilized*
      [14:11] <@spellbee2> Dang phone
      [14:11] <@OpheliaBlue> haha cool, just asked?
      [14:11] <Coasty> if nobody wants to propose anything, I'd like to ask about something I've been thinking about
      [14:11] <gaea> xd it destabilized
      [14:11] <@OpheliaBlue> Sure go ahead
      [14:11] <@spellbee2> Yep
      [14:11] <Coasty> sure uh
      [14:11] <@spellbee2> Haven't done it since, but it was kinda funny.
      [14:11] <Coasty> dream control. How much can you have
      [14:11] <Coasty> what is the maximum
      [14:12] <gaea> infinity + 1?
      [14:12] <Sensei> ALL OF IT!
      [14:12] <Coasty> what is the zenith
      [14:12] <@OpheliaBlue> Not sure that's a measurable thing
      [14:12] <Sensei> There has been none found.
      [14:12] <gaea> ^
      [14:12] <Coasty> not measurable, of course, but um
      [14:12] <Sensei> It also depends on who you believe.
      [14:12] <Coasty> there are people who claim there is a limit
      [14:12] <@OpheliaBlue> you can do anything in a dream if you believe it and have expectation
      [14:12] <Coasty> that you are not truly omnipotent
      [14:12] <trancewalker> you can control one thing perfectly while other not at all at the same time its discutable...
      [14:12] <gaea> there's no limit in imagination
      [14:12] <@OpheliaBlue> and don't fill your mind with schemas
      [14:12] <Sensei> There are also them that say that the only limits are those put on by yourself.
      [14:12] <TiredJoe> I've destroyed the world accidentally. That seems to be as much as I can do without immediate destabilization
      [14:13] <@OpheliaBlue> haha oops
      [14:13] <Coasty> so, hm
      [14:13] <gaea> I have 100% dream control, so idk wut I can't do
      [14:13] <trancewalker> but generally I think it's limited by imagination and expectations as other said
      [14:13] <TiredJoe> yep. That's what happens when the moon gets too close to the earth (MM fans let me get a heyo)
      [14:13] <Coasty> the real limit is not destabilizing the dream?
      [14:14] <@gab> if that is what you think, coasty , then what is your limit
      [14:14] <Coasty> TiredJoe: the Majora's Mask moon crashing thing was so horribly unrealistic
      [14:14] <gaea> well if you have no dream, I don't think there will be any dream control coasty
      [14:14] <Coasty> gaea: right
      [14:15] <Sensei> Dream control doesn't wake you up. Dream control can wake you up.
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> that's true
      [14:15] <gaea> true sensei
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> but who wants what
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue>
      [14:15] <Coasty> on the topic of omnipotence: can you close your eyes and not wake up?
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> in case you can't escape something horrible
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> yes Coasty
      [14:15] <gaea> mylynes lol
      [14:15] <trancewalker> I think it depends mostly on how stable and deep is your dream
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> but yeah, stability
      [14:15] <Coasty> I see
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> for that reason I keep my eyes OPEN during lucid sex
      [14:16] <Coasty> interesting that in dreams you don't blink
      [14:16] <Coasty> or I don't, at leasr
      [14:16] <Coasty> least*
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> but you certainly can
      [14:16] <Coasty> right
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> would be an interesting experiment
      [14:16] <TiredJoe> prolly b/c blinking is automatic
      [14:16] <gaea> why would we do that if we're lucid
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> you could probably make scene changes that way
      [14:16] <trancewalker> I do blink sometimes and it really can easily crash LD
      [14:16] <Sensei> I have made myself keep my eyes closed for an entire lucid before.
      [14:16] <gaea> yeah you can change scenes
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> oh cool, just felt your way around Sensei ?
      [14:17] <Coasty> I prefer to change scenes with dream doors
      [14:17] <Sensei> I usually close my eyes for an in dream scene change.
      [14:17] <Coasty> but dream doors are extremely boring
      [14:17] <TiredJoe> doors are the best!
      [14:17] <Sensei> Yep!
      [14:17] <gaea> I barely change scenes ;~;
      [14:17] <Coasty> I mean, dream doors are just...doors
      [14:17] <@OpheliaBlue> I've phased through mirrors and walls to change scenes too
      [14:17] <gaea> like never xd
      [14:17] <@OpheliaBlue> but blinking would be quicker huh
      [14:17] <Coasty> I'd like to have enough control to do something more interesting
      [14:17] <TiredJoe> not if u dont know what's on the other side of said door
      [14:17] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
      [14:17] <gaea> no drama in blinking
      [14:17] <Coasty> like open portals instead
      [14:17] <trancewalker> hmmm... mirrors... XD
      [14:17] <Sensei> It usually takes about 10 seconds.
      [14:18] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:18] == mode/#DVA [+o spellbee2] by anderj101
      [14:18] <Oreo> oh yeah, there's a thing going on
      [14:18] <gaea> wb spellbee
      [14:18] <Sensei> I did have one dream that every time I blinked it switched instantly and I kept flying to 3 different dream scenes.
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> hey Oreo
      [14:18] <gaea> amazing sensei
      [14:18] <Oreo> i'm more of a portal kind of guy
      [14:19] <Sensei> portals are fun. I like teleporting a lot.
      [14:19] <Oreo> though my early attempts at portals were mostly failures
      [14:19] <Oreo> took a while to work out the kinks
      [14:19] <Shabby> I would teleport using magic
      [14:19] <gaea> I'm going to try teleporting again
      [14:19] <Shabby> But my lucids have never been long enough to change scenes
      [14:19] <Oreo> like that time the portal hurled me backwards into a mountain
      [14:19] <trancewalker> teleporting is almost impossible for me :@
      [14:19] <Oreo> that was a flaw
      [14:19] <orationem> yeah i think you told me a few funny stories about portal fails back in november
      [14:19] <gaea> how long was ech ld?
      [14:19] <Sensei> haha. nothing quite as embarrassing as failing in a dream
      [14:19] <orationem> or stuck in the middle of a tree/wall too, right?
      [14:19] <Oreo> it's like "welp, back to the drawing board"
      [14:20] <TiredJoe> tripping infinitely on an escalator is much more embarassing
      [14:20] <Sensei> haha.
      [14:20] <trancewalker>
      [14:20] <@OpheliaBlue> lol
      [14:20] <Sensei> You can always just fly away!
      [14:20] <orationem> ooh fun lol
      [14:20] <Coasty> hmm, alright, I have more questions but they are unrelated to this topic
      [14:20] <trancewalker> stucked in wall?
      [14:20] <@OpheliaBlue> I don't think I've ever seen an escalator on a LD
      [14:20] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah I got stuck briefly in a wall before when phasing
      [14:20] <gaea> this chat can be considered coasty's topics <:
      [14:20] <@OpheliaBlue> got out though
      [14:20] <Oreo> don't think i've ever been stuck in a wall
      [14:20] <@OpheliaBlue> go ahead Coasty
      [14:20] <zachlew> lol
      [14:21] <Coasty> is there a...limit, a stop, something that keeps someone with low LD frequency from having LDs every night? Like a biological thing or such? Or is it all *just expectation*?
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> I have a basic question for the group at some point
      [14:21] <Oreo> phasing seem to come naturally
      [14:21] <Coasty> can someone go from 1 ld a month to 7 lds a week in one night? Is that theoretically possible?
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> I imagine there could be a biological thing, like if you have a sleep disorder, or on medications, or have a mental problem
      [14:21] <Sensei> Coasty, the easiest way to LD is experience.
      [14:21] <trancewalker> sometimes my dream body just ,,vanishes,, and dream scene keeps on going
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> but if none of those, then I'd say it's all expectation and level of awareness
      [14:21] <trancewalker> also weird a bit
      [14:21] <Sensei> That is why it takes time.
      [14:22] <Sensei> I got to go
      [14:22] <Coasty> Sensei: so more LDs lead to more LDs?
      [14:22] == Sensei [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
      [14:22] <gaea> I always had 3rd person ;~;
      [14:22] <@OpheliaBlue> when you gotta go
      [14:22] <gaea> view
      [14:22] <TiredJoe> same here
      [14:22] <gaea> w8 to go or 3rd person
      [14:22] <@OpheliaBlue> you're in 3rd person in all your LDs? or what you mean
      [14:22] <TiredJoe> Third person
      [14:22] <trancewalker> is possible to be lucid during sleep 24/7?
      [14:23] <orationem> not sure i've ever had 3rd person
      [14:23] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
      [14:23] <zachlew> can you keep a LD stablized after the rem ends?
      [14:23] <gaea> I mostly am, although I actively try to make it 1st person
      [14:23] <TiredJoe> i usually dont even see myself, just other people doing stuff
      [14:23] <TiredJoe> in a NLD that is
      [14:23] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: so you're saying that if one is familiar with awareness and can achieve it with relative ease, at least for short stretches of time, and also fully expects to have LDs, there's nothing stopping them?
      [14:23] <gaea> like a movie?
      [14:23] <@OpheliaBlue> zachlew: that's a good question, I don't really know how to measure that, but Sageous made a post about how he believe it's possible, since you can dream during non REM
      [14:23] <TiredJoe> yeah
      [14:24] <gaea> I've had those too
      [14:24] <@OpheliaBlue> Coasty: yep
      [14:24] <gaea> I really want 1st person dreams
      [14:24] <Coasty> very interesting
      [14:24] <Oreo> i'd agree with sageous
      [14:24] <TiredJoe> makes RCing tough b/c my mind just excuses it as a movie
      [14:24] <Oreo> simply because n-rem dreams are possible
      [14:24] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah
      [14:24] <Oreo> it's just that n-rem dreams on average are shorter, less stable, and less vivid
      [14:25] <Coasty> and weird.
      [14:25] <Oreo> key phrase though is "on average"
      [14:25] <@OpheliaBlue> so you just gotta bulldoze through the less stable part until the next REM cycle, and stay asleep and lucid
      [14:25] <@gab> zachlew , I don't believe you can keep a dream stabilized after REM is over, but you can keep awareness till the next dream and be still lucid
      [14:25] <@OpheliaBlue> hypothetically (shrugs)
      [14:25] <Coasty> hey you know what'd be great for that
      [14:25] <Coasty> as the rem cycle ends you could make a sort of shield, like a bubble around you
      [14:26] <Coasty> and just sit there and wait
      [14:26] <Coasty> or have a safe room
      [14:26] <@OpheliaBlue> I wonder if that's what happens during many of our "brown outs"
      [14:26] <trancewalker> once... several years ago I was lucid around 3-4 hours nonstop... but it happened to me only once
      [14:26] <Coasty> has anyone here used supplements?
      [14:26] <@OpheliaBlue> a bunch of members, me too, will be going along in a lucid just fine, then have a brown out and either wake up, or just wait for another scene
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> that's awesome trancewalker wow!
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> I used 5-htp before, and it was ok
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> but after a while it quit working, so overall not really worth it
      [14:27] <TiredJoe> good time to DEILD i guess. Also congrats trancewalker. Brilliant
      [14:27] <@gab> thats' how I chain my DEILDs OpheliaBlue
      [14:27] <Coasty> because I just ordered a bottle
      [14:27] <zachlew> I wake up when the dream ends how do you stay with it?
      [14:27] <Coasty> of supplements
      [14:27] <Coasty> LD supplements I mran
      [14:27] <Coasty> mean*
      [14:28] <@OpheliaBlue> if you wake up zachlew , you can always DEILD like gab mentioned
      [14:28] <Oreo> trancewalker: are you sure it 3-4 hours?
      [14:28] <Coasty> zachlew: if you wake up when the dream ends, to DEILD
      [14:28] <Shabby> A brown out is when you poop in a dream (and therefore also in real life l
      [14:28] <trancewalker> but I was keeping ,,falling,, between sleep paralysis and LD all the time
      [14:28] <@gab> zachlew , make sure you really woke up
      [14:28] <Oreo> what makes you think it was that long?
      [14:28] <@OpheliaBlue> oh shut your mouth Shabby
      [14:28] <Shabby> :3
      [14:28] <@gab> you could still be asleep, zachlew
      [14:28] <zachlew> so DEILD is the way to go? I have been having the bad luck of waking up in awkward posistions and having to move
      [14:28] <trancewalker> yupp but it was for example 10 mins of LD, 5 mins of SP, few mins of being awake and I was stuck in this circle
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> that's ok, it's a myth that you can't move at all to DEILD
      [14:29] <trancewalker> so it wasn't ,,clear,, 3-4 hours
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> if changing positions helps you get right back to sleep, then do it
      [14:29] <Oreo> yep
      [14:29] <zachlew> ah I thanks I'll try that
      [14:29] <Oreo> i move when DEILDing quite often
      [14:29] <Shabby> Question: WBTB timing. How and when?
      [14:29] == BOS [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:29] <Oreo> though obviously you shouldn't just get out of bed
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> hey BOS
      [14:29] <orationem> hey BOS
      [14:29] <Oreo> that's too much movement
      [14:29] <Coasty> Shabby: I think it depends
      [14:29] <BOS> hey
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah for me I might just roll over and reposition my pillow
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> I'm a pillow hugger
      [14:30] <trancewalker> hahaha
      [14:30] <Oreo> well i suppose you may theoretically be able to DEILD even if you got out of bed and went back in
      [14:30] <trancewalker> once in SP
      [14:30] <Coasty> Shabby: I often find that the best time for me is in the morning, after six hours
      [14:30] <Oreo> the key thing is to maintain that dreamy state of mind
      [14:30] <TiredJoe> i wake up on the floor with surprising frequency
      [14:30] <Oreo> not moving helps a lot with that
      [14:30] <Oreo> but is not necessary to it
      [14:30] <BOS> same with me shaby
      [14:30] <Shabby> OpheliaBlue, thoughts?
      [14:30] <@OpheliaBlue> Shabby: I WBTB after 7 hours of sleep (others usually 4-6), then stay up for 30-60min
      [14:30] <trancewalker> I had hallucinations my pillow was trying to suffocate me
      [14:30] <Shabby> Alright
      [14:30] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: 30-60?
      [14:31] <Coasty> that long?
      [14:31] <@OpheliaBlue> for a WBTB yes
      [14:31] <Coasty> I'd be fully awake by then
      [14:31] <orationem> yeah, often i remember dreams, but then i have to get up and move around immediately and that makes me forget them
      [14:31] <Coasty> I usually do not get out of bed at all
      [14:31] <@OpheliaBlue> it's WAKE back to bed
      [14:31] <BOS> same here i drink a cup of water and wake up 6-7 hours later
      [14:31] <zachlew> I only do 10-15mins for WBTB
      [14:31] <BOS> alarms don't wake me up
      [14:31] <@OpheliaBlue> if less time works, then that's fine
      [14:31] <zachlew> is that too short?
      [14:31] <Shabby> I'll try that today. Going to MILD during it. However, how much do you really need to wake? I mean you have to be able to sleep again right
      [14:31] <@OpheliaBlue> it's about achieving that balance between awake and aware, but still sleepy enough to get back to sleep
      [14:31] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: but... I mean, how are you not fully woken up by all that time?
      [14:31] <TiredJoe> an hour. Mostly b/c i have trouble getting back to sleep
      [14:32] <Coasty> wbtb oftentimes gives me insomnia
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> probably has to do with energy level, Coasty, you might need a shorter WBTB time
      [14:32] <@gab> I do 1-3 hr long WBTB
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> experiment with it, diff for every1
      [14:32] <BOS> i tried 10 minutes last night and fell asleep quicker but didn't have a LD
      [14:32] <zachlew> I fall asleep almost instantly
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> man, I have to abbreviate in there
      [14:32] <Shabby> Alright, will do
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> here
      [14:32] <trancewalker> wbtb works for me very well
      [14:32] <Shabby> gab, what do you do during that
      [14:32] <Shabby> I would be so bored
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> I can't recall a single LD that didn't have a WBTB period for me
      [14:33] <BOS> 20 the other night took me about 40 minutes to fall asleep but had my first LD
      [14:33] <@gab> read DV, no loud sounds
      [14:33] <@OpheliaBlue> even if it was super long like gab's
      [14:33] <Shabby> So you even use computers huh
      [14:33] <TiredJoe> doesnt the light make it hard to sleep?
      [14:33] <Shabby> This goes against all that I've learned lol
      [14:33] <@OpheliaBlue> if I'm really sleep deprived, an afternoon nap becomes my really stretched out WBTB
      [14:33] <@gab> I tell myslef I'm going back to sleep, so my body knows not to wake up and be ready for the day
      [14:33] <@OpheliaBlue> if it wakes you up too much, then don't do it
      [14:33] <TiredJoe> alright
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> light doesn't bother me
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> too much noise does though
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> if the dogs know I'm WBTBing, then it's over for me
      [14:34] <orationem> using a program like f.lux (free) helps with the computerlight and not waking you up as much if you look at the screen
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> "she's awake! I heard her eyelids open!"
      [14:34] <@gab> occupy your mind with lucid dreaming things, like reading your or someones DJ
      [14:34] <orationem> lol
      [14:34] <Shabby> Haha
      [14:34] <zachlew> haha
      [14:34] <Shabby> Alright will do
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> oh that's a good idea orationem
      [14:35] <orationem> f.lux is awesome. also good for migraines and stuff
      [14:35] <TiredJoe> i use f.lux and computer on lowest brightness but it still makes it tough to sleep. Still i am totally focussed on LDing during that time, and it DID work
      [14:35] <Shabby> I use Twilight since there's no way I'm going to use my pc
      [14:35] <orationem> yeah i have the computer on lowest brightness too
      [14:35] <Shabby> My parents would kill me if they found out
      [14:36] <TiredJoe> My parents would just be confused
      [14:36] <Coasty> Twilight?
      [14:36] <Shabby> App
      [14:36] <Coasty> the..books?
      [14:36] <@OpheliaBlue> sparkly vampires*
      [14:36] <Coasty> oh
      [14:36] <TiredJoe> that'll help anyone sleep... with complementary nightmares
      [14:36] <orationem> i've got mine set to lowest brightness, and f.lux to 1200k/ember at night and 2700k in the day (lowest settings possible for night and day respectively)
      [14:36] <orationem> eww
      [14:37] <Shabby> Or gay sex dreams
      [14:37] <zachlew> so is the point of wbtb to got right into rem? Im confused how a sleep cycle keeps going if you are awake
      [14:37] <BOS> what about listening to a mp4 on lucid dreams with low volume?
      [14:37] <@gab> point of WBTB is to wake up your mind, zachlew
      [14:37] <@OpheliaBlue> oh perfect timing for me to get the graph
      [14:37] <@OpheliaBlue> one sec zachlew
      [14:37] <@gab> so it doesn't fall asleep too soon
      [14:37] <trancewalker> wbtb gets me into SP.... always ...
      [14:37] <zachlew> oh ok
      [14:37] <@gab> so it stays awake till you get to the dream
      [14:38] <@OpheliaBlue> Ok students, reading material! http://www.lucidity.com/NL63.RU.Naps.html
      [14:38] <Shabby> Someone said SP! Everyone duck
      [14:38] <@gab> point of sleeping before WILDing is to be closer to REM
      [14:38] <orationem> BOS: i think listening to it would work, as long as hearing it doesn't keep you from falling asleep
      [14:38] <zachlew> so if your mind wakes up quickly you dont need a long wbtb period?
      [14:38] <@OpheliaBlue> scroll down to the graph
      [14:38] <@gab> yes zachlew
      [14:38] <@gab> wake up just enough
      [14:38] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:38] == mode/#DVA [+o spellbee2] by anderj101
      [14:38] <zachlew> thanks gab
      [14:38] <@gab> sure thing zachlew
      [14:39] <@OpheliaBlue> if you're feeling "SP", it's just normal Rem Atonia
      [14:39] <TiredJoe> never thought i'd say this. What an awesome graph
      [14:39] <@gab> haha
      [14:39] <@OpheliaBlue> I thought they lined it up with REM cycles, but I'm thinking of a different graph
      [14:39] <trancewalker> since I learned to ,,transform,, SP into LD I don't mind it so mych anymore
      [14:39] <trancewalker> *mUch
      [14:40] <orationem> a graph of wbtb lined up with rem cycles would be cool
      [14:40] <TiredJoe> Question: why does WBTB work with WILD. Isnt the goal of WILD to have the body fall asleep as quickly as possible?
      [14:40] <@OpheliaBlue> but it breaks down WBTB periods with an experiment, and Stephen LaBerge was there w00t
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> TiredJoe: you have to be awake first to WILD anyway
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> it's a wake induced lucid dream
      [14:41] <@gab> TiredJoe , the point is to fall asleep at the exact moment when dream forms
      [14:41] <zachlew> nickelback 'look at this graph'
      [14:41] <@gab> if you not awake enough, you fill just simply fall asleep
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> if you try it right when you go to bed at night, you're pretty far away from a REM cycle
      [14:41] <@gab> if too awake, you won't fall asleep
      [14:41] <TiredJoe> Ah i see.
      [14:42] <@gab> it's about dream cycles and how long the nrem and rem are
      [14:42] <Shabby> OK this knowledge is good. It's gonna work, guys I'm gonna have a lucid dream tonight woo
      [14:42] <@gab> when you go to sleep, nrem is 80 min and rem is 10 min long, as you sleep, nrem gets shoerter and rem longer
      [14:42] <@OpheliaBlue> see ya Shabby
      [14:42] <trancewalker> there is a thread on forum about that XD
      [14:42] <@OpheliaBlue> thanks for coming
      [14:43] <@gab> so after 4-7 hrs of sleep, when falling asleep, you don't have to staw aware during a long nrem till you get to rem
      [14:43] <Shabby> Oh I'll keep checking in but won't say anything
      [14:43] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah, it's harder to hit a lucid on those shorter REM cycles
      [14:43] <BOS> Bye shaby
      [14:43] <Shabby> !away
      [14:43] == Shabby has changed nick to Shabby|Away
      [14:43] <@gab> nrem is also the falling asleep part called light sleep
      [14:43] <@OpheliaBlue> most of my lucids happen in early morning
      [14:43] <BOS> lol
      [14:43] <TiredJoe> Ok. I'll try the glass of water thing, since i dont tend to wake up during the night. Or remember it, if i do.
      [14:43] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: I will use this
      [14:43] <BOS> glad i could help
      [14:43] <Coasty> can I use this tonight? I should.
      [14:43] == Sensei [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:44] <@OpheliaBlue> yes sir
      [14:44] <orationem> so do you want to wake up for wbtb just before rem starts, or at the end of a cycle? then stay awake until the next one?
      [14:44] <Coasty> I've also found that most of my LDs happen in the morning
      [14:44] <@OpheliaBlue> wb Sensei
      [14:44] <@gab> it doesn't matter, orationem
      [14:44] <Sensei> WBTB needs to be done on a trial and error basis depending on the person
      [14:44] <@gab> because every time you falling asleep, yo start with light sleep and other nrem
      [14:44] <BOS> just drink a large cup of water before going to bed
      [14:44] <orationem> ah, mkay
      [14:44] <@OpheliaBlue> yes what Sensei said
      [14:44] <orationem> water wouldn't work for me
      [14:45] <Sensei> why not?
      [14:45] <orationem> i never wake up during the night having to pee
      [14:45] <orationem> and even if i did, getting up would wake my entire family up
      [14:45] <Sensei> Drink MOAR water.
      [14:45] <zachlew> I do my wbtb from just normal awakenings...are you'll timing yours? I just do it when it is later in that night
      [14:45] <orationem> (which they wouldn't be happy about)
      [14:45] <Oreo> i was all excited for #DVA and ended up spending 30 minutes of it talking about beekeeping on another server
      [14:45] <Oreo> derp
      [14:46] <@gab> I do morning WBTBs
      [14:46] <orationem> lol
      [14:46] <@gab> like a morning nap
      [14:46] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: so let me get this straight. I should wake up one hour before I usually wake up
      [14:46] <Coasty> and read about LDs for an hour
      [14:46] <Coasty> then go back to sleep
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> zachlew: my most consisten lucids were when I set my alarm for 7am, got my kid to school, walked the dog, went pee, got water then went back to sleep
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> but I've gotten lucid from just natural awakenings too
      [14:46] <Sensei> Coasty, trial and error.
      [14:46] == Shabby|Away [[email protected]] has quit [Client closed the connection]
      [14:46] <Coasty> so...in total I'd sleep more than I currently do
      [14:47] == Shabby [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> I just think more structured sleep and wake times, for me, yielded more consistent results
      [14:47] <orationem> yeah, consistent sleep scheudle
      [14:47] <orationem> schedule*
      [14:47] <orationem> i need to work on that lol
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> Coasty: what are your normal sleep hours now?
      [14:47] <Coasty> uh
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah me too
      [14:47] <zachlew> so are yall sleeping more than 8 hrs?
      [14:47] <TiredJoe> I think LaBerge said that WBTB was most effective if u got up to pee, have sex, or vomit. That sounds like a terrifying night
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> I do personally, but I don't think most folks need as much as me
      [14:47] <Coasty> from midnight to 10 am
      [14:47] <Sensei> I sleep 6-8.
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> vomit?
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> no
      [14:47] <@gab> haha TiredJoe
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> where did he say that lol
      [14:48] <orationem> i generally sleep 7.5-9 hours, sometimes 6
      [14:48] <orationem> on days when i have to get up at 4:30am, it's often less than that, though
      [14:48] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: I go to bed at midnight and sleep 9 maybe 10 hours
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> Coasty: so set your alarm for WBTB at 6am
      [14:48] <Coasty> well, on average it's midnight
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> stay up maybe just 15 min for you
      [14:48] <TiredJoe> i think i read it in exploring the world of lucid dreaming
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> then you can go back to sleep and have a few hours to try for lucids
      [14:48] <Coasty> OpheliaBlue: but...this study that you linked...
      [14:49] <Coasty> says otherwise
      [14:49] <@OpheliaBlue> is an example
      [14:49] <orationem> everybody is different
      [14:49] <orationem> that study won't be accurate for everyone
      [14:49] <Coasty> I'll try what the study suggests and then I'll try what you suggested.
      [14:49] <@OpheliaBlue> haha ok
      [14:49] <Coasty> can;t hurt
      [14:49] <Sensei> Experiment with when a good time for you to wake up is, and how long. What Ophelia is saying is a good starting point
      [14:50] <Coasty> I need to load up some DViews articles
      [14:50] <BOS> i'm currently using WBTB and MILD what can i do to increase my chances of becoming lucid?
      [14:50] <Coasty> so I have them ready in the morning
      [14:50] <Coasty> BOS: trying WILD.
      [14:50] <Sensei> Every technique for lucidity or otherwise will need to be modified for your personal use.
      [14:50] <Coasty> BOS: ADA.
      [14:50] <Coasty> RCs
      [14:50] <zachlew> I do wbtb and the ssild thing
      [14:50] <zachlew> + mild
      [14:50] <Sensei> BOS. MOAR WBTBs!
      [14:51] <BOS> lol
      [14:51] <orationem> lol
      [14:51] <TiredJoe> SSILD 4 LYFE
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> yes, anything to increase your awareness
      [14:51] <@gab> BOS , add some DILD to it
      [14:51] <Sensei> I gtg again. Not coming back this time.
      [14:51] <orationem> i'm thinking of trying ssild or fild along with mild
      [14:51] <orationem> bye Sensei
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> even if you don't immediately WILD, if your awareness level is high, you can hit a DILD
      [14:51] <Coasty> rip Sensei
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> kinda what I do
      [14:51] <Coasty> u will be missed
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> see you Sensei thanks
      [14:51] == Sensei [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
      [14:51] <BOS> i had my first LD without doing any RCs
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah I don't RC much
      [14:51] <Coasty> me neither
      [14:52] <Coasty> but sometimes it works
      [14:52] <BOS> has soon has the dream started i knew it was a dream
      [14:52] <orationem> i don't really either
      [14:52] <Coasty> like in one dream I randomly pinched my nose
      [14:52] <Coasty> and did a nose RC
      [14:52] <Coasty> and got lucid that way
      [14:52] <@gab> it's not randomly
      [14:52] <@OpheliaBlue> RCs don't always work in the dream anyway.. awareness is a feeling
      [14:52] <@OpheliaBlue> and the RC is supposed to test it, but it can fail
      [14:52] <Coasty> I don't remember anything triggering it
      [14:52] <orationem> i don't think i've ever gotten lucid strictly from rcs
      [14:52] <Coasty> I was just sitting there in a room
      [14:52] <TiredJoe> My first i just KNEW and subsequent have been variants on WILD or SSILD where the goal is keeping awareness. Still try ADA but usually turns out to be mid-morning awareness
      [14:53] <Coasty> and my hand moved reflexively to my nose
      [14:53] <Coasty> and that triggered it
      [14:53] <@OpheliaBlue> very cool
      [14:53] <@gab> ayyyyy
      [14:53] <orationem> i was aware of the details of the dream, got lucid without sspecifically doing an rc
      [14:53] <BOS> but i will try wild, even if it fails it should still increase my chances of getting lucid right?
      [14:53] <orationem> yeah it should, i think
      [14:54] <trancewalker> I use as an RC ,,being attentive,,
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah, you can aim for a couple different techniques
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> but be aware, utilize the most from your WBTB
      [14:54] <trancewalker> but i RC rarely too
      [14:54] <@gab> guys, RC are not the thing that gets you lucid, it's the feeling and thoughts that you use when RCing during day that do
      [14:54] <@gab> RCs are just a vehicle to your awareness
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah I told them that
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> they got it
      [14:54] <BOS> ok currently my chances with wbtb are 50/50 tried two nights with it
      [14:54] <orationem> even if you don't get lucid from the wild attempt, it can make you more aware/thinking more about lucids, making a dild more likely
      [14:55] <@OpheliaBlue> ^^
      [14:55] <Coasty> gab: sure I mean, they cause you to think "hold on, this shouldn't be possible"
      [14:55] <zachlew> yeah all my lucids it just seemed like a dream then I tested something
      [14:55] <@OpheliaBlue> wow this hour went by FAST
      [14:55] <Oreo> it's more like an RC is a way for you to prove to yourself that you are dreaming
      [14:55] <Oreo> when you have doubts or are not quite yet convinced
      [14:55] <orationem> trying wild can't really hurt your chances of getting lucid. unless it keeps you from falling asleep
      [14:55] <Coasty> Oreo: or are about to do something dangerous
      [14:55] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah, though the proof can fail
      [14:55] <orationem> yeah, it did lol
      [14:55] <TiredJoe> I do my mantra when i wild, mostly to keep my focus away from the fact that im choking on my own spit
      [14:55] <Oreo> doing the RC will just allow you to make up your mind on the subject
      [14:55] <Coasty> and want to know that you're safe
      [14:55] <@OpheliaBlue> so need to rely on more than just a mechanical RC
      [14:56] <Oreo> Coasty: to be fair, if you're about to do something life threatening, you're probably in a dream
      [14:56] <@OpheliaBlue> haha
      [14:56] <Oreo> the average sane person will not want to jump off a building unless they're dreaming
      [14:56] <zachlew> yeah flying failed for me and I hit the ground hard in one dream
      [14:56] <Coasty> like I did that once, I wanted to control someone's mind and I went "better make sure this is a dream or else things might turn out badly"
      [14:56] <Oreo> we do in fact think a bit differently while we are dreaming
      [14:56] <Oreo> even if we are a aware or not
      [14:56] <@OpheliaBlue> I believe that
      [14:57] <orationem> makes sense
      [14:57] <Coasty> Oreo: I think that if you're very, very lucid you start to think like in waking life
      [14:57] <Coasty> At least that's what happens to me in good lucids
      [14:57] <Oreo> to some extent Coasty
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> once I'm lucid, I can usually float in the air so I don't doubt that I'm dreaming
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> so that's like an RC I geuss, but it happens automatically
      [14:57] <Coasty> I even recalled an IRC conversation because I forgot what to do in a dream
      [14:57] <BOS> one thing that i tried when i got my first LD was to focus on my intent to become lucid not just my mantra
      [14:57] <trancewalker> oh... btw it is common for some1 to mistake reality for dream world when he is in reality?
      [14:58] <Oreo> not common at all
      [14:58] <Coasty> trancewalker: no
      [14:58] <Oreo> i won't say it doesn't happen
      [14:58] <Oreo> but it is an incredibly rare event
      [14:58] <TiredJoe> The whole point is being aware, so that would be like the opposite of lucid dreaming
      [14:58] <orationem> doesn't typically happen, i don't think
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> ok y'all can keep talking about whatevers, but I'm going to log this class from this point
      [14:58] <Oreo> and that event is from someone who has some kind of mental disorder that alters their way of thinking in reality
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> thanks everyone who came to learn and who came to help
      [14:58] <orationem> unless there's maybe something like a mental disorder
      [14:58] <Oreo> such as schizophrenia for example
      [14:58] <zachlew> thanks
      [14:58] <orationem> yeah %
      [14:58] <orationem> ^*
      [14:59] <TiredJoe> thanks for the info
      [14:59] == OpheliaBlue has changed nick to OpheliaBlue|Away
      [14:59] <@OpheliaBlue|Away> I'll leave the channel unmuted for a while
      Last edited by OpheliaBlue; 07-15-2015 at 09:46 PM.
      Mismagius, Wisher, Zachlew and 1 others like this.

    4. #154
      Member OpheliaBlue's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2004
      Aisle NEIN
      DJ Entries
      Sorry, forgot to post the class time in here. Hopefully you all got the PM. Thanks to everyone who attended! We covered a wide range of topics:

      Recall & Keeping a DJ
      Communicating with your Subconscious
      Writing In the Dream
      Dream Incubation
      Dream Locations
      WBTB & Awareness for Lucidity

      Spoiler for #DVA 7/24/2015:
      [13:59] <@OpheliaBlue|BRB> !back
      [13:59] == OpheliaBlue|BRB has changed nick to OpheliaBlue
      [13:59] <@OpheliaBlue> Class is smaller today so probably just go a half hour
      [14:00] <@OpheliaBlue> How's everybody's dreams going?
      [14:00] <@Mismagius^^> Some might arrive late
      [14:00] <@OpheliaBlue> possibru
      [14:03] <Oreo> i had a dream i was trapped in a mansion with a vampire
      [14:03] <@spellbee2> oh hey, it's time
      [14:03] <Oreo> i was trying to find a cure for the vampire but they didn't want to be cured
      [14:03] <Oreo> they wanted me to be a vampire
      [14:03] <Miau> Which was me
      [14:03] <Oreo> aye
      [14:03] <@Mismagius^^> I've had some cool dreams lately, fought a giant monster that was made out of like old castle stone
      [14:03] <Oreo> and they got me before i could get the cure
      [14:03] <@OpheliaBlue> cool, getting ready for halloween!
      [14:03] <Oreo> and i'm probably a vampire now
      [14:03] <orationem^> i'm kinda here but kinda not really here
      [14:05] == dorianMask [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:06] <dorianMask> Am I too late?
      [14:06] <@Mismagius^^> Nope
      [14:06] <@Mismagius^^> Welcome
      [14:06] <patience108> HI Ophilia - nice tobe here
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> hey guys
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> was just kinda waiting for a few more to show up
      [14:07] == trancewalker [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:07] <patience108> Whats the topics for today?
      [14:07] <dorianMask> :-D
      [14:07] <trancewalker> hello guys
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> I'll ask again now that more people are here: How's everyone's dreams and lucids
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> Oreo had a vampire dream
      [14:07] <@OpheliaBlue> he's one of them now
      [14:08] <trancewalker> I got nice lucid today
      [14:08] <@OpheliaBlue> oh yeah?
      [14:08] <@OpheliaBlue> how'd it go
      [14:08] <@OpheliaBlue> also DILD or what
      [14:08] <trancewalker> flying perfetly after a long time
      [14:08] == Oreo [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/]
      [14:08] <trancewalker> I usually has problems with flying in LD
      [14:09] <patience108> oh pretty good concidering i am a newbie had 2 LD the other night after wbtb not WILDS - but woulnt have got them if didnt do wbtb
      [14:09] <trancewalker> Im not sure If it was made by DEILD or WILD
      [14:09] <patience108> that was forst LD for a good few weeks tho
      [14:09] <@OpheliaBlue> how about you patience108, did you get lucid after already dreaming after your WBTB?
      [14:09] <trancewalker> I posted the whole dream in DJ online
      [14:10] <patience108> yes i was in a dream and got lucid
      [14:10] <patience108> it was great fun doind acrobatics etc
      [14:11] <patience108> then i think i had deild later on
      [14:11] <patience108> trying for WILD most nights
      [14:11] <@OpheliaBlue> haha dream acrobatics
      [14:12] <@OpheliaBlue> what about you dorianMask , how were your dreams since last week?
      [14:12] <patience108> yes my feet were on the ground and i moved forwards touching my nose to the ground and things like that
      [14:13] <@OpheliaBlue> oh man, someone should try a dream cartwheel one time
      [14:13] <@OpheliaBlue> I know someone who did backflips in her lucid before
      [14:13] <dorianMask> Recall has been on the up & up, which is good
      [14:13] <@OpheliaBlue> cool, still keeping a DJ?
      [14:13] <dorianMask> Been a few months since a solid LD for me
      [14:14] <patience108> Yes I DEFFO will do more - it was spontaniouse fun
      [14:14] <dorianMask> To be completely honest its dusty right next to my bed, I need to get back into the routine of writing down even inane details
      [14:14] <dorianMask> Usually only transcribe when I have an epic or cohesive story to tell
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> dusty? like it messes up your sleep?
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> or too dusty for a DJ lol
      [14:15] <dorianMask> Haha My DJ is dusty, unused lol
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> LOL
      [14:15] <@OpheliaBlue> ok I see how I misread that now
      [14:16] <trancewalker> I used DJ first time after like year today
      [14:16] <patience108> i know what you mean - I have to work sooo hard to keep myself writting in Dj even tho i record on a voice recorder each night
      [14:16] <dorianMask> Its funny cause I lecture all of my friends about keeping up with their dream journals talk about projection
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> I do it too
      [14:16] == Oreo [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> It's like, I can have good dreams and lucids without it, but they're more conistent when I keep up with the DJ
      [14:16] <@OpheliaBlue> and it's not just for dream recall
      [14:17] <@OpheliaBlue> when you keep a regular DJ, and reread it regularly,
      [14:17] <@OpheliaBlue> you put dreams on your mind more
      [14:17] <dorianMask> Hey now there's an idea, voice recording dreams right when you wake up..
      [14:17] <@OpheliaBlue> I feel personally, like I'm more in touch with my subconscious, when I read what it's doing everynight
      [14:17] <dorianMask> Does that affect your recall at all having to speak it?
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> I think it's great!
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> alot of folks do it
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> then re-listen to them
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> sometimes I even just tell my dreams to my bf in the car on the way to work, but then there's no record of them
      [14:18] <@OpheliaBlue> I should record myself when I do that haha
      [14:18] <dorianMask> Same with texts to friends lol
      [14:18] <trancewalker> I remember when I was writing in my DJ every day every detail I could remember for two weeks
      [14:19] == Leroguro [[email protected]] has quit [Client closed the connection]
      [14:19] <trancewalker> I had every day at least one LD
      [14:19] <patience108> It playes a very omportant role but so easy to ignore - funny and soo boring so i hav loads recorded and i try to transcribe them weekly
      [14:19] <@OpheliaBlue> You can do all kinds of things, like just bullet points
      [14:19] <@OpheliaBlue> or even drawing something
      [14:19] <patience108> sometimes i record 4 or 5 a night
      [14:20] <dorianMask> Feels like my clarity of recall used to be laughable compared to where I am now, can hardly remember a single experience a night whereas it used to no less than half a dozen :-/
      [14:20] <patience108> has been more if long lie in - do you think its ok then Ophilia as long as I listen to them regularly aswell
      [14:21] == PKJacker [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah I get more dreams and lucids when I can sleep in late. And definitely listen to your dreams over and over again
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> listen to or reread them
      [14:21] <@OpheliaBlue> It puts your waking mind in the same frame of mind you were in when you were dreaming
      [14:22] <@OpheliaBlue> increasing your chances for lucids later on
      [14:22] <@OpheliaBlue> kind of like making your subconscious mind into a pen pal, if that makes sense
      [14:22] <Oreo> pretty sure it's the simple fact that more sleep = more dreams
      [14:22] <dorianMask> I like the idea of an open line of communication with your SC
      [14:22] <patience108> i have been underestimating this i think - of re listening regularly
      [14:23] <@OpheliaBlue> and the reverse works as well, while you're in a lucid, say things that you want your waking self to remember and write down
      [14:23] <@OpheliaBlue> [14:22] <dorianMask> I like the idea of an open line of communication with your SC
      [14:23] <@OpheliaBlue> ^^
      [14:23] <@OpheliaBlue> yes that
      [14:24] <patience108> Yes that sounds exellent
      [14:24] <dorianMask> Which if our dreams really are messages from the silent mind, it would make sense why some lucid dreamers are derailed by their SC
      [14:24] <trancewalker> haha doing recall in LD
      [14:24] <@OpheliaBlue> Sometimes when I'm in a lucid that's going for a long time, I force myself to remember key words so I won't forget details when I wake up
      [14:24] <@OpheliaBlue> absolutely
      [14:24] <dorianMask> Or "distracted" as sometimes reported
      [14:25] <dorianMask> wasn't there a totm once about making a dream journal entry in dream?
      [14:25] <@OpheliaBlue> I know we've had totm's where you had to write stuff
      [14:26] <trancewalker> once in DEILD chain In one LD I tried to memorize like 5-10 keywords, when I woke up I recalled like 2 of them
      [14:26] <@OpheliaBlue> had to write what we did in waking life before bed, and the best I could write was "I had CHICKN for dinr"
      [14:26] <@OpheliaBlue> something like that lol
      [14:26] <@OpheliaBlue> and one time, was to write november backwards
      [14:27] == spellbee2 has changed nick to spellbee2|Away
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> I made myself memorise in waking life the "rebmevon" otherwise I think I would have been hopeless lol
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> another cool one was to write something in waking life on paper, hide it, then find it in the lucid dream
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> and read it
      [14:27] <patience108> Yes speaking outloud in LD i have tried a little - it was great - deffo cominication with self felt satisfying - to hav ethat much presence to write something or remember something from WL - COOL!
      [14:27] <@OpheliaBlue> that one was crazy
      [14:28] <@OpheliaBlue> yoh Dutch !
      [14:29] == bobbyhill007 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:29] <patience108> During incubation - is it like we are doing this cominicating thing to our sub?
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> there you is
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> I force joined him in here so he might not realize yet that he's in here
      [14:29] <@OpheliaBlue> yoh bobbyhill007 !
      [14:30] <patience108> Hello bobbyhill007!
      [14:30] <@OpheliaBlue> patience108: yeah I think so
      [14:30] == PKJacker [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:30] <@OpheliaBlue> especially if during incubation, you're creating a scenario where you imagine that you are dreaming, then becoming lucid
      [14:30] <@OpheliaBlue> putting yourself in that position as much as possible
      [14:31] <bobbyhill007> hello
      [14:32] <patience108> Your thing is incubation I heard you say once I think - how much is good to realy infultrate - daytime? befor bed? during wbtb? on wild dive?
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> hiya billybob
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> oh I incubate all the time.. like if I'm daydreaming, I'm incubating a lucid
      [14:32] <@OpheliaBlue> but it's most powerful for me when I do it during a WBTB
      [14:33] <bobbyhill007> i think i kno what your talking about
      [14:33] == TangledEarphone [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:33] <bobbyhill007> i used to get real vivid daydream like senerios where they were like dreams but not complete dreams yet
      [14:33] <@OpheliaBlue> hi TangledEarphone
      [14:33] <patience108> you mean literaly most of your time your kinda half here and half imagining scenes etc?
      [14:33] == Oreo has changed nick to Oreo|Away
      [14:34] == ParadoxOwl [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> patience108: yes
      [14:34] <patience108> or for bits of time regularly - or both?
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> hi ParadoxOwl
      [14:34] <Dutch> hi everyone
      [14:34] <Dutch> I'm here for the class
      [14:34] <ParadoxOwl> wut dis?
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> just bits of time patience108 , throughout the day
      [14:34] <@OpheliaBlue> but when I'm going to sleep during WBTB, it's the whole time
      [14:34] <bobbyhill007> this is class paradox
      [14:35] <@OpheliaBlue> ParadoxOwl: this is the DreamViews Academy class
      [14:35] <@OpheliaBlue> we started it back up again
      [14:35] <patience108> have u done ever created a place you might go regularly?
      [14:35] <@OpheliaBlue> though it's more of a discussion/Q&A than a class
      [14:35] <@OpheliaBlue> patience108: you bet! Hogwarts!
      [14:35] <@OpheliaBlue> like 99% of the time lol
      [14:36] * ParadoxOwl makes raspberry noises to distract the female sitting at the desk to the side of him
      [14:36] <Dutch> So what happens in these classes, usually
      [14:36] <@OpheliaBlue> depending on the level of the students Dutch, we just discuss LD topics, and answer questions anyone has
      [14:36] <patience108> Actualy Hogwarts? Cool
      [14:37] <@OpheliaBlue> how about you others, what are your most common dream landscapes/places?
      [14:37] <@OpheliaBlue> for me it's hogwarts, and oddly, my front yard
      [14:37] <@OpheliaBlue> most of my explorations start in my yard
      [14:37] <Dutch> I have a pretty vivid imaginary place I hang out with with tulpas sometimes I guess
      [14:37] <TangledEarphone> I dream about trains. I've had different types of trains in my dreams
      [14:37] <trancewalker> most common dream place? umm... my room - because of quantity DEILD and WILDs technique used
      [14:37] <Dutch> but for some strange reason, neither they or that place have ever appeared in my dreams
      [14:38] <bobbyhill007> i couldnt even tell u if i tried
      [14:38] <bobbyhill007> usually my neighborhood or a city
      [14:38] <Dutch> I recognized the center of my high school town as being a recurring location for my dreams
      [14:38] <bobbyhill007> im having trouble with dream rcall atm
      [14:38] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah I get my room alot to, but I always leave it by te door or going theough the wall or floor
      [14:38] == ParadoxOwl [[email protected]] has left #DVA ["Swiggity Swooty, I'm coming for dat booty"]
      [14:38] <TangledEarphone> Lol I once had a 4 dreams back to back. In one of them my entire room had tilted 90 degrees
      [14:38] <@OpheliaBlue> oh yeah, alot of folks dream of school. and malls
      [14:39] <trancewalker> most time I go through window(closed )
      [14:39] <@OpheliaBlue> I think if you dream about specific locations alot, dream incubation could start with those places. You can always leave it once the dream starts. But for inducing lucidity it could increase chances.
      [14:39] <@OpheliaBlue> Just a thought.
      [14:39] <TangledEarphone> Mine too. School is a recurring theme.
      [14:39] <dorianMask> Walking through walls usually ends horribly for me lol too much x-files
      [14:40] <@OpheliaBlue> oh do you get stuck?
      [14:40] <@OpheliaBlue> or you end up in messed up places
      [14:40] <dorianMask> more I don't intend to end up anywhere to it usually just destabilizes everything
      [14:40] <patience108> when you do wild dive you do place incubating in the same way - do you use the place incubation as an anchor?
      [14:40] <trancewalker> I don't like walking through walls too
      [14:40] <@OpheliaBlue> you could try a window like trancewalker , because then you never lose sight of the scene on the other side
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> and keep your eyes open
      [14:41] <trancewalker> I often end up in... REM atonia
      [14:41] <patience108> i got stuch in wall once - got out in the end ha ha
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> dun dun DUNNNNN
      [14:41] <trancewalker> yes windows and doors
      [14:41] <dorianMask> Its usually a very organic feeling experience for me, yeah panes of glass/doors usually work much better
      [14:41] == TangledEarphone [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
      [14:41] <@OpheliaBlue> we had a phase through mirror task once as well
      [14:42] <dorianMask> My brain can't comprehend mirrors in dreams
      [14:42] <@OpheliaBlue> well we have about 15 minutes left, does anyone have any pressing questions or topics?
      [14:42] <Dutch> I still have trouble with becoming lucid or thinking at all in dreams
      [14:42] == PKJacker [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
      [14:43] <trancewalker> in my dreams thinking too much usually destabilize dream
      [14:43] <trancewalker> for example when I was memorizing keywords during LD - it almost crashed so I had to stop
      [14:43] <patience108> Mirror was fun - but pitch dark on other side
      [14:44] <@OpheliaBlue> Dutch: have you ever had a lucid dream, or an experience that you feel was close?
      [14:44] <trancewalker> I ve never made much experiences with mirrors
      [14:44] <Dutch> what kind of stuff do people tend to do in waking life that leads to consistent LDs?
      [14:44] <Dutch> yeah, once or twice, Ophelia
      [14:44] <@OpheliaBlue> do you remember how you got lucid? like what was happening in the dream just before you got lucid
      [14:45] <Dutch> I had a very short lucid dream which was nonsensical in that I realized I was dreaming because too many hot dogs in my fridge
      [14:45] <@OpheliaBlue> oh lol!
      [14:45] <Dutch> then I imagined my tulpas, hugged for like a second and woke up
      [14:45] <Dutch> second time I was like "whooaaaaaa I'm dreaming I'm lucid" and then I woke up
      [14:45] <@OpheliaBlue> well things you can do in the day are plenty of sleep and good diet obviously,
      [14:45] <trancewalker> what? hotdogs
      [14:45] <patience108> Talking out loud helps me alot to get stuff comunicated so far - even to myself...only done it a couple of times but worked well
      [14:45] <Dutch> but I woke up in a house I haven't been in for 10 years so I guess that was wrong
      [14:45] <@OpheliaBlue> but also keeping DJs and incubating during WBTB like we discussed here earlier
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> also, next time you are lucid, try to take a moment to inhale your surroundings
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> so you don't wake up so fast
      [14:46] <Dutch> sounds good
      [14:46] <Dutch> guess I can't get too excited
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> oh yeah that's another common dream scene I forgot, houses you used to live in
      [14:46] == PKJacker [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
      [14:46] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah, focusing on remembering a few goals helps calm you down
      [14:46] <Dutch> I tend to recite my dreams out loud every morning as far as I remember them, but I have little incentive to still write them down or share them with people here
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> also just looking, listening and touching things, looking at your hands
      [14:47] <Dutch> so I guess more observing, less thinking and panicking?
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> just calmly absorb your surroundings before going straight to something like flying
      [14:47] <Dutch> not that I panicked, just got excited
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> yes exactly hehe
      [14:47] <Dutch> neat
      [14:47] <trancewalker> panicking in LD?
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> by nature, most of my LDs start out calmly because I'm in my bed at the start
      [14:47] <@OpheliaBlue> so most begin by the simple act of getting out of the bed, looking around for a moment, then leaving the room
      [14:48] <Dutch> what techniques do you use?
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> by then everything is stabilized
      [14:48] <Dutch> I guess you just wake up in the dream, huh
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> I always WBTB, sometimes more than once if I sleep in, like patience108 mentioned
      [14:48] <@OpheliaBlue> then I'll either DILD or WILD, which ever happens naturally
      [14:48] <trancewalker> thats whats the DILD technique about Dutch
      [14:48] <trancewalker> waking up inside dream
      [14:49] <@OpheliaBlue> well, becomeing lucid in the dream, not literally wakeing up
      [14:49] <trancewalker> better said
      [14:49] <patience108> Is that something incubated? or just happens - waking in your room? I like it
      [14:49] <@OpheliaBlue> I don't incubate it, I believe it's "day residue"
      [14:49] <@OpheliaBlue> my subC just creates a scene based on what it saw most recently
      [14:49] <patience108> its cool tho
      [14:50] <@OpheliaBlue> when I wbtb, I'm staring at my room, so when I WILD, it starts out still in my room
      [14:50] <@OpheliaBlue> have to be on your toes because that can easily turn into a false awakening
      [14:50] <patience108> you know where u are
      [14:50] <@OpheliaBlue> so I just assume it worked and I'm always right
      [14:50] <@OpheliaBlue> that's a cool trick actually
      [14:50] <@OpheliaBlue> always assume when you wake up, that you're dreaming
      [14:50] <Dutch> I kind of have trouble figuring out the time where I should wake up for WBTB
      [14:50] <PKJacker> That's pretty cool, so you don't rc?
      [14:51] <Dutch> I tracked my sleep a few nights with my phone but then it got dunked into the toilet
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> Dutch: try 4-6 hours after you go to sleep
      [14:51] <trancewalker> ophelia, I started one my WILD on my WC (because I thought incorrectly I fell asleep there
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> PKJacker: not anymore
      [14:51] <PKJacker> Nice
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> took me like 10 years of doing it to get the right feel
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> but alot of people are faster than me lol
      [14:51] <patience108> I think incubation is big key - through the day do you realy think all the time about your dream scene -
      [14:51] <@OpheliaBlue> thank goodness
      [14:52] <Dutch> could you run me through how you go through a night of wbtb? including the day before, intentions, and what you do when you wake up and start falling asleep?
      [14:52] <PKJacker> What I used to do for wbtb is tell myself the next time I see my eye lids I'll wake up, so I always woke up that way alert and ready to ld
      [14:52] <patience108> 10 years ! wow theres hope for me -
      [14:52] <Dutch> I have a lot of trouble keeping my mind on anything at all with hypnogogia and all
      [14:52] <@OpheliaBlue> patience108: if I find the time to daydream, I always incubate a lucid. that way I can dream what I want, if that makes sense
      [14:52] <@OpheliaBlue> that's cool PK, never thought of doing something like that
      [14:53] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah the mind likes to race around during hypnogogia
      [14:53] <PKJacker> What do you mean by it races around?
      [14:53] <PKJacker> I don't think I have that
      [14:53] <@OpheliaBlue> as long as you keep up your lucid practices, you'll be able to DILD at least
      [14:53] <PKJacker> ^
      [14:54] <PKJacker> DILD comes pretty naturally after doing ld stuff
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> yes
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> my first LDs and all the LDs I had for years were DILDs, until I figured out WILDs and DEILDs
      [14:54] <trancewalker>
      [14:54] <@OpheliaBlue> and I still DILD, probably 1/3 of the time
      [14:55] <trancewalker> same for me
      [14:55] <Dutch> dild is just intention and trying to reality check your way into going lucid, hoping you figure it out during/
      [14:55] <Dutch> I guess my dreams are very much all over the place, and I've taken months to even find a single recurring place now
      [14:55] <Dutch> so that's been troublesome so far
      [14:55] <PKJacker> DILD is pretty complicated
      [14:55] == Miau [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Bye]
      [14:56] <@OpheliaBlue> that's ok, dreams scenes don't have to be consistent, just your awareness during the day and during your WBTB
      [14:56] <PKJacker> You can just have enough awareness to simply know it's a dream sometimes
      [14:56] <PKJacker> From the feeling
      [14:56] <@OpheliaBlue> yeah
      [14:56] <patience108> do you spend lots of time incubating - like sometimes lots of minutes ... or just on and off for example during the day and during wild dive?
      [14:56] <@OpheliaBlue> sometimes it happens to me as I'm seconds away from waking up naturally from the dream, because I suddenly start to question things
      [14:56] <PKJacker> I barely ever have the same place in dreams btw
      [14:57] <PKJacker> Yeah I have that too OpheliaBlue
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> lots of minutes patience108 haha
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> like the whole time I'm at work
      [14:57] <PKJacker> Lol
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> making cakes all day doesn't require alot of thinking about cakes
      [14:57] <@OpheliaBlue> so I mentally go wherever the hell I want
      [14:57] == Oreo|Away has changed nick to Oreo
      [14:57] <patience108> Usualy hogwarts
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> and for me, the biggest number 1 helper for me to get lucid,
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> is sleeping in late
      [14:58] <Dutch> mmm
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> I don't usually get lucid from the first WBTB
      [14:58] <PKJacker> Not spicy food?
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> I usually have 2 or 3 or sometimes 4
      [14:58] <Dutch> guess I need to get to work on that incubating and visualizing going lucid
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> haha spicy food gives me crazy dreams, not necessarily lucid ones
      [14:58] <Dutch> So first you sleep normally, then you wbtb until you can't sleep?
      [14:58] <patience108> yes sleeping realy helps - but i am gonna try more imagining
      [14:58] <@OpheliaBlue> yes
      [14:59] <@OpheliaBlue> usually after the first WBTB, I'm still too sleepy and not aware enough
      [14:59] <PKJacker> Interesting, my wbtb attempts usually are worse the more I've tried before that
      [14:59] <@OpheliaBlue> it's just a potty break lol
      [14:59] <@OpheliaBlue> I guess it's just me, my subC needs his beauty sleep
      [15:00] <@OpheliaBlue> alright it's 3pm, I'm going to log the class from here
      [15:00] <PKJacker> Alright
      [15:00] <@OpheliaBlue> feel free to keep talking here for a while, and I'll mute the channel in an hour or so
      [15:00] <patience108> i sopse you keep ur self sleepy with your incubations?
      [15:01] <@OpheliaBlue> thanks everybody for coming!

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