Melatonin: What went wrong?

**Kuhnada29** · 11-12-2009 11:58 AM

So after reading up on all the good experiences with melatonin on erowid, I get a ride to CVS last night and buy a 6 dollar bottle.

Each pill is 5 milligrams each.

I read so much about how good melatonin is for having very intense vivid dreams.

I dumped one 5mg pill at about 8 o clock...and watched t.v., an hour later I did notice a subtle tiredness, but it wasn't an intense tiredness, but a sort of relaxation you could say. I proceeded to lay down and close my eyes, it was easier to keep my eyes shut and not move from that one pill. But I still couldn't sleep...I think I was too anxious to wake up and have intense dreams that I could not sleep. I kept tossing and turning trying to get to sleep for a minute.

My girl calls, I talk to her for a little while, and hang up. I get frustrated with not being able to fall asleep as fast as I wanted, so I proceeded to take another 5mg melatonin pill around maybe 9:30 or 10:00 I'm not too sure what the exact time was but not that much later I was "knocked out".

I then wake up around 5:30a.m. to not remember a single shred of dream and feeling a little sluggish. I'm so disappointed, I've read nothing but good of melatonin. I think the sleep that I had was deep. Maybe I took too much?

Did I take too much?

How much should I take tonight?

from wikipedia:

Large doses of melatonin can even be counterproductive: Lewy et al.[78] provide support to the "idea that too much melatonin may spill over onto the wrong zone of the melatonin phase-response curve" (PRC). In one of their subjects, 0.5 mg of melatonin was effective while 20 mg was not.

I did not know this. Should I just take 5mg tonight? Or cut a 5mg pill in half and only take half?

Melatonin experts I need your help.

**evildoctor** · 11-12-2009 03:18 PM

I think you took too much and at the wrong time.

I only take melo as I am going to bed. 5mg is the most I use. I have some 3mg pills which I am using now.

I think you took the first tab way too early in the evening and didnt need the second one.

I normally go to bed between 10:30 and 11:30. I take the melo with a glass of water or fruit juice in the kitchen, then I go up to bed, I read for 15-20 minutes and the melo kicks in and I can no longer keep my eyes open.

I have found that taking too much is counter productive - I just end up with a long deep dreamless sleep and feel kind of dopey the next day.

I have had the same thing several times with L-Tryphopan.

**Serenity** · 11-12-2009 03:33 PM

I don't have experience with the melatonin part, but an idea that might help further relax you is to do one of the first WILD steps... to clear your mind and focus only on your breathing. Count in your head "one" while breathing in, and "I'm dreaming" as you're breathing out and so on.

You'll either experience an immediate WILD or I guess there comes a point where, once you feel those images pulling you in, you go with it.

I guess what I'm getting at is the meditation really! Soooo helpful for getting past the excitedness and getting to sleep.

**Kuhnada29** · 11-12-2009 05:17 PM

evil doctor: Ok, i'll just take (1) 5mg pill tonight and see how that works out.

It seems on erowid that people have had amazing and "liberating" results from just a 600 microgram pill...i can't even CUT the pill to that amount. Should I just cut the 5mg pill in half? I should have about 2.5 mg's or so then.

On erowid it seems like the lowest dose possible is the best. I don't understand how a pill is MORE effective the LESS you take..that makes no sense at all. I do know it works this way with weed. It's so odd.

**evildoctor** · 11-12-2009 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

evil doctor: Ok, i'll just take (1) 5mg pill tonight and see how that works out.

It seems on erowid that people have had amazing and "liberating" results from just a 600 microgram pill...i can't even CUT the pill to that amount. Should I just cut the 5mg pill in half? I should have about 2.5 mg's or so then.

On erowid it seems like the lowest dose possible is the best. I don't understand how a pill is MORE effective the LESS you take..that makes no sense at all. I do know it works this way with weed. It's so odd.

Dont forget theres a number of things to factor in here.

1) Different things effect people in different ways based on natural tollerance, weight, metabolism, etc.
2) Supplements dont work the same way everytime you take them. Our bodies are highly complex. Dont forget that melotonin is a precursor to serotonin - this transformation can be effected by other substances in the body - for example Nicacin (B3) aids the conversion process. Therefore depending on what you have eaten you might have more or less B3 in your body. There may be other things which work against the conversion.
3) Placebo effect.

BEst advice with supplements is to start with low amounts and work up. After all - by taking melotonin you are hoping to get some "REM Rebound" - so you will sleep deeper in your first 3 or so dream cycles - with lots of REM later.

So to get the best from Melotonin you should be combining it with a WBTB/WILD atempt after 5 hours of sleep and for DILD you should be using it before a good long night when you can enjoy 8+ hours of sleep.

**Kuhnada29** · 11-13-2009 05:03 PM

No I'm not trying to WILD. I'm just trying to wake up with vivid dreams to record. By the way there is nothing placebo about melatonin, it's a chemical released in the brain every night that we sleep.

Last night I cut a 5mg pill and half, and took one piece. I did feel a subtle relaxness and found it easy to get to sleep. But I STILL didn't wake up with any vivid dreams. Why am I not getting vivid dreams like everyone else? Is it the cheap brand of melatonin I have? It does say melatonin on the back.

Maybe something is still fucked up because I took 10mg the first time? then took 2 or 3mg the next day?

Since I took 10mg the first time should I wait before taking melatonin again?

I don't think that these pills are time-release. Should I take them RIGHT before bed? Why am I not getting vivid dreams.

I went to bed last night at around 10:30 or 11:00, I'm just now waking up at 11:00a.m. 12 hours of sleep....was that too much melatonin?

**trev** · 11-15-2009 05:01 PM

For me, taking that much melatonin always manifests bad results. I've only done that a few times, but when I did I actually felt like I got very little sleep (felt awake for most of the night), when in reality I did get some degree of sleep. very bizarre experience.

Like others have said it depends on your body, but I only use melatonin to get sleep/regulate sleep cycle, so i typically only take 600mcg (two 300mcg tablets) anyway. I used to have 1mg two-step release pills, of which I might take one or two.

**EyeCanC4Miles** · 08-23-2010 03:06 AM

I find that Melatonin actually clouds my dream recall. I've had better luck with the other stages of the same chemical- either L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP. Actually combining one of these two said supplements with one tablet of Vitamin B-6 is usually enough for me to have very vivid and sometimes lucid dreams.

**zhineTech** · 08-24-2010 08:06 PM

I think I was too anxious to wake up and have intense dreams that I could not sleep.

you just need to chill man. i do this too sometimes, i find it is never productive.

as mentioned before the melatonin should be taken at or near bedtime, it will suppress REM for the first few hours, then rebound for the last.

**Tim_PL** · 08-25-2010 03:36 PM

After the melatonin (i tried two types of dosage: 2.5mg and 5mg) i don't remember my dreams at all! B6 or just lecithin works for me the best.

**Keitorin** · 08-28-2010 06:35 AM

Wow, I have 300mcg pills and taking just one gives me nightmares! They didn't use to, and worked fine. But yeah, what evildoctor said - and you were probably too excited as well. I find it works well when I take one, lay down and read or listen to a meditation CD. I don't get more vivid dreams (and sometimes recall) all the time, but pretty often. It depends on how well I sleep or slept that week and such.