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    1. #1
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      The True History Of Mankind - Because you can handle the truth!!

      "Some of it may have evolved. However, there's no doubt most of it is intentional. When you go in again into the history books and you realize just how long big meetings, world meetings in a sense have been held comprising of the wealthy families and their control over their countries. Mainly these families even in Europe are all related to each other, regardless of the countries they live in. They cornered every market including the educational market because they plan the society they want. They plan the next 100 years, 200 years. You don't keep power by leaving it to chance. You keep power by planning the future and altering the structure of society to make sure that you're always in charge of it."

      Quote by "Alan Watt"

      cuttingthroughthematrix.com

    2. #2
      Xei
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      "New World Order conspiracies are a pile of bullshit".

      Quote by "George Ouzounian".

    3. #3
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      Based, solely, on the credentials of those quoted; I'd say that's FOREVERLUCID - 1, Xei - O.

      Can you do any better than quoting Maddox, of all people, Xei?

    4. #4
      When the ink runs out... Kushna Mufeed's Avatar
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      Maddox, while hilarious, is not the best source for arguing your points. Thinking that New World Conspiracies are bullshit is exactly what the conspirators would want you to think, no? While I think that these New World Conspiracies hold truth, they are probably over exaggerated.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff777 View Post
      I am not sorry or empathetic whatsoever for saying that I believe the world would be much better off without people like you in it. Have a great fucking day.
      [broken link removed]The Dynamics of Segrival[/URL]
      Discuss Segrival here
      See my other [broken link removed]

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneironaut View Post
      Based, solely, on the credentials of those quoted; I'd say that's FOREVERLUCID - 1, Xei - O.

      Can you do any better than quoting Maddox, of all people, Xei?
      Yeah I wasn't really being entirely serious?

      But my point was of course that some bigwig may say something, but then there are always other just as bigwigs who will deny it. So quoting doesn't really get us anywhere.

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      Quote Originally Posted by FOREVERLUCID View Post
      "Some of it may have evolved. However, there's no doubt most of it is intentional. When you go in again into the history books and you realize just how long big meetings, world meetings in a sense have been held comprising of the wealthy families and their control over their countries. Mainly these families even in Europe are all related to each other, regardless of the countries they live in. They cornered every market including the educational market because they plan the society they want. They plan the next 100 years, 200 years. You don't keep power by leaving it to chance. You keep power by planning the future and altering the structure of society to make sure that you're always in charge of it."

      Quote by "Alan Watt"

      cuttingthroughthematrix.com
      You're on the right path, keep digging.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      But my point was of course that some bigwig may say something, but then there are always other just as bigwigs who will deny it. So quoting doesn't really get us anywhere.

      My point was that you can't adequately make that point, without at least providing a "just as bigwig." Your point remains insubstantial in this situation, because you haven't provided a reference to someone, that rivals Watt's credibility, whom denies the claims. Maddox simply doesn't qualify.

    8. #8
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      I wouldn't really know, I live in the UK and nobody ever even considers things like New World Orders over here, it just doesn't make much sense. I have a feeling it's just an American cultural thing, but I'm not an expert.

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      Argh. Whenever someone mentions Alan Watt it is usually in connection with total garbage and I wonder why in the hell a man that intelligent would say something like that. Only after a few seconds I will realize that the text was not about Alan Watts but Alan Watt and I expel a sigh of release. Alan Watt is a total dumbass.

    10. #10
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      Shit..you know what? I made the same mistake.

      I looked up the credentials of Allan Watts, not Allan Watt. Haha.

      I withdraw the previous posts from the court!

    11. #11
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      So the quote was the craps after all.

      But yeah, I dunno, is the whole NWO thing based in America? Because in Europe it just seems silly. There may be shady characters behind the scene but it's never really considered that there's a league of such people controlling the world. And all of the clues that people say points to their existence seem to be American; codes on dollar bills and such things. Why don't they ever bother with Euros if they're trying to take over the world? There's more than one continent...

      Just curious really.

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      You should all see how exaggerated these New World Order Conspiracies are on Youtube. It's bloody ridiculous. The next Pope could be Satan... or something.

    13. #13
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      What's really behind the European Union?
      [b]Tony Blair signed off the United Kingdom to the European Union. He signed the EU constitution in Rome before a massive bronze statue of Pope Innocent X. Tony Blair is Roman Catholic, his family is Roman Catholic, he is a Freemason (On video sharing an unmistakable Masonic handshake with Pope Benedict XVI), and he is a Knight of Malta. Cardinal Edward Egan, the Archbishop of New York, praised Blair as a "great and effective warrior".

      http://www.cephas-library.com/cathol...stify_war.html
      http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/kmlst1.htm
      http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2...malta-in-iraq/
      http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/fo...ndpost&p=44145
      http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/1014.html
      http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHI...howtopic=34371

      The fact that he signed the EU constitution in Rome before a statue of Pope Innocent X is a very big hint itself. A blatant hint of what is really behind this EU/NAU/AU globalist plot. Can you get the clue?

      Another hint is that Tony Blair's visit with the Pope was just after the European Summit. Can you get the clue?
      http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1a6_1182732755

      Another hint is that the EU flag shows 12 stars on a blue background in a circle. This is strikingly similar to the crown of Mary in Roman Catholic belief and the circle of stars around Roman Catholic pictures of Madonna. Arsene Heitz, the designer of the flag, is a devout Roman Catholic. The EU's flag is Roman Catholic, as is the man who designed it. Can you get the clue?


      http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/oeeurflg.htm

      And possibly the biggest hint of all.. The President of the European Commission, the President of the European Parliament, and the President of the European Council, the three men in charge of the EU, are all Roman Catholic.. and get this: All of their predecessors for these positions were Roman Catholic as well! The most powerful of them is the President of the European Commission, who is currently José Manuel Barroso. Barroso was Jesuit-trained at Georgetown University. Can you get the clue???
      http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barro...e/index_en.htm
      http://www.nndb.com/people/951/000024879/
      http://www.epp-ed.eu/Press/peve06/do...cv2-hgp-en.pdf
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_Borrell
      http://www.catholic.org/internationa...y.php?id=24022
      http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n18293722

      All of these clues together should be enough to wake you up to the fact that the Vatican is behind the European Union. It is the Vatican's goal to establish a New World Order and a one-world fascist global state.

      Parliament Protest

      MEPs Protest (The Original Video)



      The European Union's Roman Catholic leaders gathered in European Parliament to pass the "Charter of Fundamental Rights", which actually replaces the European Convention on Human Rights ("The Libson Treaty"). It had been rejected under a different name in 2005. Now it has been passed by deceptive means. Members of Parliament protested this outrageous legislation, but the protest was ignored, and even covered up. In the video, you can see that a man tries to block them from filming the protest. The Vatican-controlled EU would not want this protest to reach public view. The man blocking the camera was José Javier Pomés Ruiz, a member of parliament (and an EU agent). He was trained at a Roman Catholic, Opus Dei university.
      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/member...age=EN&id=1882
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Navarra

      The Bilderberg Group is well-connected to the creation of the EU and the European Movement, as many know. It should be of interest to you, then, that the Bilderberg Group was founded by Joseph Retinger, a member of the Committee of 300, a 33rd degree Freemason, and (surprise, surprise) a 'well-trained' Jesuit priest.
      http://www.fdrs.org/committee_of_300_structure.html

      The Vatican's links to this go way back.
      http://www.vaticanassassins.org/ledochowski.htm

    14. #14
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      As my history teacher once put it.

      The world is what it is today because a bunch of rich fucks wrote it down that way on a napkin in a bar while they were drunk.

      That is not a joke, either, he was serious, it's true. All decisions that affect our world are made in bars between drunk rich people, and they always have. That's where the real politics have always taken place.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      "New World Order conspiracies are a pile of bullshit".

      Quote by "George Ouzounian".

      THIS ONE'S FOR YOU SMARTY PANTHS!!


      September 17, 2008, 3:34 pm A New License, for More Than Just Driving

      By Jennifer 8. Lee

      The new high-tech enhanced driver’s license, which features an American flag icon, will allow people to cross over land and sea in lieu of using a passport. (Photo: New York State Department of Motor Vehicles)
      New York State on Tuesday began offering an “enhanced driver’s license,” one of a number of non-passport citizen travel documents that are making their way down bureaucratic government pipelines. While it looks and functions as a license for driving, only United States citizens can get the voluntary new license (or the non-driver equivalent), which means it can be used for land and sea crossings to Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean islands.

      It is also a high-tech card, equipped with a vicinity Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) chip that will broadcast a number to pull up biographic and biometric data for the border officer. (What is good for E-ZPass and Wal-Mart is good for people, too). “The same information that is in the front of the enhanced driver’s license document is in the database,” said Ken Brown, a spokesman for the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. They are also sending a sleeve out with the ID, he said. “What it does is prevent transmission of that secure number.”
      This is part of the function creep around driver’s licenses that some people have long been fearing. The push to make the a driver’s license a secure identity document, as opposed to simply a credential to drive, has caused protests among privacy advocates (and libertarians) who warn that the licenses are verging on becoming a de facto national ID. And numerous state governments have rebelled (in part because of cost) at federal standards for driver’s licenses issued by the Department of Homeland Security.

      At the same time, a number of border states have been leading the charge for voluntary high-tech driver’s licenses for other reasons — such as anxieties over how the border restrictions will cause economic drags and inconveniences. (According to New York State statistics, Canadians make 2.5 million visits to New York State annually, spending $679 million, while New York residents make 1.7 million visits to Canada, spending $561 million.)
      For many years, Canadians and American citizens were exempt from presenting a passport or other secure document to cross the world’s longest nonmilitarized border — 5,526 miles over land and water. The Homeland Security Department said that border officers reported more than 1,500 cases of people falsely claiming to be American citizens between October and December 2007. Under pressure to tighten border security, the United States set a deadline of January 2008, after which a traveler would have to present a passport in crossing back over land to the United States from Canada and Mexico, among other places. The requirement overwhelmed the American passport system with applications in a country where only 24 percent of the people originally had passports. The deadline was then pushed back to January 2009.
      The compromise has been identification cards that essentially prove citizenship, things that have not historically existed in the United States, despite being widely used in other countries like China, Thailand, Malaysia and Russia.
      Washington State, which experiences a lot of cross-border traffic with British Columbia, was the first state to offer the enhanced driver’s license in January. Other border states are working with the Department of Homeland Security, including Michigan, Vermont, Arizona, California and Texas. (In contrast, Maine has led the charge among states protesting the federal standards.)
      And even Americans who do not live in one of the border states may soon be able to obtain a passport card from the State Department (note how the guy’s name is “Happy Traveler”), a passport in card form that fills a demand by Americans for a less cumbersome citizen document to cross borders. There are also a number of trusted traveler’s identification cards that allow border clearance for low-risk, preapproved travelers between Canada and the United States whether by air, land or

      http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-just-driving/

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      I wouldn't really know, I live in the UK and nobody ever even considers things like New World Orders over here, it just doesn't make much sense. I have a feeling it's just an American cultural thing, but I'm not an expert.


      ANY YET ANOTHER ONE FOR YA GENIUS!!


      The Resurgent Idea of World Government [Full Text]
      Ethics & International Affairs, Volume 22.2 (Summer 2008)
      Campbell Craig

      July 7, 2008
      The idea of world government is returning to the mainstream of scholarly thinking about international relations. Universities in North America and Europe now routinely advertise for positions in "global governance," a term that few would have heard of a decade ago. Chapters on cosmopolitanism and governance appear in many current international relations (IR) textbooks. Leading scholars are wrestling with the topic, including Alexander Wendt, perhaps now America's most influential IR theorist, who has recently suggested that a world government is simply "inevitable."1 While some scholars envision a more formal world state, and others argue for a much looser system of "global governance," it is probably safe to say that the growing number of works on this topic can be grouped together into the broader category of "world government"—a school of thought that supports the creation of international authority (or authorities) that can tackle the global problems that nation-states currently cannot.

      It is not, of course, a new idea. Dreaming of a world without war, or of government without tyranny, idealists have advocated some kind of world or universal state since the classical period. The Italian poet Dante viewed world government as a kind of utopia. The Dutch scholar Hugo Grotius, often regarded as the founder of international law, believed in the eventual formation of a world government to enforce it. The notion interested many visionary thinkers in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, including H. G. Wells and Aldous Huxley. In 1942 the one-time Republican presidential candidate Wendell Willkie published a famous book on the topic, One World. And after the Second World War, the specter of atomic war moved many prominent American scholars and activists, including Albert Einstein, the University of Chicago president Robert Hutchins, and the columnist Dorothy Thompson, to advocate an immediate world state—not so much out of idealistic dreams but because only such a state, they believed, could prevent a third world war fought with the weapons that had just obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The campaign continued until as late as 1950, when the popular magazine Reader's Digest serialized a book by the world-government advocate Emery Reves, while at the same time the Senate Subcommittee on Foreign Relations was considering several motions to urge the Truman administration to adopt a policy of world federalism.2 In fact, to this day the World Federalist Movement—an international NGO founded in 1947 and recognized by the United Nations—boasts a membership of 30,000 to 50,000 worldwide.

      By the 1950s, however, serious talk of world government had largely disappeared. The failure of the Baruch Plan to establish international control over atomic weaponry in late 1946 signaled its demise, for it cleared the way (as the plan’s authors quietly intended) for the United States and the Soviet Union to continue apace with their respective atomic projects. What state would place its trust in a world government when there were sovereign nations that possessed, or could soon possess, atomic bombs?3


      http://www.cceia.org/resources/journ...essay/001.html

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneironaut View Post
      Shit..you know what? I made the same mistake.

      I looked up the credentials of Allan Watts, not Allan Watt. Haha.

      I withdraw the previous posts from the court!


      I WONDER WHAT WATTS WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS ONE!!:

      "FROM SLIME TO DIVINE–
      DARWIN'S REPACKAGED RELIGION AND THE NEW AGE"
      March 6, 2008


      We tend to see the effects of alterations within culture as they're happening, as we are living through the initial effects, the visible effects, yet we don't realize that no part of a change in culture happens spontaneously. It can take 40, 50, 100 years to implement the initial changes of perception within cultures so that it will manifest down the road. It's no secret there's been a war on the world for a long time, a very old war in fact. You can trace it back thousands of years if you go back into the various sects and fraternities that existed and proliferated from Egypt and no doubt from Babylon itself and Greece, because the philosophers who trained primarily in Egypt, the ones that we know of, I've no doubt there's ones before who were trained in Sumeria in fact before that, but no records left that we have access to. However, the Egyptian ones, at least the ones who went to Egypt did leave records and they became the great philosophers and they were aristocracy of Greece. They were the crème de la crème who were sent off for these educations and came back generally starting off their own schools and they would then start to implement very slowly, in their own time too, differences in thinking, of viewing things, perceptions changes, by either adding knowledge. Adding knowledge sounds very good until you think, wait a minute, to add knowledge you must have all the knowledge on a particular subject. The trick is to give selected knowledge and then your audience will come to preordained conclusions. It's still the same today.

      The perennial philosophy or religion, as it's sometimes called, is a form of nature worship. It's the central core of Hinduism. It's the central core of reincarnation and all of the various things that spawn from the idea of "we're all one," the universal consciousness, as it's been taught again openly since the '60's and it's been taught in selected classes prior to 1960's through various agencies which were masonically associated such as theosophy.

      Yet, if you go back to the neo-platonists in Alexandria, you'll find they took the ideas from Plato the idea of the Hegelian argument, because it preexisted Hegel, where you would have conversations, imaginary conversations with imaginary friends or students and put it in a book form with a question-answer type scenario and you would lead someone through a form of logic. The idea being to guide your audience as they read it, or have it read to them, you would guide them to a particular form of reasoning, which again you had preordained, and this was a very old technique which is used even today very successfully.

      However, the ancient Greeks talked profusely about matter; and I used to wonder why on earth would even a leisure class living high off the hog, off the public, and that's where you get leisure classes. In fact "school," the Greek word it comes from, really means leisure. You had to have leisure to go to school and schools back in Greece were not compulsory in ancient times, but those with nothing much to do and plenty of money, sons and daughters of the aristocracy, at least the daughters eventually with Pythagoras, were allowed to participate and listen. They talked about matter.

      Now why on earth would these characters who didn't have anything beyond the sailing ship, and the horse and cart, or the donkey, why would they be talking about matter and what matter was made up of?

      Because they knew back then that apart from perceptions itself and even how your senses perceive things and how your brain analyzes them, they knew a table from the end seems narrower the further away it goes but in reality we know it does not narrow. It's your perceptions. They understood how to distort perceptions as well when you use the analogy and put it into certain forms of speech. You could also shape the forms of conclusions that people would come to if you understand how logic works in people.

      They also talked this matter and they had atomists associations that literally talked about the atom, long before we're told there were atomic microscopes or anything else. They were talking about the atom and they knew that the hardest object was comprised of something spinning around something and that technically it really wasn't so solid in a different sphere or "dimension," if you like, and this was talked about and they had schools on it back in those days. They were not going ahead to give us aircraft or inventions you think that would be of necessity for them. No, they were talking about stuff to do with atoms and the basic forms of matter and life. However, when they married Plato's dialectic process with the mystery religions – the mystery religions are no different than they are today because back then there was a plethora of beliefs often called Gnostic beliefs and nothing to do with the new Gnostics that are out these days, but they married them with the mystery religions.

      The mystery religions always centering around special people, Special people who were evolved more than other people and this is not – you have to understand that Plato himself before that, before the neo-Platonist schools in Alexandria, Plato himself had discussed the fact that he believed that the reason that he and his own class of aristocracy ruled and why they knew so much and why they would understand mathematics and so on as it was given to them is because they'd lived before. Reincarnation is a very old idea. It appeals tremendously to vanity and it goes to absurdity of course because you meet thousands of Cleopatras and I always tell each one that tells me she was Cleopatra, it must have been awfully crowded in there. It appeals to the ego. You never find Cleopatra's chambermaid, the one that carries the potty, you don't hear anyone saying that. It's an egotistical thing but it was believed again thousands of years ago by those who ruled.

      When this is given to people in a modern age, the same philosophies, it's for a different purpose because that which was one time kept for the elite themselves to chat about over a fire as they were served their brandies has now been given to the public, because the public now must also be part of this hidden need contained within the religions to change. It's a changed which has already been planned for the whole world and humanity itself.



    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      You should all see how exaggerated these New World Order Conspiracies are on Youtube. It's bloody ridiculous. The next Pope could be Satan... or something.

      THIS ONE'S FOR YOU OSTRICH:

      Hurricane Ike news blackout on dead bodies Bolivar Crystal B


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge0dxJfxsa8

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      EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SOON


      By Rosalind Peterson
      November 2, 2007
      NewsWithViews.com

      Prepare yourself for more water shortages, floods, droughts, and a sharp decline in food supplies in the United States when U.S. Senate Bill 1807 & U.S. House Bill 3445, that were introduced on July 17, 2007, are voted into law. These identical bills, titled: “Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2007”, are moving forward at a rapid rate in Committees on Commerce, Science and Transportation. Please note that these bills were not referred to Committees on Agriculture, Natural Resources, the Environmental Protection Agency, or Forestry, and that you were not invited to debate the merits of these bills by your elected representatives.

      “It is the purpose of this act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather mitigation policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather mitigation and research.” The Board of Directors will be comprised of eleven members and only one member shall be a representative of the Department of Agriculture. There are no members of the public to be appointed to this Board, no EPA representatives, no Natural Resources or Forestry representatives, and there are no provisions for county, state, public, or agricultural oversight of these programs prior to implementation.

      Experimental Weather Modification (or “mitigation” which is not defined in these bills), can affect all of us by reducing water supplies and changing agricultural crop production cycles (micro-climates), while reducing crop production and water availability. Since most experimental weather modification programs use chemicals released into the atmosphere the public could be subjected to increasingly toxic or unknown substances that could have negative effects on agricultural, drinking water supplies, crops, and trees. If the weather is changed in one location it may have severe adverse consequences in another region, county or state. And who is going to decide the type of weather modification experimentation, who it will benefit, and who will suffer the negative consequences of these actions? And will one state or region “steals” the rain or snow that would normally go to another state by using these “weather modification schemes” as is happening from current weather modification programs?

      Many current and ongoing weather modification programs (50+ listed by NOAA each year-note the ones listed in this bill), are already changing the climate in many regions of the United States. Since most Americans have not been made aware of these programs it is easy to blame severe climate disturbances on “global warming theories” or climate change. These events are causing an overwhelming urge to “mitigate” current weather problems with increased weather modification experimentation, instead of examining local micro-climate changes that are caused by current and ongoing programs. It would be easier to stop these experimental programs than to add new programs without a clear understanding of current and future synergistic effects.

      Senate Bill 1807 does not address these issues but intends to implement more experimental weather modification programs without a national debate or public oversight. Terry Krauss, Project Manager for North Dakota based Weather Modification, Inc., owns a large fleet of aircraft and conducts cloud seeding projects in more than a dozen countries around the world. Many private companies, universities, and government agencies modify the weather in the United States, and in other countries. These programs could clearly be negatively affecting the weather in the United States and exacerbating global climate change.

      The December 2005 Popular Science Magazine discussed a plan to use an oil slick to stop hurricanes without noting the adverse environmental impacts of the oil used to cover the ocean. Popular Science also noted that a private company, Dyn-O-Mat had been conducting “…early trials. In July 2001, Dyn-O-Mat engineers dumped 8,000 pounds of their Dyn-O-Mat Gel (capable of absorbing 4,000 tons of water), over a small thunderstorm near the Florida coast. Within minutes the storm disappeared from Doppler weather radar…” When this toxic secret chemical drops into the ocean or over land what are the environmental effects? Who is studying what happens to marine life, crops, soils, and drinking water supplies when this chemical mixes with rainfall on the ground?

      According to Popular Science “…Dyn-O-Mat’s founder and CEO, has already arranged to lease a specially rigged 747 “supertanker” to conduct trials on actual hurricanes. Meanwhile, he has assembled an all-star team of scientists and labs at Florida State University, the National Center for Atmospheric Research, NOAA, and elsewhere to begin running computer models that analyze the gel’s effect on larger storms…’We already know the gel works’, says Cordani…’Now we need to figure out how much to use and where to put it’…” Could hurricane and other experiments be causing drought in Georgia and other states in 2007? Since the public is not informed, and Congress has no oversight powers, the public is being kept in the dark about dates and results of these experiments leaving many unanswered questions.

      Alaska and other areas across the United States are beginning to feel the impacts of climate change. Enormous changes are being seen in the declining health of native plant and tree communities in many areas across. Climate shifts are being recorded everywhere. In the last few years abnormal rainfall and droughts have been occurring on a more dramatic basis and few are asking questions about current and ongoing experimental weather modification programs that may be exacerbating these problems.

      The answer seems to be that these bills will just be passed to “mitigate” (no definition of this word in the bill), current problems. If we are creating these problems with current weather modification endeavors then how can we correct this problem by adding more programs? Wouldn’t it be better to account for all of the experimental weather modification programs, and atmospheric heating and testing programs, and study their synergistic effects, affects on trees, micro-climates, and agriculture before deciding to implement more experimental weather modification programs? If these programs change growing seasons, disrupt photosynthesis, and interrupt the pollination process, crop losses could be substantial, exacerbating economic agriculture instability.

      A Weather Damage Modification Program conducted by the Bureau of Reclamation, according to this bill, does not evaluate the negative impacts to agriculture, water supplies, or micro-climates in counties or states surrounding experimental weather modification programs. Thus, their models are flawed. U.S. Senate Bill 1807, Section 4 – Definition (3) declares that “…investigative findings and theories of a scientific or technical nature…” will be turned into “…practical applications for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, material and processes”. Does this include toxic chemicals or atmospheric heating and testing experiment chemicals?”

      NASA noted in an October 2005 newsletter that increasingly persistent contrails forming man-made clouds and haze are “…trapping warmth in the atmosphere and exacerbating global warming…” NASA goes on to note that: “…Any increase in global cloud cover will contribute to long-term changes in Earth’s climate. Likewise, any change in Earth’s climate may have effects on natural resources…” U.S. Senate Bill 1807 does not address this issue or issues regarding Global Dimming (NOVA PBS 2006), or consider them in any models. Thus, the bill has built-in flaws.

      Weather modification companies, private corporations, scientists, and universities are lobbying hard for this bill to pass because they see our tax dollars going to them for these projects until at least the year 2017, prescribed in this bill. No doubt amendments will be submitted by private corporations to elected officials as part of their Congressional lobbying efforts. The public is not invited to attend or be represented in any manner.

      Priorities in the bill are funding, training and support for scientists, participation in international efforts, and research and development. Note that research related to potential adverse affects of weather mitigation is also in this bill but the bill does not specify agriculture, micro-climate damage, crop losses, drought or flood inducement, or chemical toxicity from these types of experimental weather modification programs. Our micro-climates and food production (the livelihoods of thousands of people who are in the agriculture business) are to be used as guinea pigs without warming, prior notification, public oversight or input. And if crops our damaged, our grasslands in drought or floods, who is responsible for these disasters when they are man-made by experimental weather modification (mitigation), programs? The agriculture industry will suffer staggering losses and food prices will skyrocket due to these losses, food shortages will increase…while we import more and more contaminated food from countries like China. This bill does not protect the public.

      The bill will require a description of “…any potential adverse consequences on life, property, or water resource availability form weather mitigation efforts, and any suggested means of mitigation or reducing such consequences if such efforts are undertaken…” However, we have over sixty-six current and ongoing programs, why won’t they be assessed first to address environmental and agriculture problems well in advance of any additional experiments? The bill does not state that any public hearings will be held in advance of any experiments or that the public will be notified when these programs are to take place or what means of mitigation for adverse consequences will be in place. In addition, this bill does not address compensation for losses due to this experimentation.

      Since the first report on this bill is not due until January 31st, in the second calendar year following the date of the enactment of this Act, but if passed, this plan will be implemented not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. This means a huge gap where no public oversight, congressional oversight, public debate and hearings, or any other method of oversight will be required. And with the public excluded from any participation to protect water, agriculture, forest, natural resources, and other public interests from questionable experiments, the programs will be implemented without proper protection for these interests.

      Atmospheric experiments, the Alaska H.A.A.R.P. program, military experiments on weather modification, like those being undertaken at Elgin Air Force Base, and elsewhere, are not listed as being part of this bill. In 2004, The Science Channel, for a special television program titled “Owing the Weather”, conducted an interview with J. Gregory Glenn, a Research Scientist at Elgin Air Force Base in Florida, where “…Air Force weapons researchers and nano particles specialists are conducting weather control experiments…” Thus, the public will be subject to these experiments with no Congressional or public oversight. And your local insurance company and other private corporations will continue “mitigating” for private profit at your expense.

      We know today, and most weather modification companies, will tell you, that weather modification works. They can’t always control the results but we do know they work or may have unintended consequences or have been used in other ways. In the 2004, Science Channel Program “Owning the Weather”, are the following statements on “Project Popeye”: “…Though they had denied it for more than seven years (until Seymour Hersh of the New York Times broke the story), the U.S. Military had been using weather modification as a weapon in Vietnam and Laos. Starting in 1966, the United States Air Force had made over 2,600 top-secret cloud seeding flights. Codenamed “Project Popeye”, this clandestine operation attempted to turn key enemy transport roads to mud, rendering them impassable…As a result of the uproar over Project Popeye, on the 10th of December 1976, the United Nations passed General Assembly Resolution 3172. It explicitly banned the use of weather modification in warfare…” Other U.S. hurricane clouds seeding projects have also been classified, until years later, due to the devastating results of these experiments and fear of lawsuits.

      Now, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (Texas), and Congressman Mark Udall (Colorado), have reintroduced similar bills for passage this year. Once again it is time to act to protect our natural resources, our soil, water, agricultural micro-climates, and crops from unknown types weather modification experimentation. In addition, they have ignored addressing issues raised in a December 13, 2005, letter to Senator Hutchison from John H. Marburger III, Director, Office of Science and Technology Policy, Washington, D.C. which states in part: “…there is a host of issues—including liability, foreign policy, and national security concerns---that arose in the past and should be adequately considered before the U.S. government undertakes the coordinated national research program this legislation would require…” These include but are not limited to “…Department of Justice on legal issues, with the Department of State on foreign policy implications, with the Department of Defense and State on national security implications, and with pertinent research agencies to consider the reasons the U.S. Government previously halted its work in this area…”

      Mr. Marburger’s letter went on to define some local, political and legal ramifications, national Security Implications, and Research issues which included: 1) Weather modification may promote rain in one area to the detriment of another; 2) These legal and liability issues pertaining to weather modification (now mitigation), and the potential adverse consequences on life, property, and water resource availability resulting from weather modification activities, must be considered fully before the U.S. government could take responsibility for this new research program: 3) Given Global weather patterns, whether one country “owns” its weather so as to assert intra-border control with extra-border consequences, must be considered under present international conventions…”



      Senator Hutchison and Congressman Udall did not address any to these issues in the text of their legislation. Thus, it is believed that they both ignored the issues not only brought forward by the public but by the Office of Science and Technology. Also missing from this bill are references to various U.S. Patents that discuss weather modification methods through the use of atmospheric chemicals, ionospheric modification and testing, how satellites can be used to change the weather, and space based weather modification satellites. The range of patents and geoengineering schemes to modify the weather are staggering in number and scope. And this bill does not address any of these issues or the myriad of geoengineering schemes now in use or proposed for the future that will modify our weather.



      Please contact all of your elected local, state and federal officials to stop this bill in its present form. This bill needs to have appropriate agriculture and public oversight, with public hearings included, prior to any more experimental projects. We need a national dialogue on this subject before more experimentation takes place. Concerned grassroots citizens are involved in this educational protest movement to protect agriculture from unwise experimental weather modification programs. “We, the people, simply will not accept this reckless experimenting on our weather and are fighting the passage of this bill in order to protect agricultural crop production and our water supplies.”

      Associated Reference Articles:

      1, "Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act," U.S. House Bill 3345 Full Text: U.S. Senate Bill 1807 Full Text:
      2, Other Related Articles:
      3, NOAA Project StormFury 20-Year History:
      4, www.asp.bnl.gov/
      5, Scientists Excited for Wyoming Cloud-Seeding
      6, Contrail ID Chart, pdf
      7, Weather Modification, Inc. Home page, Atmospheric Research, Aircraft Modification, and Cloud Seeding Website: (WMI February 2007 Discovery Channel Program: Krauss: "…The demands for fresh water are increasing. People think nothing of drilling wells and extracting ground water. Well, now we are trying to use modern technology to extract water that goes unused in this river of water vapor that is passing over us each second of the day. A lot of people don't realize that California has been conducting wintertime cloud seeding for almost fifty years to supply the increasing demand for water (and power) in California…" Krauss speaks WMI just using unused water vapor. However, that water vapor would have a final destination as rain or snow somewhere else, in another county or state, if not artificially interfered with by chemicals. When you deliberately put more snow in the Wyoming mountains (December 2005-February 2006), you deprive another area of the rain or moisture that would normally fall in other areas. Thus, more snow in the Wyoming mountains may cause drought in surrounding counties or states. What legal right do we have to modify the weather and deprive other areas of that so-called "unused water vapor" that could alleviate droughts or keep our agriculture micro-climates intact? (Also note that weather modification companies have a financial investment in promoting experimental weather modification programs and would see nothing wrong with implementing those programs.)
      8, NOVA "Dimming the Sun" April 2006, and [Read]
      9, Global Dimming:
      10, November 20, 2006: "NASA plans to block out the Sun"
      11, May 3, 2006: "Blocking Out the Sun" Peterson - Could the H.A.A.R.P. Project in Alaska, NOAA, DOE, NASA, Air Force, Department of Defense, etc., be the reason for climate changes that have been escalating since the late 1980s, when the funds and technology allowed for the escalation of atmospheric heating and testing programs like NASA's TMA Night Cloud tests using trimethylaluminum or the advanced testing of military weapons systems like star wars?
      12, Night Clouds Atmospheric Testing Program:
      13, U.S. Weather Modification Patents & Weather Modification Method:
      14, Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth's weather-1998:
      15, Weather modification by artificial satellites 1999
      16, Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process 1977
      17, Method and composition for precipitation of atmospheric water 1994
      18, Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere 1987, * Bridget Conroy, from Arizona, and Rosalind Peterson, from California, are co-founders of the Agriculture Defense Coalition. They joined together in October 2005, to fight a similar experimental weather modification bill that was introduced in 2005. Thanks to their dedication and hard work in bringing this to the public's attention, organizing rallies, with lots of help from local individuals and groups in several states, many people across the United States contacted their elected representatives, and these bills were not passed in 2006. They have mobilized again to fight this new threat to agriculture and natural resources. Contacts. [Read] [Read]

      © 2007 Rosalind Peterson - All Rights Reserved

    20. #20
      - Neruo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      You should all see how exaggerated these New World Order Conspiracies are on Youtube. It's bloody ridiculous. The next Pope could be Satan... or something.
      Exactly. Now use this insight to reflect in a similar on your own theories that are exaggerated and bloody ridiculous.

      -

      Anyhow. Seriously, I find these new-word-order people really silly. They really want to believe in some kind of clear and identifiable evil force. Makes life easy, to think that I guess. You don't have to make your own decisions, 'teh goffernzments kuntrols uz all anyhows!11!' . It's all pretty silly. Sure, some of the top politicians and bussinessmen in America might play golf together, and help eachother to get into nice posotions and make each other as rich as possible. That doesn't mean they want to exterminate the poor, or whatever. Actually, they are doing fine as it is now. They have what they want. Only idiots would want 'world domination' if you already have all the money you want. A totalitarian state doesn't provide them any more money or power.

      I advice all the new-world-order idiots to go and live in a cave somewhere in alaska, if they are so afraid of the government. An added bonus would be that you can't anoy the rest of the world.
      “What a peculiar privilege has this little agitation of the brain which we call 'thought'” -Hume

    21. #21
      ex-redhat Achievements:
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      If it's truth, where on earth did the idea to put it in philosophy come from?
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

    22. #22
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      I like to believe in conspiracies, the new age, the supernatural, the religious, because it makes my life feel much more meaningful, and it makes me feel like i have some point to it. Even if the things would have negative connotations, i still want to believe, because it comforts me to know there is something deeper and more than me, negative or not. Nothing is worse than the cold pointlessness i felt when i didn't believe in all these things. Now I think that I have a reason to do stuff, and I am really part of something! I know the truth and the others don't! I'm special at last.. I've discovered it, its like a secret, but i know, and you don't, because i have meaning and quest. Hey i'm like a main character in a movie, or a book! If we work together we can fight the battle against that evil! Yeah. I'm special.. i know the truth.. the secret.. there is a reason.. a point.. im not cold any more, i'm speciall.Me. Can you see me now mom?


      can.. you?


      see me




      now?









      I'm in control! I have a purpose..


      PLease..


      I have a purpose..



      I don't want to feel cold again..
      Last edited by Carôusoul; 09-21-2008 at 12:40 PM.

    23. #23
      Xei
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      ^ truth.

      You are all mediocre and ordinary and will achieve no great deeds and are cosmologically completely unimportant. Sorry.

      Also, somebody ban the complete raving cock that is Foreverlucid, please? I don't think they're going to fit in well here.

    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Neruo View Post
      Exactly. Now use this insight to reflect in a similar on your own theories that are exaggerated and bloody ridiculous.
      I would not think the same way today, in the way I have expressed above. And there is no reason to mix contexts, this merely brings more suffering and confusion.

    25. #25
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      The reason why groups in power take abuse of their power is because of the human nature we create! We all say greed is normal! Money is important! We all have the same mindset, so if anyone of us gets power, he will inevitably turn into a person who will choose money above anything else. So if you want to change the people in power, first start by changing yourself. Your actions, thoughts and behaviors will be eventually automatically copied by your fellow human beings. And your fellow human beings, or maybe even you might be one of the next persons in power. So basicly, the greed you display directly affects future people in power.
      It has been usual for men to think and to say, "Many men are slaves
      because one is an oppressor; let us hate the oppressor." Now,
      however, there is amongst an increasing few a tendency to reverse
      this judgment, and to say, "One man is an oppressor because many are
      slaves; let us despise the slaves."
      "Reject common sense to make the impossible possible." -Kamina

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