Thread: Who or what is God to you?

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

The bible can hardly be followed anyways. It's basically just a pick and mix but with ideologies.

I'll leave this here for anyone interested Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon
I'm not a fan of anti-theism, but this website finds some extremely contradictory paragraphs in the bible.

For instance, how did Judas die? Did he hang himself, or did he explode!?!?!

How did Judas die?

But this is also a fun one: The Brick Testament

well, according to catholic bible he hang himself out of self resentment...
They didn't invent explosives, they didn't know what it means to explode infidels or sinner . Sorry I couldn't stop myself

Sageous,

I think you took what I said too personally. If you were a Christian academic, then I'd think it would be important to you to know what the Bible says or doesn't say about eternal life, since the concept is so central to Christian theology. But you didn't invest your life's effort in interpreting and supporting Christian doctrine, so I don't see the issue.

As far as defending the intellectual honor of other Christians....These are the same people who categorize my gods as evil spirits, and who teach that I am damned and am seducing other people to damnation. If they find my view of them to be offensive, that's a farce, they dish out ten times what they have to take from me. Of course there are individual Christians who are thoughtful and open minded. I'm talking about Christian theology in bulk. There just isn't any way to parse it that upholds the core teaching of John 3:16, as promulgated by Paul, and doesn't at least implicitly depend on the damnation of people like myself or yourself who reject that teaching.

To me it's not about 'winning', it's about progress. If what I said was wrong or irrelevant, that's another matter. It is relevant to me because my faith in God, such as it is, is not coupled to a hope for an afterlife. And historically that has been true for a lot of other people also. That doesn't necessarily undermine the essential point of your post, which is to suggest that God is largely a human concept. But it is relevant to better explaining who God is to me, which is something I hope to get to. I think that a person who metaphorically has an experience like Jonah's believes in God. It's direct, personally real, and not a matter of yearning for immortality.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Something like archetypes then? Ok, that makes perfect sense. I suppose believing in a god would activate an archetype or a group of them. An archetype is very real and very powerful, much more so than mere personal thoughts, but only at certain times - usually times of crisis or some powerful emotion. It's like a complex, like a persecution complex for instance. Real or imaginary? Well, it's actually just as real as any other thoughts in the person's head and more powerful than them because it comes from deeper and directs thought and emotion.

I don't know much about archetypes, but yes they would be related. A point I would like to emphasize is that the god has actual life and will and intelligence and power, including supernatural power. It does not act merely by influencing human thought and behavior, it can act in the world directly. Though the human mind is an important part of how it acts, and I do not know if it can exist without the activity of human minds. If there is a dependence on human thinking it is not strictly temporal though, the god can reach beyond the lifetimes of his people.

I really don't have an overreaching theory about how any of this works, I'm just describing what I think must be true based on what I have experienced. The gods that I have some direct awareness of are a lot smaller and weaker than the more universal ones that I vaguely sense acting through them. It's like a big fractal of spiritual identity. The 'big' gods don't necessarily exercise power in ways we would easily recognize. The're more like intelligent gravity, almost undetectable when dealing with small, individual objects, but producing big results through an accumulation of subtle effects. They don't talk to us in human ways more than they do because it would give us the wrong idea. We'd make an idol out of an image of the experience. Is there a single unified God running through it all? I guess there must be, but I try to keep my mind free of hard beliefs in things beyond what I consciously deal with, so that I don't close myself to discovering more.

In regards to the meditative "who am I" question, which I think is relevant to relationship with God, I think that for now I am the one who must deal with my human experience. As I finish that, I'm stages, then the scope of who I am may change accordingly. But it is important for the scope my awareness to be appropriate for my responsibilities. It is paralyzing if I am aware to too little or too much. This is a large reason for ignorance about God I think. We can't process too many messages at once, and in various ways we're all struggling to face ourselves.

I agree with Sageous about how man invented religion and god when he gained self awareness. It's more preferable also to think that death isn't the end. Whatever the religion and it's elements, it all stems from this.

So I'm an athiest and a nihilist, but I like to follow happiness as a goal in life (happiness is the best thing in the world! )

Religions are not what they supposed to be. It changed over time. And who cares. Religion is all about convergence group of people. Differentiation from another group. And when you are part of a large group of believe system, you're simply controlable by this group's believe system to make violence or peace or what ever it's required. All this has roots in evolution of ''us''.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

So I'm an athiest and a nihilist, but I like to follow happiness as a goal in life (happiness is the best thing in the world! )

You know, I don't think that happiness is goal in life. It's just a marker whether you are doing right things or wrong things and as well it has roots in evolution of life.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Whatever the religion and it's elements, it all stems from this.

Taoism, and Chinese folk religion in general, also does not involve thinking that death isn't the end. But most Chinese folk religion does involve faith in gods.

Originally Posted by Nfri

You know, I don't think that happiness is goal in life. It's just a marker whether you are doing right things or wrong things and as well it has roots in evolution of life.

As a nihilist there is an acknowledgment of the lack of inherent meaning to life. That is, all meaning and purpose is regarded as a purely human concept and is essentially indifferent within the greater scheme of events.
This does not imply you do not have any meaning to life, there are multiple trails of thought after this that are mostly regarded as equal no matter which you choose. Some argue that any meaning to life should revolve around experience, others note that we should make the most out the positive emotions evolution has provided us.

As Louai pointed out, he chooses to follow happiness as a goal because it's a wonderful feeling. Without a true objective purpose, the next best thing he probably considers is living life as happy as possible.

I follow a similar thought because there's almost no right's or wrongs. We can all agree that a human can make up his own goals based on what he feels best suits him.

Originally Posted by Nfri

You know, I don't think that happiness is goal in life. It's just a marker whether you are doing right things or wrong things and as well it has roots in evolution of life.

I agree with this. Happiness follows the pursuit of an enlightened goal, and helps keep us on the path, but eventually fails as a goal unto itself without some other element. Pure pursuit of happiness would be like flying in fog without an attitude indicator.

The big g God is probably like the Force; its an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together . Quoted by a wise man and not by myself.

But really, I think God would be the stereotypical omnipresent being that is everything all at once, kind of thing. But what is "being", and why do we place meaning on something being there such as "God"? I don't go as far as nihilism (although I don't know much about it) but its a mystery to me either way. In a way it seems more practical to pursue things like happiness or whatever goals that are worthwhile and personable, even if they are not a means to an end. Kind of like what Dutchraptor is saying. "God" seems to step in and gain more meaning in discussions like this because it brings things like religions and ideologies, and lifestyles into the mix.

I see that a lot of you bring up points that I also feel are true. I think every civilization and culture has a "Creation Myth" and some of those are more scientifically accurate than others. I also feel that the God spoken of in the Christian Bible and of Judea, is and has been a control mechanism for a few to control the masses.
I think what some call God is in fact the power of the universe. Energy, creation, life, and death are all parts of the world we live in and we still struggle to understand so much of the world around us. God to me is not a magic man in the heavens, God is the "process" of everything in the natural world. Everyone has moments of clarity or a moment of divine grace that leaves them feeling like they have experienced something unworldly. Some call it God or Divine intervention, what ever, but I feel that whether you are religious or not, you are still capable of experiencing extraordinary moments in life. So called Miracles if you will happen to believers and non believers alike.
I also feel, as someone else said...(sorry, I dont know how to use quotes properly on this site)... that God is in the eye of the beholder. It could be a special day or event that gives one a feeling of being in the presence of something profound or a child's birth, a puppy or kitten, a recovery from terminal cancer etc. What ever God is, to me it is not some all knowing man in the heavens that looks down on us all. God may be all knowing, as the process of creation itself is. But how can you pray to the energy of the universe and expect an answer. it is the meditation on the prayer or question that leads us to our answers, not the whim of a so called God.
I guess I'm rambling, but I liked reading everyone's take on this topic.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I agree with this. Happiness follows the pursuit of an enlightened goal, and helps keep us on the path, but eventually fails as a goal unto itself without some other element. Pure pursuit of happiness would be like flying in fog without an attitude indicator.

I persuite these "enlightenment goals" which I described how I think they are classified above. Persuing them equals happiness. So if you think that these goals are our goals in life, you are right, they are, but I follow them for the halla of it! In the end, it IS our motivation for happiness that fulfilled these goals ! (Sneaky mind, knows how to manipulate us to advance it's race ōvō )

* Moved to R/S

If this was truly a Religious thread, I would have put it here myself.

a character created to control the majority by giving them false hope.

God to me is: a three-letter word that seems unusually tricky to define.

Spoiler for "big long thing:

Like the word love, god is a complex and evolving concept disguised as a tiny word that people use under the misguided assumption that everyone will interpret it the same way they do. It's a bit of a throwaway word really, like plant. It describes a thing super vaguely instead of specifically the thing in question.

It's no wonder people love to argue about it, really.

Ideas about what god is or isn't can be either essential to a person's worldview, or completely irrelevant to it. In either case, such strong beliefs are things we us to define ourselves. And to some people, opposition to one's beliefs or view of the world is seen as a threat.

But why? Is variance not practically inevitable when dealing with a word so ambiguous?
I think instead of trying to nail down a definition, people would be either completely uninterested, or if not at least open to the idea that a god concept can be many different things, some they may not have considered.

I think that's why so many are religious (in a sense) about science instead of god. It is something that can be verified to the point where a person can feel sure about it....sure that their worldview is as accurate as possible by means of an agreed upon process...it's all very sterile and unfeeling.

But hey, it's factual so it's got that going for it.

I think beliefs (or even ideas or notions) about the existence or non-existance of god can say a lot about a person and how they experience the world. I find though that very narrow interpretations of the word can be less descriptive or insightful in this way.

At this point in my life I would say, hesitantly, that any god I could believe in would be a kind of incomprehensible intangible kind. Not supernatural or anything, just invisible.

Like air. Or truth. These are words things humans essentially made up to describe concepts to other humans. Words like life and love and truth are similar I think. Joy even, sadness even.

They exist only as we perceive them.

I see god as maybe... whatever stuff the universe it made of that causes it to do what it do baby. When I pray I am essentially giving thanks to the universe for existing, so maybe my idea of god is the universe itself.

I don't feel I have to call it god usually, but if I were to make associations with the word this is more or less what comes to mind.


That and the way the film Dogma portrays God. What a reality that would be.

Completly off topic, but am I the only person who finds it ironic that only athiests/non believers visit the religion thread regularly? XD

Call it what ever you like. Just know this....

I originally posted this in Beyond Dreaming but someone just moved it here.

So back on topic HeWhoShapes....Who or What is GOD to YOU?

"Who or 'What' is GOD to you ?"

Humanity - collectively not individually

We are the culmination of 13.7 billion years anti-entropic cosmic evolution; not to be mistaken or construed as some form of existential purpose, however the recognition of our potential significance. I must state that due to the lack of evidence of other intelligent forms of life within the universe; I do not believe it would be incredibly presumptuous of me to postulate our sole existence as sentient beings.

Imagine if this is the case ...

We are the universe perceiving itself ... the universe aware of it's own existence and in regards to the human experience - we are like some kind of existential substratum. I state this because it is irrefutable that we are inextricably apart of the universe; atomically ... well according to our current understanding. The antiquated version of god is fatuous with it's many attributions which could not be possible to ascribe to humanity, however ponder long enough we do share some.

This is rather an arbitrary opinion and we all are cognizant of our own ignorance, but who knows right - perhaps truth is ineffable.

Originally Posted by kadie

I used to blindly believe in a God in the heavens, then I began to believe that God is the energy of the universe. I have my own conclusion now, but I am very interested in hearing others feelings, points of view and philosophy on the subject.

This is so interesting choice of words 'blindly believe' like you were ignorant before, but now you have your 'own conclusion' (and this goes for others having the same view) I think you were better off on your first premise of God as an actual being! Anyone who says this I see as having gone backwards! Brainwashed.

I'm quite cynical of people who think they have it all figured out, particularly when they oppose scripture. It's the ultimate form of disrespect to what has been established and written in blood throughout the centuries. That's my 'feelings and point of view, and philosophy' lol. It's not really any good having 'feelings of philosophy' as much as pure objective strength of faith that is given to you by grace alone.

Call me deluded....but if anyone needs a good wake up call.....I'd only be too glad to be the one to give it to you, and anyone else that falls down this pantheistic ditch of apathy and intellectual sloth.

I know about evil. I know the secret spaces that it hides behind, and the way that it hides. Evil is so cowardly the way it tries to hide behind lies and all kinds of crap! I take pleasure on shinning a light on it. If you think black magic is harsh or bizaree, you have not seen what it's like for something to come so directly from the king without the nonsense. No amount of sorcery can compare with the sheer terror that the Lord can bring.

The Word is a done deal. It's not disputable, it's not reversible, it's not erasable. It's just inevitable.

Well that was weird.

Thank God, I feared I wouldn't find a single weird post in this thread. Now the question is, who am I thanking this to?

Originally Posted by Deanstar

I'm quite cynical of people who think they have it all figured out.....

I know about evil. I know the secret spaces that it hides behind, and the way that it hides. Evil is so cowardly the way it tries to hide behind lies and all kinds of crap! I take pleasure on shinning a light on it. If you think black magic is harsh or bizaree, you have not seen what it's like for something to come so directly from the king without the nonsense. No amount of sorcery can compare with the sheer terror that the Lord can bring.

are you cynical of yourself?

Blind belief is what most children of religious families grow up in. So yes, it was ignorance until I became of an age and mind set to come to my own conclusions. I very much like tropicalbreezes question to you. Are you cynical of yourself? Do you have it all figured out or do you STILL blindly follow what others tell you?

It really cracks me up at this point in my life to imagine and angry white bearded man with a book of everyone's wrongs and rights written down for quick reference so a punishment or reward can be doled out. What is more hilarious is to sit straight faced when a religious crank/ crackpot seriously explain what GOD is and how they know it to be true. Now I wont disrespect someone who believes it and chooses to live their life with that belief, because it is after all that persons prerogative. However, I wont be shamed for my belief either.
So it was written in blood, so it must be true right?

Actually, this person looks like a troll, just signed up and all so I'll just leave it at this.

When I was in college I took a Humanities course and the final was a paper where you had to choose a leader of some sort and expand on the qualities you felt made them a good leader.

At the time I think I was still calling myself an atheist. But in private I was reading all kinds of religious...literature, scripture whatever you wanna call it. Because it interested me, the effect this idea of god(s) has had on humanity over and over again. It's called by many names but, like it or not, I feel it is diffcult to deny the impact it has had.

So I wrote my paper about what I called "Jesus as a Revolutionary". Because to me he seemed like the most unlikely yet most obvious choice. I liked that he challenged what he saw to be corrupt, at a time when much less I imagine was punishable by death. He refused, in a sense to fall in line. Jesus did things that were downright scandalous.

And the thing I enjoy most about Christianity is this idea, about a regular guy that somehow changed the world. He wasn't a god, he was a human being. Born into a world full of black and white and little else, as I see it.

And he had this crazy idea that heaven is now...not some physical place, not some future afterlife. I think that perhaps it was this idea, more than the man behind it, that eventually changed the world.

The fact that scripture depicts him as paying the ultimate price for it makes sense to me, and so does (to an extent) the apparent desire for believers to see him as more of a god-like figure than a human one. But I feel this desire obscures the truth somehow.

I don't need for him to be born of a virgin, or rise from the dead...I dont even need for him to be the "son of god" in order to appreciate something about his story. Whether it's 100% fictional or not.

The idea of god is, to me very similar in that I recognize that it is essentially what I, and countless other people make of it. And I suspect that this is at least part of the reason why humans seem so endlessly fascinated and also completely at odds about what "god" means.

Some folks might prefer to leave the concept of god outside the equation entirely, but I prefer discussions such as this where variance is not only allowed, but also appreciated.


/likes this entire thread