Thread: Fish Oil

Originally Posted by the

also if anyone can briefly tell me what are the best things to consume for lucid dreams that would be awesome.. icluding everything, food, vitamins ect... also what prevents lucid dreaming??[/b]

I know that B6 makes dreams more vivid [as do bananas] and some say that B6 and melatonin together aid in lucid dreams. I know that you should doing a nutmeg trip, it's not worth it and it's easy to OD on.

Message sephiroth clock. He has been talking up the benefits of drinking tumeric tea and he will be more than happy to advise you on every aspect of your diet.

Remember that when you take fish oil, you're not interested in what fish oil will do to you; you're interested in what omega-3 essential fatty acids DHA and EPA will do to you. Like the name implies, these fatty acids are essential and you will fall prey to all sorts of neurological and physiological diseases if you don't get enough of them (or massive amounts of their precursor, ALA, since the conversion rate from ALA to those two is laughably inefficient).

So suggesting that fish oil/EPA/DHA will do anything to your lucid dreams is the wrong way to look at it, since you're not supplementing your diet with a novel chemical but patching in a deficient diet with an essential chemical. Taking fish oil makes your body work better and closer to the ideal image of human health; since lucid dreams aren't really tied to being healthy per se, I see no reason why fish oil would vivify/elucidate your dreams.

Anecdotal info: I started taking 2-3 grams of fish oil daily about half a year ago, and the vividity/lucidity of my dreams has not changed a notch. Take fish oil anyways (or eat fish, or eat organ meats from grass-fed animals - which do you prefer? That's exactly why most modern humans are deficient in these long-chain EFAs, because most of their sources are unsavory according to conventional tastes) since its benefits to your whole person are immense - I can personally vouch for it loosening the shackles of depression on a person's mind, if nothing else.

Originally Posted by Spamtek

Remember that when you take fish oil, you're not interested in what fish oil will do to you; you're interested in what omega-3 essential fatty acids DHA and EPA will do to you. Like the name implies, these fatty acids are essential and you will fall prey to all sorts of neurological and physiological diseases if you don't get enough of them (or massive amounts of their precursor, ALA, since the conversion rate from ALA to those two is laughably inefficient).

So suggesting that fish oil/EPA/DHA will do anything to your lucid dreams is the wrong way to look at it, since you're not supplementing your diet with a novel chemical but patching in a deficient diet with an essential chemical. Taking fish oil makes your body work better and closer to the ideal image of human health; since lucid dreams aren't really tied to being healthy per se, I see no reason why fish oil would vivify/elucidate your dreams.

Anecdotal info: I started taking 2-3 grams of fish oil daily about half a year ago, and the vividity/lucidity of my dreams has not changed a notch. Take fish oil anyways (or eat fish, or eat organ meats from grass-fed animals - which do you prefer? That's exactly why most modern humans are deficient in these long-chain EFAs, because most of their sources are unsavory according to conventional tastes) since its benefits to your whole person are immense - I can personally vouch for it loosening the shackles of depression on a person's mind, if nothing else.[/b]

You don't need fish oil supplements to get omega-3.
One teaspoon of flax seed oil a day is a very good source of omega-3. Just make sure it's a cold-pressed flax oil, and keep it the fridge because heat ruins the omega-3.
To get more detailed info on this you can check out: http://www.vegsoc.org/info/omega3.html

I started taking Omega 3-6-9 caps, 1 per day. We don't eat nearly enough fish so I had to supplement it.

Originally Posted by Phydeaux_3

I started taking Omega 3-6-9 caps, 1 per day. We don't eat nearly enough fish so I had to supplement it.

[/b]

Sorry to be a nudge, but like I said, no fish or supplemets are nassasary to get the essential fatty acids.

EDIT: Spamtek, your avatar rules.

Originally Posted by dodobird

Sorry to be a nudge, but like I said, no fish or supplemets are nassasary to get the essential fatty acids.

EDIT: Spamtek, your avatar rules.[/b]

Thanks, but I'm going to have to get all adversarial on you now.

Plant-sourced omega-3s are exclusively of the short-chain Alpha-Linolenic Acid variety*. I mentioned in my prior post that human conversion rates of ALA to longer-chained EPA and DHA are extremely inefficient. If you're a vegetarian or vegan it's in your ethical best interest to argue that what long-chain EFAs we convert from a diet high in ALA is enough for us to function optimally, but there is little support of this. Clinical studies comparing the different omega-3 fatty acids consistently show impressive benefits for upped consumption of EPA/DHA but little or conflicting evidence for the same role for ALA.

Maybe if you consumed 100g of flax oil a day you could synthesize enough EPA and DHA to get by, but consuming that much polyunsaturated fat in and of itself has major problems (it creates a higher peroxidizability index of your cell wall membranes, making them break down and decay faster with age). And you can simply never know that you're getting getting enough by "trusting in your conversion factor" since that rate can vary wildly from person to person and from moment to moment.

*EPA and DHA actually come from "plants" too, bacteria in the bodies of living animals, but there is no naturally occurring source of EPA/DHA outside of animal flesh.

Originally Posted by Spamtek

Thanks, but I'm going to have to get all adversarial on you now.

Plant-sourced omega-3s are exclusively of the short-chain Alpha-Linolenic Acid variety*. I mentioned in my prior post that human conversion rates of ALA to longer-chained EPA and DHA are extremely inefficient. If you're a vegetarian or vegan it's in your ethical best interest to argue that what long-chain EFAs we convert from a diet high in ALA is enough for us to function optimally, but there is little support of this. Clinical studies comparing the different omega-3 fatty acids consistently show impressive benefits for upped consumption of EPA/DHA but little or conflicting evidence for the same role for ALA.

Maybe if you consumed 100g of flax oil a day you could synthesize enough EPA and DHA to get by, but consuming that much polyunsaturated fat in and of itself has major problems (it creates a higher peroxidizability index of your cell wall membranes, making them break down and decay faster with age). And you can simply never know that you're getting getting enough by "trusting in your conversion factor" since that rate can vary wildly from person to person and from moment to moment.

*EPA and DHA actually come from "plants" too, bacteria in the bodies of living animals, but there is no naturally occurring source of EPA/DHA outside of animal flesh.[/b]

Thank you for the information. I never studied this particular topic in depth so I can't give you an adjucated answare. I hope I can find some time to check it out.
However, what you say contradicts with what some researchers say, that plant source omega-3 is enough.
Also, there are many examples of perfectly healthy people that are strictly vegan.

Originally Posted by dodobird

Thank you for the information. I never studied this particular topic in depth so I can't give you an adjucated answare. I hope I can find some time to check it out.
However, what you say contradicts with what some researchers say, that plant source omega-3 is enough.
Also, there are many examples of perfectly healthy people that are strictly vegan.[/b]

Don't think for a minute that researchers are immune to bias (personal, ethical, commercial) in their work. While I accept that such bias may exist in what I've read up on, I believe that all things considered there's more reason to be doubtful of pro-veg* research than others, simply because the ethical side of food research can and does blind even the most professional of researchers to the truth, either consciously or unconsciously. That isn't to say that all pro-veg* research is baseless and fraudulent, of course.

There is no "perfectly healthy" as you describe it. I have no doubts that a person today can live a fully vegan life without wasting away too prematurely... and compared to the SAD (Standard American Diet), veganism is an incredible step in the right direction, but just because vegans are healthier than Joe Burgereater does not mean that they're healthiest. Like I said, the body converts ALA to EPA and DHA. It's not a question of whether vegans are getting those long-chain PUFAs or not (they are), but of whether they're getting an optimal amount, and everything I've read and seen and heard suggests: no, they're not. Unless they supplement with fish oil or synthesized fatty acids, and either of those options means that it's no longer vegan or natural. The problem with Vitamin B12 is even more prominent: you have to eat animal products or get it synthesized from a pill, or you will develop permanent brain damage. Period!